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A Democracy Destroyed

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posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 09:29 AM
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Look at this farce known as the great stable american democracy


Before voting even began in Philadelphia -- poll watchers found nearly 2000 votes already planted on machines scattered throughout the city... One incident occurred at the SALVATION ARMY, 2601 N. 11th St., Philadelphia, Pa: Ward 37, division 8... pollwatchers uncovered 4 machines with planted votes; one with over 200 and one with nearly 500... A second location, 1901 W. Girard Ave., Berean Institute, Philadelphia, Pa, had 300+ votes already on 2 machines at start of day... INCIDENT: 292 votes on machine at start of day; WARD/DIVISION: 7/7: ADDRESS: 122 W. Erie Ave., Roberto Clemente School, Philadelphia, Pa.; INCIDENT: 456 votes on machine at start of day; WARD/DIVISION: 12/3; ADDRESS: 5657 Chew Ave., storefront, Philadelphia, Pa... Pennsylvania GOP filing suit in Court of Common Pleas to have machines in question impounded, replaced with machines that did not already have votes on them... MORE... A gun was purposely made visible to scare poll watchers at Ward 30, division 11, at 905 S. 20th St., Grand Court. Police were called and surrounded the location... Developing...


I feel sorry for the older folk who have watched the crap fall from the anus and have seen it slowly sink to the bottom of the toilet and quickly flushed away in these last few days. Our democracy is gone. I will not be surprised if this election is regarded as corrupted and fraudulent and does not count. Changes or revisions of constitution and analysis...who knows what will happen. I guess all we can do is wait. But these few hours of an early morning election day have proved our Democracy is no Destroyed.


[edit on 2-11-2004 by SomewhereInChina]

[edit on 2-11-2004 by dbates]




posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 09:33 AM
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Who were the votes for?

My guess is Kerry.

The DNC is destroying democracy in America.

Thanks Terry MacCauliffe/ Joe Lockhart. You scumbags.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by moxyone
Who were the votes for?

My guess is Kerry.

The DNC is destroying democracy in America.

Thanks Terry MacCauliffe/ Joe Lockhart. You scumbags.


They had good teachers. The Republicans are the best scumbags money can buy.

But I agree, the Dems have more than made up for lost time. If everyone is so "sick" of this crap, then why do they buy into it?



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 09:36 AM
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I think this was already covered in the following thread:

Voting Fraud Already?

EDIT: I suppose this is related more to the failure of democracy in America.

ATS Democracy Threads

[edit on 2-11-2004 by dbates]



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 09:54 AM
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Thank you very much for unlocking the forum. I hope we can have a thourough discussion looking at how this election is actually impacting democracy in the long run as well as the leadup to the election...i just talked with my wife who is not american about how we have never seen a day like this before, I believe this is democracy dying - where others may say it brings out high turnout it must be evidence of democracy, I strongly disagree

[edit on 2-11-2004 by SomewhereInChina]



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 10:05 AM
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I don't know if I would call it Democracy dying. It's just an example of how nothing that people make is without flaws. If you want to se an example of failed democracy, then look at Russia.


Is Russia's Experiment with Democracy Over?
In the wake of the terrorist siege of the school in southern Russia, in Beslan, President Putin announced two major political reforms. First is a reform of the way that deputies to the national lower house of parliament, the Duma, will be elected. In the past, half the deputies have been elected on proportional representation party lists and half were elected in individual constituencies by majority vote. Putin proposed that henceforth all parliament deputies should be elected by proportional representation.

The second key change that he proposed was that the regional governors, the governors of Russia's 89 regions, rather than being elected by the regional population as had occurred in the past, henceforth these were to be nominated by the president, subject to confirmation by the regional legislatures.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


It looks as if Russia is sliding back into it's old form of ruling. In the future the governors will be elected by parliament, and not by the people. Eventually, they may have no choice in who the President is either. I don't think this is the case in the United States.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 10:23 AM
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Throughout the day I am sure we will see many examples of our democracy washed away in the winds of change. I will be going to sleep in a half hour and waking up at 7 am Beijing time, by that time it should be about 6 or 7 pm on the east coast. I hope when I wake up we can have chronichled many of the abuses of today and be able to anaylze them further later.


Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Right now in midtown Manhattan, two people returned to the office attempting to vote, only to encounter "broken machines" at their precinct (2 different ones), where polling workers urged the voters to "just write down your vote, and we'll vote for you when the machines are fixed".

Amazing.

Needless to say, they left and didn't vote.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 10:41 AM
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Excuse me, SOC, but I dont think you would know a democracy if it hit you in the face.

To begin with, It is not proven that the above incident is evidence of vote fraud. There is a conflicting report that the these so called preloaded votes are just an internal counter registering the total lifetime votes that have been cast on the machines. Like the difference between your odometer and you trip mileage counter.

Vote fraud is nothing new in democracy. It happened back in the days of the Greek republics, it will happen today, and it will happen forty years from now. That is the problem with freedom. Some people just cant stop themselves from trying to abuse it.

On the other hand, It looks like this will be one of the highest voter turnouts in history. That, my friend, is the essence of a true democracy. No amount of vote fraud can change that.

Democracy in America is not dying, it is stronger than ever.

I would be much more concerned if there were no reports of abuse. That would mean that the system was totally under an external control. That would be the death of democracy.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark
Excuse me, SOC, but I dont think you would know a democracy if it hit you in the face.


And I'm sure you wouldn't know a cow pie if it hit you in the face because it all smells the same to you, good ol country lovin'

Glad you like it that way- but some day you will have to wake up and face the music of today's drama! It's a big play and you are dancing on the stage! Electoral voters choose our president, and they have the ability to be faithless voters and vote their personal conscious, not the majority of the people. Where is the democracy you talk of, there is no failsafe to ensure it. Sorry but America is a Republic and it has been hijacked, and today...we are seeing a first in America.

A drama to convince Americans their democracy is in danger...to wake them up to the fact it is dying....sorry bud, if I had a cow pie I would hit you in the face just for making such a retarded comment.

'you wouldn't know a democracy if it hit you in the face'



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 11:04 AM
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No, not democracy destroyed but human nature rearing its head. Emotions are running high. People are poised for drama.
I would'nt be surprised if the disenfranchised had their game plan fixed before today.
The 21st century doesn't have anything on fraud. People have commited voting fraud as long as there have been elections.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by SomewhereInChina
And I'm sure you wouldn't know a cow pie if it hit you in the face because it all smells the same to you, good ol country lovin'

Are you a US citizen? If so, have you voted?
Such strong feelings....are you hoping for the demise of the American republic?????????



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 11:10 AM
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How about the throwing of salt in the NJ school polling site....

The problem with your logic is that if it was a bomb or shootings in Afghanistan on the election day you would say there is no democracy, it's corrupted and people are intimidated to vote one way rather than another...

just because america is wacko in the head and people throw salt not make bombs and blow up people doesn't make it any different.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
The 21st century doesn't have anything on fraud. People have commited voting fraud as long as there have been elections.


EXACTLY. It's amazing how so many people ignorantly act like today's problems are all brand new in this generation. News flash -- they're not. You're just able to learn about so much more nowadays because well frankly, our methods of communication have improved just a little since the 1800s.

Quick to blame and ever so slow to solve the problems.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 11:11 AM
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I'm going to agree with HowarRoark on this one. The amount of voter turn out is a good indication that even if it's not perfect, democracy is in full effect here in the U.S. When was the last time you voted for the leader of China?

Cars break down, and crash sometimes but that doesn't mean that we don't drive cars or will quit using them. Do we abandon airplanes after one gets hijacked? Do we quit sending people into space after the first accident? Of course problems happen. Some of them are unforeseen and some are a result of people with ill intentions. Still we press on and keep driving our cars, keep flying in airplanes, and keep voting. Long live democracy!



*Don't' feed the trolls*



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 11:16 AM
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there is no democracy in america

the concept you think of as you having a handle on the kettle known as america is false

do you think major corporations and international conglomurates as well as world wide bodies would have their fate and their interests effected and sealed by a bunch of farmesr from tennessee and rednecks from oregon and wierdos from sedona and white trash from nevada........these are our common brethren, Americans. Love them or hate them, we are them and we have NO POWER??? What are you thinking man. You have the choice to vote and your vote doesn't mean anything. For once in the history of America - this election will wake them up to that fact...lets wait and see at the end of the day.....i'm sure we'll see the farce of democracy slapped in our faces....not the strenght of human nature rearing it's head in the face of adversity and the american people voting and getting what they voted for



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by SomewhereInChina
there is no democracy in america

the concept you think of as you having a handle on the kettle known as america is false

do you think major corporations and international conglomurates as well as world wide bodies would have their fate and their interests effected and sealed by a bunch of farmesr from tennessee and rednecks from oregon and wierdos from sedona and white trash from nevada.


Jeez, do you ride the train with John Rocker? Is there anyone you forgot to belittle?

Btw, those people you just listed are also the stockholders for the major corporations and international conglomurates (sic).



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by SomewhereInChina
there is no democracy in america the concept you think of as you having a handle on the kettle known as america is false


This is a nice example of Trolling. Kind of baiting with no intent towards real debate :shk:

So far aside from the empty rhetoric you have been posting forth and the gleefull announcements of democracy is dying, I have yet to even see a concrete environment. In a few minutes, I, my wife and mother in law (both of whom are part Chinese BTW) will all be voting in the 2004 election. Our votes will be counted and while the issues and candidates we vote for may not win, we will move on tommorow and continue to live our lives out. its funny, do people think half of the country will head off to Canada cause they don't like the election.????



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 02:53 PM
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First of all it shouldn't be a democracy ... They simply aren't strong enough to uphold...


This is why our founding father's established a republic... And this is why we need people vote for their principles.. America was strongest when it was a republic, not a democracy.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 05:05 PM
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It would help to validate your information and avoid any confusion.

You live in china? wow...I'd be interested to know how you came to be there.

Perhaps another thread?


Thanks,

Enigma



Originally posted by SomewhereInChina

Look at this farce known as the great stable american democracy


Before voting even began in Philadelphia -- poll watchers found nearly 2000 votes already planted on machines scattered throughout the city... One incident occurred at the SALVATION ARMY, 2601 N. 11th St., Philadelphia, Pa: Ward 37, division 8... pollwatchers uncovered 4 machines with planted votes; one with over 200 and one with nearly 500... A second location, 1901 W. Girard Ave., Berean Institute, Philadelphia, Pa, had 300+ votes already on 2 machines at start of day... INCIDENT: 292 votes on machine at start of day; WARD/DIVISION: 7/7: ADDRESS: 122 W. Erie Ave., Roberto Clemente School, Philadelphia, Pa.; INCIDENT: 456 votes on machine at start of day; WARD/DIVISION: 12/3; ADDRESS: 5657 Chew Ave., storefront, Philadelphia, Pa... Pennsylvania GOP filing suit in Court of Common Pleas to have machines in question impounded, replaced with machines that did not already have votes on them... MORE... A gun was purposely made visible to scare poll watchers at Ward 30, division 11, at 905 S. 20th St., Grand Court. Police were called and surrounded the location... Developing...


I feel sorry for the older folk who have watched the crap fall from the anus and have seen it slowly sink to the bottom of the toilet and quickly flushed away in these last few days. Our democracy is gone. I will not be surprised if this election is regarded as corrupted and fraudulent and does not count. Changes or revisions of constitution and analysis...who knows what will happen. I guess all we can do is wait. But these few hours of an early morning election day have proved our Democracy is no Destroyed.


[edit on 2-11-2004 by SomewhereInChina]

[edit on 2-11-2004 by dbates]



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 05:09 PM
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it's gone now. It was on Drudge's site... www.drudgereport.com



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