God is Jesus; Jesus is God

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by CrypticSouthpaw

 

I thought i made it somewhat clear that the 4 elements wind fire water and earth all get streched apart and ripped into black energy, it pulls it into a singularity.

Can't really get into all of that since I don't believe in the building blocks of it, to start with, so could never agree with the conclusion built out of them, no matter what it might be.

Wind ( gases) fire (light and sparks heat) earth (metals and physical matter) water (all elements in the liquid state)

The 5th element is dark matter. All 4 physical state elements wind fire water and earth are crushed into the 5th element black energy. Later to be turned into black matter else where. This is caused because a sun is constantly absorbing asteroids and debris. It gets bigger overtime based on the matter that is absorbed.
Including light and everythng else. So, eventually it gets so big it must crush all the matter into a singularity. Huge masses of the 4 elements can be compressed into a tiny dot. These tiny dots encompas out universe. This is the blackness the darkness. The unseen energy. Do not be fooled by the light. It is just one of the 4 elements. Tho the light is a very holy physical state. So is darkness. Any of the 2 states are a reprisentation of the physical and non physical states. Physical light and non physical darkness.

Our creator is made of such black energy. The very essence of the universe. They appear as black energy beings. Imagine. That one of their cells made of black matter holds enough matter to create planets. To convert into seas.

Such power and purity tends to overwhelm men. The feeling of being in the presence of these beings is like having your addrenalin run in synch with the visualizations. Ontop of that It was a pure terror, a dread unlike any other. It was not coming from me tho i had wonder and amazement and awe. It was projecting this fear at me. But i just stood there. And moments later the feeling deminished and i was hit with a wave of comfort. It was bidding me to watch. And so i did. I recived a cryptic message from the shapeshifter. It showed me what was going to happen in the future. There will be a great happening. When the pleiades come for the children.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I'm not talking about it being as old as the writing of Isaiah.
I'm talking about as old as the actual events, as in the formation of the church by the disciples. By the time the gospels were written, decades later, the idea that Jesus was part of the godhead would have been already entrenched.

The word "godhead" is not in the bible... Also theres nothing in the entire book that says the Messiah will be God in the flesh or part of any tri-unity of the ONE God. Furthermore there is nothing that says the Holy spirit is part of said Godhead or trinity of this One God who is actually three...

The only way one can arrive at such conclusions is by listening to what others say...

The others being "preachers"... IF one has no influences from said preachers... one would never arrive at the conclusion that there is a trinity by reading the bible... as I've said that was added to the religion 200+ some odd years later.

Can you cite what that "outside influence" is that you believe created the idea of the divinity of Jesus?

I didn't say there was an outside influence which created his divinity... His divinity was never in question...

There are people who try to say that the New Testament says that, by taking the end of verse 15 and adding it to the middle of verse 16 (while skipping the beginning) in 1 Timothy 3, to make basically a new verse that superficially looks like it says that.

Obviously you know where the "God in the flesh" idea came from... The mind of John, not the words of Jesus

More than that, Jesus said he was sent "out from the Father", and means to me that he was at one time 'part' of God, literally an offspring. If that does not make you god, then I don't know what does.

Basically saying we are all literally gods... which can be referenced by Jesus quoting Psalm 82... Now I've also heard the argument where that particular passage is referring to the kings of the world... so its argued that they only are children of God... which personally I think is a giant load of you know what...

I don't know about "created" but where it was articulated was in Colossians, where it is describing Jesus as being completely qualified, and lacking nothing that would make him a competent member of the godhead.

Regardless... as I've said previously... Godhead is not a term from that time... Nor is trinity

Offer up your own definition of a person. I would say it is someone who is conscious of being an individual.

Personally I would say that and add something that is flesh and bone... Not pure spirit

That is why the Gospel of John was written, to make sure no one misses the fact that Jesus was God

I've heard lots of reasons that Christians give as to why John was written, and I don't agree with any of them... Some say it was written to refute the Gnostics as well... Personally I believe John was written because there were very few people who actually knew Jesus left in the world... and John wanted to leave his testimony of him before he died...

It most definitely was not written to make sure people knew he was God... because the book refutes the idea more then any other gospel. And the words of one follower (Thomas) doesn't clear anything up...

the Old Testament sense, where you had this angel, Yahweh, the OT calls him, going around talking as if he was God Himself.
If you want to say this Yahweh character is or was God, then so is Jesus because he is filling the same role, talking for God, and representing God, and making it known that there is no other way to God but through him.

Actually I think this Yahweh character was a "fallen" angel... posing as God... Possibly "the god of the dead" which Jesus spoke of...

If Paul "invented" Christianity, as you claim, then how could he have not had a hand in writing the Gospels? Those are the founding documents of the Christian religion.

I highly doubt it... As you just said, his letters ARE the founding documents of the religion... Not the gospels, they seem to be a side note.

It's the doom of Judaism, who had their chance and failed, to be replaced by a new group to enter God's Kingdom, the one he was commissioning through his disciples. The gospels serve that purpose to pronounce judgment on the system that was to fade away and to be abandoned by God.

Does that mean Judaism is dead?

There is only a couple of teachings by Jesus that could be considered peculiar to him. All of those are in Paul's writings

Yet he wrote about none of is actual teachings... aside from symbolic rituals... which he learned about from the actual followers of Jesus.

I think that the reason that you believe that is because whether you admit it to yourself or not, you believe that Acts is real history.

Nope... as I've said before, I use 4 books from the bible... I don't consider acts anything more then a story...

Speaking of which... Its said from acts that the "holy spirit" came to the apostles, and they started speaking in tongues etc etc.... was it a person that came to them and presented himself, or was it the wind as it actually says?

reply to post by jmdewey60

OK, then there is no book that Christianity was copied from.
There would have to be such a book in order for there to be a plagiarism that 'Christianity' was guilty of.

Book? Look in any history book documenting the religions and cultures of civilizations preceding Rome by thousands of years. Cultures boasting the same practices and symbols and beliefs that Christianity claims to have invented. Cultures that were stomped out during the rise of Christianity. It wouldn't be the first time we've seen such a thing happen, although never on quite so large a scale.

You could use another way of describing what you believe, that if you were to look through thousands of documents, you could take little scraps of text from here and there and organize them in such a way as to seem rather similar to Christianity.

I'm not talking about rearranging evidence to suit a theory. I'm talking about evidence that points directly to said theory. And the evidence strongly suggests that Jesus was not the first of his kind, that the Holy Trinity existed long before Christianity ever did and originated in places that would make a devout nun pull her hair in consternation, that the god of the Bible is an amalgamation of various gods seen throughout polytheistic history, and that every holy event and ritual recognized by the average Christian church was old before Jesus was born. Easter, Christmas, Ash Wednesday, Lent, the Sabbath, the Cross, baptism, the grail, the scepter, the crown, the robes, all of it. If Christians understood exactly how much of their traditions stem from druidic and wiccan practices, they would be horrified. Not that they should be. I have much more respect for the alchemical studies and gematria than I have ever had for the Christian system of worship.

But that's a story for another day.

reply to post by Akragon


@Akragon From my understanding of your posts, you are presenting the same argument as I am in supporting the trinity but using the way the bible and the teachings were interpreted at the time Jesus and shortly thereafter, If I am missing something please let me know.

Originally posted by mlcaponi
reply to post by Akragon

 

@Akragon From my understanding of your posts, you are presenting the same argument as I am in supporting the trinity but using the way the bible and the teachings were interpreted at the time Jesus and shortly thereafter, If I am missing something please let me know.

Im not supporting the trinity if that is what you mean...

Im saying there is nothing that supports a trinity or Godhead within what Jesus said....

Well, The Bible has certainly fulfilled its role....

Confusing everybody, so they don't know what's right or wrong anymore.

Arguing pedantics, as if someone could be right, even if they did "interpret" it correctly.

We have all been had,

always will be had as long as we continue to argue about words.


The Sun gives us life and we are 70% water.

Everything we eat and wear and build with comes from the earth.

Give praise to the sun for wrapping us in her orbit and keeping us warm,

for she is the light of the world.

Give thanks to the water you drink,

for this is our blood.

Respect the earth as your parent.

For we are stardust, born of explosions.

Look up from the book that blinds ye!

There is a whole universe of God out there.


Peace.

reply to post by Akragon

The word "godhead" is not in the bible...

Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
KJV

Also theres nothing in the entire book that says the Messiah will be God in the flesh or part of any tri-unity of the ONE God.

I already explained the "God in the flesh" as a deliberate misinterpretation.
Also I mentioned that trying to be 'monotheist' is to me a futile venture and a lot of energy was wasted in the past by the church, discussing and debating, in the attempt at supporting such a theory.
"God", as a term, naturally is all inclusive, when you look at how the Greeks used it around the time that the New Testament was written.
I also already stated my personal belief on the Trinity. There are three individuals who share the same attribute of being of the generic 'god' type, who work in concert for Man's salvation.

Furthermore there is nothing that says the Holy spirit is part of said Godhead or trinity of this One God who is actually three...

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

... one would never arrive at the conclusion that there is a trinity by reading the bible...

See comment above.

Obviously you know where the "God in the flesh" idea came from... The mind of John, not the words of Jesus

I don't know what you are talking about. "God in the flesh" sounds weird to me and I don't think the Bible teaches that.

Basically saying we are all literally gods... which can be referenced by Jesus quoting Psalm 82...

No. That is not what I meant at all. I said that Jesus said that he came "out" of the Father.

... Godhead is not a term from that time...

The word, godhead, is English, it is a translation from the Greek.
So? No, standard English did not exist when the New Testament was originally written.

something that is flesh and bone...

That is not the definition of 'person' when it was decided that there were three persons in the Trinity. To understand the church's doctrine, you have to accept their definitions long enough to get through the document.
I think your biggest problem is never quite understanding the concepts of reading.

reply to post by Akragon

Does that mean Judaism is dead?

I think what goes by that name today is something quite different than what ended. That was the idea that a god called Yahweh lived in a building on Zion and had to be served by priests and given offerings to.
Obviously, that thing is dead.
Of course there are people trying to revive it but God is not behind it.

Yet he wrote about none of his actual teachings... aside from symbolic rituals... which he learned about from the actual followers of Jesus.

What did he leave out, and how do you know he had to learn those from Jesus' disciples?
Paul suggests that he was given information on them directly by Jesus.

.. Its said from acts that the "holy spirit" came to the apostles, and they started speaking in tongues etc etc.... was it a person that came to them and presented himself, or was it the wind as it actually says?

I explained that, where it is found in two forms in the Greek and it comes out the same in the English translation. In the case you mention, it is the one that is a spirit which happens to be holy.

If a mountain was carved of the face of a man. How would a man be a god?

Now that i have your attention. Leviathans.

Worry about yourselves. Rabble rabble rabble

Reptillians are here. Prepare yourselves and read what i have said.

To everyone else who has read and learned from what i have said. Congrats

To everyone else. /facepalm.