Why Is Socialism Doing So Darn Well in Deep-Red North Dakota?

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posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 04:29 AM
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Originally posted by Bluesma

You made many claims of what I am, what I think, what I feel, none correct nor having any basis in what I posted.
Why don't you just leave behind all the characterizations of my personality and just refer to the subject of discussion.


So, you did not make the assertion that socialism works well with capitalism, and that it is working great in countries like France? Despite the massive unemployment, the yearly riots in France, Europe and some other countries?

BTW, socialist websites will try to confuse you by claiming that under socialism private property and personal property are two different things, and when they want to abolish private property they are only talking about land, the means of production, resources, and equipment that can create wealth...


Myth #1: Socialists want to take away your property

This myth confuses private property with personal property. When socialists talk about the abolition of private property, they are referring to the socialization of the means of production—the resources and equipment that create wealth. Working people do not own this type of property—which is why we have to work to survive.
...

www.pslweb.org...

Except for the fact that there is no difference, since personal property IS private property... Not to mention that not all houses are the same size, some have more rooms than others, some have bigger backyards and more land, and many people do grow their own food and sell food without being large farmers. Heck, you can take a loan on your house and the value won't be the same to many other houses.



Originally posted by Bluesma
I did not claim that this country was a socialist one. I will repeat my argument once again - There is virtually no nations with a pure form of any system. There are, however, countries which mix aspects of capitalism and socialism together.
That was my original assertion, in response to yours, that it is "impossible" to do that. I say it is possible and that it is exists.


And look at what is happening as we speak. A worldwide economic crisis, the power is shifting more and more to the elites, and the world is getting closer and closer to a One World socialist/fascist government. There is Agenda 21 on the books in which they want to take away people's land and instead seclude every living person, except the elites of course, inside cities with very limited space.

I am not talking about a "possible" future, this is exactly what is planned, and they have been succeeding because of socialist ideals, because under socialism the state/those in power, will have all control. There are no checks and balances under socialism, since it is implied that "the people are in power" when in fact we are not.




Originally posted by Bluesma
There are virtually NO nations which has a pure form of any system. (whether we're talking Capitalism, Socialism, Communism....) And there never HAS been. The reason is that these are ideologies- they are not realistic.

Ideologies are not compatible with reality, and suffer mutations between theory and practice.


You are wrong on that part. There are many branches of socialism which have been implemented fully. The problem is that what people believe, and the reality of socialism, even on paper, are two different things.

For example. Socialists love to claim that under socialism the people own and control the means of production(there used to be a time when everyone knew that under socialism the means of production was owned and controlled by the state and some dictionaries still have the old definition, but socialists are changing again the definition of socialism to lure those who would believe it is a great system), but in fact socialism itself states that no person can own and control the means of production, just read the excerpt I posted above which comes directly from a socialist website.

You see, meanwhile socialists claim one thing, in fact another thing entirely different happens, and then when what they claimed would happen doesn't happen, they say "we haven't really tried socialism anywhere"...


edit on 2-4-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 04:46 AM
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You only can think in extremes?

A regulated system of market based social democracy sure is very hard to balance and vulnerable to protests, but in my opinion the only way to a society where everybody has the same chances to live up to his potential.

In most countries in Europe you don't get charged individually for healthcare and education. You can go to any hospital and get treated, you can go to most universities for free or a small fee compared to the costly models in the USA.

As an employer you want well educated healthy employees. You can't build an university just to get the three engineers you need for a certain project.
If you have government controlled competitive healthcare added to the free market system, the free market is controlled by a regulated free market government option. If now the government option is cheaper, the pure private companies have to raise the benefits or lower the rates of their plans.

I can see no disadvantage if you give everybody at least the right to live healthy and educated.


In terms of banking:

A traditional bank which gives out credits to small and medium businesses or individuals, has to calculate risks and invest wisely. They do what they are supposed to. Help out businesses which have great potential but need money to invest in growth.
This adds a social aspect to banking.

They have to be efficient and make profits, too, but they are doing what all banks actually should do. Invest in real existing businesses and not just nanosecond algorithym trade some wierd derivatives.

edit on 2-4-2013 by pjfry because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 04:57 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


The world is under crisis because of capitalists and their greed... especially bankers

You may bring all kinds of excuses, yet the fact is that USA is the most capitalist society among the other developed larger countries and they are not doing well at all. Huge debt, while52,7% of people working under corporations. That creates a situation where corporations have too much power of people. They are killing the small business sector (US has the lowest among other leading countries).Wealth gaps is too large. On the other hand, the most socialistic societies like the Nordic countries are in the strongest position financially among developed countries in Europe and USA. They have free education, free healthcare, very strong social benefits on the expense of very high taxes, especially on the upper class, and yet, they are not in debt as badly as other developed countries. Personal property is strongly protected there. People are happier, healthier, better educated.

www.economist.com...

globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com...

Everything is not black and white - capitalism and socialism, left and right. There is a midway, which is the best for everybody, as everybody wins. I hope in the future countries will take example from the Nordics and more companies will start being people-based. Positions still would exist with different salaries, yet shares and dividends are equally distributed among employees. There are several very strong companies around the world using that model. Again a mix between all. Everybody do not have equal salary, yet the CEO does not earn 100x or even 1000x more than the low-level workers. It is not simply fair. Capitalism creates inequality. Something must simply raise the minimal salary and lower the salaries in the top. Theoretically it would the best, if the difference between top and bottom is up to 10x, not more, yet it has gone way too out of hand recently, especially in the USA.

Please do not take stand, if have no clue what you are talking about. You know nothing about France or the issues there. You simply take stand based on what you have heard the media, nothing else. No personal experience. I would not be surprised if you had never even visited Europe...
edit on 2-4-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-4-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:12 AM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


This is exactly why everyone in the US should think about, why the word social is transformed into "socialist" or "communist" in some corners of the media, or why somebody has a "socialist" agenda?

Who fears regulations, unions and a public, which isn't divided but working together on problems.

edit on 2-4-2013 by pjfry because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 06:00 AM
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Originally posted by Cabin

The world is under crisis because of capitalists and their greed... especially bankers


Wrong, greed has NOTHING to do with capitalism... And again, look at the facts. Progressive democrats gave power to the Federal Reserve, giving power over the economy of the United States to the international banksters.

Now, if it was true that the elites were capitalists, why did they create the World Bank, the central bank that is the Federal Reserve, the international Monetary Fund, the UN, and why are they proposing nothing but socialist ideals? such as the abolition of private property through Agenda 21? Giving more power, including regulatory power, to not only the U.S. leftwing government, but to the UN?...

I am not the one making the excuses, people like you are. The United States stopped being a capitalist society since progressive Democrats implemented the Federal reserve, and the IRS with it's progressive taxes, those two things they implemented are even part of the communist manifesto...



1.Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2.A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3.Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4.Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5.Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6.Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7.Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8.Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9.Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country.
10.Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form and combination of education with industrial production.[15]
...

en.wikipedia.org...

BTW, I do know to some of you most of the above "sounds like heaven", but you have to read what Marx and Engels themselves stated about these planks to know "the small paragraphs that are not as widely known by would be communists and socialists"...

For example, there is no true free education, even under socialism, children must work for the state during summers at least, for free in labor camps. You have to read the fact that Marx and Engel only CLAIM that they prohibit children working in factories, and in labor camps, which is why in communist countries like Cuba, children from the age of 12-13 years old children work for free for the state in labor camps living under conditions that you wouldn't want even your dog to live in.



Written: by Marx at the end of August 1866;
First published: in Der Vorbote Nos. 10 and 11, October and November 1866 and The International Courier Nos. 6/7, February 20, and Nos. 8/10, March 13, 1867;
Translated: by Barrie Selman;
Transcribed: by director@marx.org, April 1996.
...
4.
Juvenile and children's labour (both sexes)

We consider the tendency of modern industry to make children and juvenile persons of both sexes co-operate in the great work of social production, as a progressive, sound and legitimate tendency, although under capital it was distorted into an abomination. In a rational state of society every child whatever, from the age of 9 years, ought to become a productive labourer in the same way that no able-bodied adult person ought to be exempted from the general law of nature, viz.: to work in order to be able to eat, and work not only with the brain but with the hands too.

However, for the present, we have only to deal with the children and young persons of both sexes divided into three classes, to be treated differently [a]; the first class to range from 9 to 12; the second, from 13 to 15 years; and the third, to comprise the ages of 16 and 17 years. We propose that the employment of the first class in any workshop or housework be legally restricted to two; that of the second, to four; and that of the third, to six hours. For the third class, there must be a break of at least one hour for meals or relaxation.
...

www.marxists.org...

You will find in EVERY communist country similar labor camps for children, and that's how their "education" which is more indoctrination and brainwashing is paid for...

edit on 2-4-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by Cabin
...
Please do not take stand, if have no clue what you are talking about. You know nothing about France or the issues there. You simply take stand based on what you have heard the media, nothing else. No personal experience. I would not be surprised if you had never even visited Europe...
edit on 2-4-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-4-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)


I actually lived in Europe, Spain and Portugal for almost 10 years... I still have family, friends, ex-girlfriends etc there with most of whom I still talk to, or write to.

I also know for a fact, because I saw it, that the media in Europe LOVE to either keep quiet, or barely touch events happening in your countries. It is not like in the U.S. that if a person murders another with a gun you hear it in the news day in and day out for weeks without stop... This makes many Europeans think the U.S. is hell and Europe is heaven in comparison...


edit on 2-4-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by pjfry
...
I can see no disadvantage if you give everybody at least the right to live healthy and educated.
...


Except for the fact that as government takes control of education, and healthcare, they force people to do things against their will "for the good of all"...

Education controlled by the state in actuality becomes indoctrination and brainwashing. Not that long ago we saw a video of school children from the UK being recorded to "love the Earth more than themselves" to the point that the children were saying that if their deaths helped "save the planet" they would die happily... And they said this with a smile on their faces...

Europeans have forgotten what free choice means, and the ability of people to decide how their money is spent, and how to live their lives whether completely healthy or not so healthy. If people, such as Americans, want to keep our right to decide about healthcare and don't want to accept the European model we are labeled as "cold and without compassion"...

Most Europeans, and even other people, have been so brainwashed that they want the rest of the world to be like them, to be nothing more than robots.

To this day I still think that abortion is the murder of innocent human life, but the human fetus has been devalued, and in Europe this has worked incredibly well, and now they want "Americans to stop being barbarians and become civilized like Europeans"...


I have seen members in this website make such claims, and those of you who think this way can't understand that you have been indoctrinated to think like that through the so wonderful "educational system you have", and which in reality it isn't so wonderful.

"For the good of all" dictatorships have been formed in the past, and entire nations lost their individual rights "for the good of all"... Yet we are being told once again by those of you who have swallowed the cool-aid that "as long as it is for the good of all, nothing else matters"...



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 06:31 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

So, you did not make the assertion that socialism works well with capitalism, and that it is working great in countries like France? Despite the massive unemployment, the yearly riots in France, Europe and some other countries?


I made the assertion that some aspects of socialism and some of capitalism, are both operating together in France, and without conflict with each other.

I did not say "socialism is great! '"
I did not say "Socialism is what America needs!"
I did not claim that the system in France is perfect and without it's own weaknesses and challenges. A conflict between capitalism and socialism just isn't one of them.
Your repeated characterizations of what I think and feel are tiresome- just read exactly what I wrote!
No reason to add or elaborate according to your imagination.


Trying "many different branches" is not implicating successfully a "pure" form, as you called it.

Having it not work out, in practice, as the original "pure" theory expects is EXACTLY what I refer to when I speak of the unrealistic nature of ideologies.

Yes, the human nature and it's appetites for power become an element of mutation whenever a seemingly "ideal" system is put into practice- that includes Socialism. But because you figure that out about one system is no logical reason to then jump to idealizing ANOTHER instead!

Ayn Rand, for example saw the way Communism was carried out by humans and so decided to instead idealize Capitalism- "extreme collectivism is screwed up, so extreme individualism must be the ticket!"

*slaps head* Uh yeah sure, 'cause like, in that system, humans will cease to feel drawn towards corruption and abuse of power, of course! Jezus H Christ..... learn a lesson and move on, why don't ya?

My choice is to just drop hopes for heaven, fears of hell, and just be here, now, on earth with feet firmly planted on it.


edit on 2-4-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

...
I also know for a fact, because I saw it, that the media in Europe LOVE to either keep quiet, or barely touch events happening in your countries. It is not like in the U.S. that if a person murders another with a gun you hear it in the news day in and day out for weeks without stop... This makes many Europeans think the U.S. is hell and Europe is heaven in comparison...




What are you talking about???

I have lived in several countries across Europe, mainly in the Central, Northern and North-East area. Murders get lots of attention, although the amount murders is much less, that is why there is less media activity on that. Things are not ignored, there simply is not that many violent crimes to mention in the news. Events in an area always get covered and violent murders on innocent people get lots of attention.

90% of murders in the area where I live, are simply when somebody knived someone in a drunk fight. We don´t have shootings or things like that, maybe 1 person is shot in a month and even that is some drunkards fighting. Nearly nobody has guns in this area. Violent crimes on innocent people are always covered in depth, that is a fact and they get even too much attention as negative news sell.

You can not take Europe as a whole. It is simply ignorance. Spain and France are like USA and Mexico. Different people, different cultures, different languages. Every nation is different from each other, so even thinking that Europeans have similar mindset is stupidity. Every nation must be taken separately.

Nobody said Europe is heaven, USA is hell. I have nothing against USA.
edit on 2-4-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 07:08 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


You don't get it. Just because there is a government option doesn't mean that you don't have the right to choose freely if you don't want it. You can make private healthcare contracts, you can send your children to private schools or universities.

You think that the control of very rich people over the government has nothing to do with deregulation, destroying of unions and low taxation of multi national companies? The USA in 2013 is run by Goldman Sachs, Monsanto, Koch Industries, Nestle, Exxon, Shell... Oil, Phamaceutics, Chemical, Financial and Military Industry. They have their people, where they can decide upon laws. There is no general conspiracy, they are just a bunch of very rich people who only look out for themselves, corrupting the whole system.

Monsanto doesn't care about the gun regulation, but they make sure that the FDA works in favour of their business model.

The USA and to a certain extend the EU has only a democratic shell on the outside, whith politicians running around, trying to figure out a way to get out of the grip of gigantic coorporations which act worldwide cherrypicking the best businessmodels in every country.

Planning and Thinking in the USA and Europe, working in Asia, taxing on a caribean island or non at all.

What I learned in school was critical thinking. Always ask questions and never trust any opinion without making your own research and think about it. Teachers always mentioned to be critical and an active Democrat. I don't consider european education as brainwashing.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by mbkennel


You don't understand it. In the Communist manifesto, the central bank is the only bank. That's what it means by "exclusive monopoly".

The USA, and every other mixed capitalist country, have a central bank whose clients are the government and other banks and serve their needs.
edit on 1-4-2013 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)


And the Federal Reserve doesn't have exclusive monopoly?... It doesn't print the dollar that they created?... They weren't the one who through other "progressive democrat presidents" even banned the gold and silver standard so that people would use the economy created by the Feds?...


The Feds is a central bank.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by pjfry

You don't get it. Just because there is a government option doesn't mean that you don't have the right to choose freely if you don't want it. You can make private healthcare contracts, you can send your children to private schools or universities.
...


You are the one that doesn't get it. As an example, Obamacare is FORCING private companies to charge people $1 U.S. dollar which pays for the abortion of women who want to have it. Yeah, it is just one dollar, but that dollar is being used to murder human fetus most of which were not created by incest or rape. Whether you agree, or not on the human value of a human fetus, the leftwinger point of view is being forced on the rest of us, since we have to pay for abortion, which is nothing more than murder, whether we want to or not. How is that free choice?...



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by pjfry
...
I can see no disadvantage if you give everybody at least the right to live healthy and educated.
...


Except for the fact that as government takes control of education, and healthcare, they force people to do things against their will "for the good of all"...

Education controlled by the state in actuality becomes indoctrination and brainwashing. Not that long ago we saw a video of school children from the UK being recorded to "love the Earth more than themselves" to the point that the children were saying that if their deaths helped "save the planet" they would die happily... And they said this with a smile on their faces...

Europeans have forgotten what free choice means, and the ability of people to decide how their money is spent, and how to live their lives whether completely healthy or not so healthy. If people, such as Americans, want to keep our right to decide about healthcare and don't want to accept the European model we are labeled as "cold and without compassion"...

Most Europeans, and even other people, have been so brainwashed that they want the rest of the world to be like them, to be nothing more than robots.

To this day I still think that abortion is the murder of innocent human life, but the human fetus has been devalued, and in Europe this has worked incredibly well, and now they want "Americans to stop being barbarians and become civilized like Europeans"...


I have seen members in this website make such claims, and those of you who think this way can't understand that you have been indoctrinated to think like that through the so wonderful "educational system you have", and which in reality it isn't so wonderful.

"For the good of all" dictatorships have been formed in the past, and entire nations lost their individual rights "for the good of all"... Yet we are being told once again by those of you who have swallowed the cool-aid that "as long as it is for the good of all, nothing else matters"...



Again, Europe is not a whole. Every nation is different, like USA and Mexico are different from each other.

Overally I can say on average you get stronger education in any European country than in USA. I have met US highschool teachers who believe Europe is a country.... The education systems are much stronger and that is why people are healthier. Nobody makes you do it. It is still free choice, but most people are simply smart enough to not become obese,because they want to live longer. They also try to think more on the consequences of their actions instead of blindly doing stupidity simply because they can and think on it first.

The health care thing is a different area. I personally do not get it either. So many would rather pay extreme health bills and have to keep an eye on their insurance, rather than put the small percentage of salary together and using it for everybody. I prefer giving the small % of my salary to the country and know that whatever happens, I still get good care without having to care about any bill and the same is for my children. Even when I do not on this particular year, someone else does, who is in need. It is helpful to society overally, when people care about each other more and everybody is not only in for themselves. In my mind, I truly believe that stronger must help the weaker ones, not the opposite or everybody fights for themself only. I love that everybody has the same opportunity for gaining higher education without having to put thought, whether your family can afford it or not.

Your ignorance is simply intolerable. Truly disturbing, stupid person. It was truly insulting post you made...
edit on 2-4-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Capitalism nowadays is all about greed. Are you saying corporations are socialist? The only thing they care about is maximising profits, nothing more. Moral standards mean nothing, anything by law is tolerable and they try to lobby themselves the laws they want, like Monsanto got. In large corporations only the top guys win, everybody else is left out from the profits. That creates inequality. I am not saying everybody has to be equal, but nobody should earn even 100 times more than another person, as it is simply impossible timewise to do 100 times more work.

It is all about greed and power, getting as much capital and resources as possible, whatever way possible. And that is capitalism... Stronger using the weak to get even stronger.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by Cabin

What are you talking about???

I have lived in several countries across Europe, mainly in the Central, Northern and North-East area. Murders get lots of attention, although the amount murders is much less, that is why there is less media activity on that. Things are not ignored, there simply is not that many violent crimes to mention in the news. Events in an area always get covered and violent murders on innocent people get lots of attention.
...


Really? so they are covering the fact that crimes with guns have exponentially increased in countries like the UK since the gun ban?...


The figures, compiled from reports released by the European Commission and United Nations, also show:

The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU.
It has a higher homicide rate than most of our western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
The UK has the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU.
It has the fourth highest burglary rate and the highest absolute number of burglaries in the EU, with double the number of offences than recorded in Germany and France.

But it is the naming of Britain as the most violent country in the EU that is most shocking. The analysis is based on the number of crimes per 100,000 residents.

In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.


www.liveleak.com...

Shall we talk about the rapes that young women in parts of France have to endure because of the Muslim gangs that would rape any woman they see in the streets without a burka and or veil?...

muslimrapewave.wordpress.com...

Crimes in general have exponentially increased even in Europe, and crimes with guns as well have increased despite the ban on guns...

This is more proof that banning firearms doesn't stop criminals and crazies from getting their hands on firearms, only the law abiding cannot defend herself/himself because of such draconian anti-gun laws....



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Looking at statistics, gun violence is much more rare in Europe than in USA on average. Same is about rapes and homicides.

Intentional homicides in USA is around 6x larger per 100 000 people than in most European countries.

The France raping is serious, they have strong immigration problems, too many immigrants coming in, it has gotten lots of media coverage. Yet you are highly overhyping it. 3 rapes in a year does not mean any woman who dares to walk by is being raped... Statistically in USA 29 women of 100k were raped, in France 16,2 in 2008. It is still too high though and such thing must be taken care of. Although it seems as if in USA it is a larger problem.

Please do not bring up any such statistics. You are trying to bring down the "bad" Europe with your statistics for trying to prove that the social policies there are evil, yet statistically speaking in USA crimes happen much more often.
edit on 2-4-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by Cabin

Looking at statistics, gun violence is much more rare in Europe than in USA on average. Same is about rapes and homicides.

Intentional homicides in USA is around 6x larger per 100 000 people than in most European countries.


Yet people like you continue to ignore the fact that most of the crimes with guns, and crimes in general in the United States happen in states and cities where guns are either completely banned, or heavily restricted... Cities like Detroit, and New York have the most crimes, and these are the cities where most crimes with guns occur despite the bans on guns and firearms... Yet we are being told that having all cities in the states follow the lead of New York and Detroit will lower gun violence...


Not to mention the fact that AFTER the gun ban in countries like the UK for example, crimes with firearms/guns have increased exponentially.

What people like you can't understand is that CRIMINALS and CRAZIES do not follow laws. There is a black market for weapons in every country, and laws will not stop this black market. Laws restricting and banning firearms will only disarm the law abiding citizens and make us more prone to being attacked by CRIMINALS and CRAZIES...



Originally posted by Cabin
The France raping is serious, they have strong immigration problems, too many immigrants coming in, it has gotten lots of media coverage. Yet you are highly overhyping it. 3 rapes in a year does not mean any woman who dares to walk by is being raped... Statistically in USA 29 women of 100k were raped, in France 16,2 in 2008. It is still too high though and such thing must be taken care of. Although it seems as if in USA it is a larger problem.


Really?...


Muslim gang-rapes across Europe under-reported in press

High profile-gang rapes in India have been in the headlines since December. The phenomenon is growing across Europe too, but tends to be under reported due to the high incidence of Muslim perpetrators which makes it politically incorrect to mention.

In December 2011 a Swedish mother-of-two was subjected to a brutal gang-rape by 12 Afghan immigrants in a refugee camp in Mariannelund. Reports stated "The rape was oral, anal and vaginal sometimes with three rapists inside her at the same time while everybody was cheering and clapping. The gruesome rape marathon lasted for 7 hours. 11 suspect may have been involved taking turns while drinking and getting high on drugs. The asylum seekers were cheering and clapping their hands during the rape marathon while calling the victim "whore" and "slut"."

According to Vimmerby Tidning "The woman went into shock while the rapes were still underway, and has since been in a heavily traumatised state. She is now subject to nightmares and panic attacks, and lives in a psychiatric clinic. She is bound to a wheelchair due to damages to her abdomen, and suffers from faecal incontinence."

The main perpetrator Rafi Bahaduri, 25, had already committed four other rapes in Sweden. The case is not unique. There is a growing trend of gang-rapes perpetrated against white women by Muslim rapists.

In the U.K. there has been a steady stream of cases where primarily under- privileged young English girls have been targeted, groomed and raped by gangs of what the British press euphemistically refers to as Asian men. However, the published names of the perpetrators are primarily of Pakistan and Afghanistan origin when the gang rapists appear in court. The Asian gangs do not contain rapists from China, Japan, and the Philippines.
...
More and more cases are reported across Europe. The following is just a very small sample (some figures indicate 5,000 gang-rapes occur in France alone each year.)
...

digitaljournal.com...






Originally posted by Cabin
Please do not bring up any such statistics. You are trying to bring down the "bad" Europe with your statistics for trying to prove that the social policies there are evil, yet statistically speaking in USA crimes happen much more often.


Because of the "political correct' ambience in Europe crime figures are greatly under reported by the media. You have to read the stories by the women who make the reports of their rapes online through blogs to find out the truth the media in Europe is trying to hide.

I could post videos of women in European countries speaking the truth about the gang rapes in Europe, but they are found in blogs, the regular media would not dare to report, or post these videos, and because of the T&C I cannot post those links, but you can search for them yourself and find the truth.

Anyway, don't want to derail the thread anymore.

Many of the "social programs" that leftwingers claim are "socialist" are NOT socialist, and were not intended to be originally.
edit on 2-4-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: add comments.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

2.A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.


You don't even understand what the term 'progressive' or 'tax' mean in this context. You hear the word 'progressive' and react like a three year old that doesn't like peas because someone told him something bad about them. No understanding, no experience, no sense at all just reaction to a word. Not a concept, a word.
.
And making the words bigger, doesn't make it true either - just shriller.

edit on 2-4-2013 by FyreByrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

BTW, socialist websites will try to confuse you by claiming that under socialism private property and personal property are two different things, and when they want to abolish private property they are only talking about land, the means of production, resources, and equipment that can create wealth...


Myth #1: Socialists want to take away your property

This myth confuses private property with personal property. When socialists talk about the abolition of private property, they are referring to the socialization of the means of production—the resources and equipment that create wealth. Working people do not own this type of property—which is why we have to work to survive.
www.pslweb.org...


Read the bloody definition - you quoted it - it's very clear that you don't understand the distinction. And you should not make up definitions - or limit them to one definition only (and Scientologists are wont to do). Different domains of knowlege use the same word to mean very different things and context adds another layer of subtlety.

Tree in the context of biology means a very different thing than tree in the context of computer science. Following your logic (sic) the directory tree of a computer would have to be oak or maple.
edit on 2-4-2013 by FyreByrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


>>> The big banks own both parties, the federal reserve owns the country. An independant bank wouldn't be bound to the parties so its apolitical.




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