Toddler mauled by 7 Pit Bulls

reply to post by Skywatcher2011


Ok...I'm done with this. Enjoy the thread. If you would like a fight rather than discussion, which I thought was starting to be productive actually, count me out.

My opinion is going to be automatically biased because I am a mom. I love animals, don't get me wrong, its like a zoo around here..

But, I have seen pits fight first hand. I know what they are capable of.

I also know that they can be good dogs; I have known several that I would have loved to bring home with me.

I wouldn't personally have one (let alone 7) living with my children.

Poor little one

Originally posted by Nucleardoom

What's really ridiculous is playing the race card in a pit bull mauling thread.

It's an irrational hate-mongering festival thread not a mauling thread.

The same stupidity and ignorance applies regardless of species.

Here are some interesting statistics from Dogsbite.org
Be sure to scroll down and check the chart.

Dog Attack Deaths and Maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to December 31, 2012

Are these numbers meaningless as well?

edit on 29-3-2013 by Nucleardoom because: (no reason given)

They are by the simple fact that that boondogle of a site draws its figures largely from media reports.

If there's one thing journalists and cops know about less than firearms it's dogs: Which one is the pit?

ASPCA Pit Bull Media Bias

Like the phrenologists of old when you base your findings on the research of other bigots and ignorants then you no doubt will find plenty of "science" to support your own bigoted and ignorant thesis.

Reply to post by BasqueIntheDark

Ah, the Nanny Dog Myth. The "Nanny Dog" claim was put together from some pictures, but there isn't any text from the same era which makes the same claim.

It would be like somebody in the future claiming cats can talk because of LOLCAT pictures.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Skywatcher2011


www.dailyrecord.co.uk...
news.fredericksburg.com...
wtvr.com...


In 2010, the Jack Russell was number 7 on the top 20 list of dog attacks in New South Wales.

ANY dog can be violent.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Skywatcher2011

 

www.dailyrecord.co.uk...
news.fredericksburg.com...
wtvr.com...

Um Zaph, those killed were week old infants. Very fragile.

In 2010, the Jack Russell was number 7 on the top 20 list of dog attacks in New South Wales.

ANY dog can be violent.

Yeah but look at the comparison:





That's a difference between a .22 and a Dessert Eagle.

Stop blaming ANIMALS for being ANIMALS.

If you put your two year old anywhere near 7 pitbulls and your not paying attention 100% of the time.

YOUR ARE TO BLAME!!!!

I just had the sweetest pitbull in the neighborhood attack my little 10 pound dog last week with my 12 year old son in the middle of one dog trying to kill the other. I put a rear naked choke on the dog and was going to snap it's neck when it decided to stop the attack and go limp from the pressure.

This is not about what you think your little doggie will do or not...

This is about what your DOG IS CAPABLE OF DOING if it wanted to!!!! and is known to TO DO!!

Originally posted by caitlinfae
reply to post by abeverage

 

Your point about their ability tho think is an excellent one. This is why training, and socialisation is so vital for dogs and owners. Staffies have been described as thinking machines...they are incredibly smart, and love to work stuff out, love to have a puzzle, a game, a chase, hunt, kill.....

If I want him around, which I do very much, it's then my responsibility as his human to keep him exercised (at least 5 miles a day), occupied, thinking about what game I'm going to give him to play next, or he will absolutely revert to his instincts. You're quite right...they are very close to the surface, but control is also about anticipation. For instance, I never ever let him in the garden alone. He can clear a 6 foot wall with no trouble what so ever. Being a terrier, he has almighty prey drive, and if he spots another dog, he's off for a game of something. There is NO aggression in what he does...he wants to play, but I have to admit it's a scary thing to see running towards you and your little dog. He's also very vocal, and if you've ever heard a Staffie talk, or growl, or just express an opinion about something, it can be very intimidating if you don't know the breed habits. I have to anticipate his moves, watch his body language, think like he thinks when I can, so that I still stay the boss.

I don't have a problem with pure breeds apart from some of the health issues they bring up. People will still want a pedigree even if they are banned, so perhaps the best way is deal with the issue is by education and training of humans as much as the dogs.

You are under the false assumption that people are smart enough to get training and train their dogs. They are not and I would say this is a majority of people. They get the wrong breeds. They do not realize the size the animal will get, it's temperament, and abilities. They do not exercise them properly and they basically neglect them. Most people I say 70% are not responsible enough for a goldfish let alone a dog or amount care a Pit Bull needs!

And most people are lulled into a sense of security and control with well behaved pets. Unless your pet is on a leash at all times (would you do that in your home?) then you do not have complete control. And even a leash can fail or get away from you. And even with the worlds best dog trainer a dog can resort to instinct! Anyone who believes they wont or they have complete control over such a powerful Animal (any breed) is a fool!

All the education and training in the world can be ended with one word...

Squirrel! LOL

(yeah, I know everyone's dog is trained not to chase but there will be that ONE time...)

reply to post by abeverage
As I own pitbulls I will answer your questions. I would never train a pitbull to fight, or any other breed of dog. Fighting dogs is abuse, plain and simple. I believe you should train your dogs to behave properly and to follow basic commands- that applies to all breeds. I do not compare any dog to a loaded gun- dogs have a mind of their own and even with the best training can misbehave as they are only animals after all.

Yes, some bloodlines of certain breeds of dogs are specifically bred to have a killer instinct, pitbulls being one of them. Dog owners definitely ARE responsible for their dog's behavior and for spotting aggressive behaviors in their dog. Some dog owners are complete idiots and try to blame the dog's instinct when tragedies occur- but if they had controlled their pets these tragedies would not occur. If your dog is not inside, fenced in, on a leash or restricted and it attacks someone it is your fault!

Some breeds of dogs are more aggressive even in their play. I love my pitbulls and my grandchild rides my grown one like a pony- but I would never for an instant leave any child alone with ANY dog. Even if a dog is very loving it could injure a child accidentally just by trying to play with the child or give the child some love. An animal is just that- an animal, and while you may love and trust your pet a child's safety comes before all else!

I have owned many pitbulls and have always raised them to be very loving, but sometimes natural agression cannot be curbed when there has been too much inbreeding in a particular bloodline. When choosing your dog you must be sure that the breeder has not bred back into the same bloodline too many times as that makes for a more aggressive dog. I once had a pitbull that I raised from a small pup that showed signs of being aggressive early on. When he snapped at a teenager while it broke my heart I put him down. Pitbulls are a strong breed and it is better to be safe than sorry. Problem is a lot of dummies get pitbulls specifically to make them mean- they think it makes them cool. To me this is animal abuse.

As far as mixing breeds, I have found that usually pure bred dogs behave much better than mixed breeds when it comes to such breeds as pitbulls, dobermans, rottweillers, etc. Other dogs of mixed breeds can actually make for a less aggressive dog but when mixing breeds it is kind of like a roulette wheel- no matter which breed the dog resembles physically you do not know which breed will dominate instinct wise.

I do think it is a problem that just anyone can own a dog. Just as hunters must take a hunter's safety course before receiving their hunting license and one must take a course before receiving a concealed carry permit I think if you wish to own a dog that is considered a "dangerous breed" you should have to take a dog ownership safety course. I may get flamed for that, but there are too many irresponsible dog owners and if you truly love the breed and are a serious dog owner you WANT to have as much knowledge about your dog as you can.

Hope I have answered your questions to your satisfaction!

reply to post by intrepid


Yes they were, but they were still killed by a Jack Russell. The point stands that any dog can be dangerous. My brother required 12 stitches in his lip from a Chihuahua. Yes, Pits are more dangerous than most dogs, but most of the ones I've known have been so laid back that it's not funny. Even my little idiot is pretty laid back most of the time.

reply to post by Jaellma


The answer is simple. Do not outlaw these dogs but treat them like guns. If your dog does something illegal, you should be directly responsible for their crime. If a person knew they could get the death penalty if they don't raise their dog right, I bet this would happen far less and I also bet there wouldn't be very many pit bull owners.

Originally posted by caitlinfae
I hear you. The dogs were just being dogs, and doing what they have instincts to do. No-one in their right mind should leave ANY child alone with ANY dog. Jack Russells have killed children...it doesn't need to be a pit bull.

Exactly. When my daughter was born, I wouldn't leave my Shih-Tzu or my Persian alone with here until she was walking. They are an unpredictable x-factor that cannot be relied on for anything.

Owners who say "my dog never does _____" or "he's friendly and lets ____ ride it like a pony" or "it wouldn't hurt a fly" are the ones who piss me off the most. They are animals. You cannot talk to them and gain agreement on anything whatsoever. Animals can be relied on until they can't. They don't "always" or "never" do anything because they are animals. Period.

I personally wouldnt have 7 of ANY dog... certainly not allowed to form a pack and run free. I have had pits and AB's.. now I have a Staffie. Im a bully lover, but Im also an experienced "dog person" and yes... there are bad dogs. Ive had to put my own pit down due to showing aggression in the past. I took the steps.. socialization, canine behaviorist training, etc... but a point came here my concern for other humans ( this one HATED males.. even male children) superceded my love for the dog. I have kids and Im very particular about the animals I introduce. Ive seen first hand what a pack can do.. and a singular dog. You can get a pure Staffie or a pit ( they ARE different in genetics, etc) and have a great dog. I have one here.. who lives up to the nanny dog name ( and that nickname is VERY old.... as they were NOT bred for fighting originally). BUT.. a good parent never leaves a child alone with an animal.

Anthropomorphizing has caused many "accidents". An animal is an animal... and they ALL have the potential. I am definitely the "alpha" here.. and I can make this dog drop with a word, but when Im not looking... who knows I have placed the dogs lowest on the "pecking order"... and he knows it.. but he is still an animal and I understand dogs above all animals. Particularly bully breeds. These parents asked for the death of that child... they gave the dogs permission to do this in a sense. They allowed a pack, they allowed a hierarchy to NOT include the adults or children, they GAVE the dogs the yard as their turf, and they absolutely gave the pack this child. If you think the dogs didnt know the parents/grandparent didnt care for the child and didnt actively place the child higher than the dog... youre mistaken.

In this case, the parents need to be charged. Theyre too stupid to have any more children around them.

Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by abeverage

 

I do think it is a problem that just anyone can own a dog. Just as hunters must take a hunter's safety course before receiving their hunting license and one must take a course before receiving a concealed carry permit I think if you wish to own a dog that is considered a "dangerous breed" you should have to take a dog ownership safety course. I may get flamed for that, but there are too many irresponsible dog owners and if you truly love the breed and are a serious dog owner you WANT to have as much knowledge about your dog as you can.

Hope I have answered your questions to your satisfaction!

Actually we can agree on this!

As for the rest you are of about (I am being generous) 10% of dog owners that are responsible and putting down a dog is hard (I have put down a few). Anyone, even breeders with more than 2 dogs does not have control. Even one dog can get away, get out and do something instinctual. And here we will disagree the dog was breed for fighting (to which you have no argument) and until that it has been tamed and breed out the dog is a threat.

Fine you want to keep pures ok. Start a docile program and breed out the fighter!

But I have a feeling most Pit owners got that dog for that reason and would refuse to do that. They want protection and believe that is the best reason to own this breed of dog no matter the consequences. All dogs will protect your home in one way or another.

Pits are coveted and owned because they have a reputation pure and simple...

Reply to post by Jaellma




Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Reply to post by Jaellma

This was to be posted, went empty?

Hate this type of news. But even more the dumbwits who think dogs or any animals are human like in understanding like Disney movie creations.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by abeverage
I love my pits, and while I am most cautious even though they behave like big babies most of the time I have no illusions that they are animals and can be as unpredictable as any other animal. I will be the first to admit that one of the reasons that I keep pitbulls is that they can act as a great deterrent for anyone who would try to break into my house as my husband is away a huge amount of the time and often just seeing or hearing a pitbull is enough to make a would-be criminal think twice. A would be thief or rapist has no idea as to the disposition of my dogs and that is definitely a mark on the "plus" side for owning a pitbull. Their loyal and loving nature is the biggest "plus" with their intelligence running a close second.

True story: One night I heard a tire blow out on a car coming down our street. The driver limped on the rim until he got to our house- the nearest safe place to pull over. I heard a car door and looked out the window to see a young couple, about in their early 20s, looking at the flat and the man headed for the car's trunk, I assumed to fetch the jack and spare. My grown pit heard the noise and commenced to growl and bark. The young women screamed "DOG" and both ran and jumped inside the car, cranked it up and hauled butt down the street with sparks flying from the rim. Hopefully it has the same effect on anyone who might attempt to break into my house, as while our outbuildings have been broken into before no one has ever broken into my house. Such cannot be said for some of my neighbors, but those of us with pitbulls (and there are a few others in my neighborhood) no one has entered our houses uninvited.

reply to post by GreenGlassDoor


Again, who is making the species determination?

If I ask you to point out the Laotian in a line up of Cambodians could you?

You're running around screaming for the heads of all the Laotians when you dont even know what the hell one is.

reply to post by littled16


Thanks for admitting the reason! Pretty sure that is a 100% true reason for all the owners knowing the dogs notorious reputation and I would be absolutely amazed if someone didn't!

Although almost all dogs are deterrent through noise or aggression.

I am surprised that when you said you had a dog put down because of aggression that didn't change your view. I don't have that luxury I tend to be cautious if something has a higher potential for harm or litigation I avoid it.

Personally I am not willing to risk my family, myself or my neighbors well being!

The loss of a spouse (pregnant even) or the death of a Child or Manslaughter is too high a price and one that I am not willing to pay for a status symbol dog...

reply to post by abeverage
Why would that surprise you? I had a pair of Shelties a long time ago. The female went nuts one day and bit one of my nieces. I had the dog put down. The male stayed with us until he died of old age and was one of my favorite dogs. My first husband was a drunk and a drug addict who tried to beat me while I was pregnant. A year after I divorced him I married my current husband who has been wonderful for 21 years. It is the same with pitbulls- you just can't judge all of them by the actions of a few. There will always be bad dogs in every breed, and bad members of every species- humans included. It isn't fair to judge them all harshly due to a previous bad experience.