Toddler mauled by 7 Pit Bulls

Originally posted by Cocasinpry

Is your Source Wikipedia?

The following table summarizes the number of people reported by news sources as killed in 1988 and 2005–2012.

The problem I have with this is that News reports choose which story to cover. I wouldn't consider these number reliable statistics for that reason alone. It's what the news reported, it doesn't include everything they ignored.

www.cdc.gov...

This CDC report is older but seems far more accurate. In this report Pit bull fatal-attacks accounts for 27% of the grand total (66 of 238). The breed does account for the highest number of fatal-attacks of all the breeds but it paints a very different picture than the numbers you showed.

Also, you have to take into considerations that there might be some people who adopts Pit bulls because of their ill reputation and breed them as such. How would it reflect in the numbers if these owners adopted some other breed instead?

These statistics do not consider such things therefor you cannot, based on these numbers alone, blame the breed itself for the having more fatal-attacks than the other breeds. The numbers say absolutely nothing about the 'nature' of the Pit Bull and the conclusions drawn from them are all highly speculative.

From the CDC report:

Another concern is that a ban on a specific breed might cause people who want a dangerous dog to sim- ply turn to another breed for the same qualities they sought in the original dog (eg, large size, aggression easily fostered). Breed-specific legislation does not address the fact that a dog of any breed can become dangerous when bred or trained to be aggressive.

edit on 29-3-2013 by Cocasinpry because: Added the cdc quote

That report was quoted in my wikipedia link and is 13 years old the end of the data collection was 1998 which is 15 years! But I suppose that is a conspiracy against Pit Bull owners...

Although I agree with that last statement as stupid people will keep breeding other dogs for the sickening sport of dog fighting. Which these dogs have been bred for for years.

Owning more than 3-4 dogs is irresponsible unless you are a breeder and have the space and time to properly care for them. 7 dogs speaks volumes of the competency of the owners and is typical of a lot of dog owners who don't know that even one dog is a lot of work. Then these animals are neglected and act accordingly no surprises there. And unfortunately because people cannot control themselves much less the animals they raise there has to be laws.

Perhaps more Pit owners should be more vocal and responsible to the breed in teaching and educated what it takes to raise just one instead of letting the courts handle. The more that they handle it and media blows it up the machine (Government) steps in and takes care of it for them.

Believe what you want you will never convince me to have one or that the are a safer bred to be around. Nor that the owners should not be prosecuted for Manslaughter when their dog kills.

reply to post by _R4t_


Please see my reply to Cocasinpry above as you both stated basically the same argument. And my response would basically be the same.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by Jaellma

 

I dont have to mainly because those numbers are meaningless.

In 2009, the incarceration
1
rate (number per 100,000 population) among African-American males was almost 7
times higher than that among white males (4,749 African-American v. 708 white), and the rate among Hispanic
males was more than 2.5 times higher (1,822 Hispanic) than that among white males.
2

Prison populations

Oh look. Black people must be inherinitly more violent than white people.

See how ridiculous, and racist, it is?

I get it. Simple minds love to hate. Hating on black people fell out of vogue. Hating the black dog is the next logical place to focus this insane and irrational fear.

edit on 29-3-2013 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)

No it's not the race that is more violent it is their culture and/or upbringing. This holds true for the pit bull also. That's why your example of those prison statistics was a very good comparison.

-Alien Abduct

these animals should be illegal and shot on sight.
I do not like them and I don't trust them.they are too dangerous.

perhaps if we changed the name of the breed to " ladypuff marmalade terriers", it would stop idiots buying the poor dogs trying to make themselves look hard. that happens all the time where i am unfortunatley

reply to post by abeverage


Not trying to convince anyone of anything I'm simply stating facts and opinions.

In my opinion, the studies are inconclusive therefore my only comment is I do not know. I did, however, learn much about inherent behavioral traits in humans. Learned vs. Inherent, Heredity vs Environment, Nature vs. Nurture are two on-going arguments which is discussed through many fields of study. The most comprehensive research is made through the help of the Twin study.

en.wikipedia.org...

I doubt anyone argues that genes play a role in predisposition but I wouldn't condemn a person simply because he or she had parents who were criminals. If one twin commits murder should they both be locked up? Should the innocent one be scorned by society? Of course, many people are already doing that... condemning people based on physical traits, beliefs and geographical location.

Just because people fear something doesn't make it evil, more often than not it is their own ignorance that is the most destructive force since ignorance leads to fear and...

"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering" -Yoda

Originally posted by ShaithisFerenczy
perhaps if we changed the name of the breed to " ladypuff marmalade terriers", it would stop idiots buying the poor dogs trying to make themselves look hard. that happens all the time where i am unfortunatley

Pits have been known to kill their owners and you think naming them Ladypuff marmalade terrier would stop idiots for getting them?...I am betting if they did change the name rich idiots the likes of Paris Hilton and her ilk would make them popular...

...Oh wait...

GREAT IDEA!

reply to post by abeverage


So have Rottweilers, German Shepherds, Labrador Retrievers (with the help of a Dachshund), Huskies, Border Collies, Bulldogs, Bullmastiffs, Doberman Pinschers, Chows, even a Schnauzer was involved in a fatal attack. All of those have either killed their owners, or been involved in fatal attacks on owners.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by abeverage

 

So have Rottweilers, German Shepherds, Labrador Retrievers (with the help of a Dachshund), Huskies, Border Collies, Bulldogs, Bullmastiffs, Doberman Pinschers, Chows, even a Schnauzer was involved in a fatal attack. All of those have either killed their owners, or been involved in fatal attacks on owners.

True, but sadly and unfortunately the Chanel Purse Chihuahuas, the Gucci hand bag Terriers or the Coach Spaniel has yet to make a fatal attack and there is a real tragedy...

reply to post by _R4t_

And at last... Lassie's more unstable than Pits and Staffies...

The thing that I am wondering is even if Pits are more stable is once they are set off into aggro mode is what damage they are capable of.

How hard is it to get them to submit once instigated?

I've heard their jaw strength is pretty darn strong. Combine that with a dog that once set off is not able to be intimidated, then how stable they are might be a secondary factor.

I think people who say that it's the breed that's to blame are ignoring the fact that many owners get them because they're perceived by many to be dangerous. The problem is that these owners then proceed to encourage their dog to be aggressive and scary. This is irresponsible.

So far it does look like Pit Bulls have a higher fatality rate in their attacks, but again, I think that irresponsible owners are using the stereotype and inflating the numbers...

What's interesting is other dog breeds show higher rates of biting attacks...

reply to post by nightstalker78


The guy snuck in my house while I was sleeping. He was protecting my family. again twelve years never a problem. I have twelve nieces and nephews at the time between 6 months and twelve years. again never a problem. Because I was a responsible owner. It is people who sullied the name.

reply to post by Miracula


How stable they are is actually an important factor. If they're hard to get to stop once they start, but you have a dog that doesn't go into that mode easily, because it's so stable, then you have to worry less about it happening. If you have an unstable dog, that's more likely to kick off into that mode, you have more to worry about. When we got ours, we met his parents too, and they both were so laid back it wasn't even funny. Two people they had never seen before were on the truck, handling their puppies, and they both just sat there watching, and barely moved the entire time. The people who owned them said the male would sit there and honk the truck horn when he saw them outside the truck, trying to tell them to get back into the truck already. You can already see some of that personality showing through in our puppy. He adores people, and will practically throw himself out of the truck trying to get to someone to lick them to death. I've heard him bark (when we didn't get him to by rough housing with him) three or four times, and usually when there was an unexpected noise outside the truck. You can already tell that unless we do something to cause it, we're going to have a very stable, gentle dog on our hands, who loves people.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
I think people who say that it's the breed that's to blame are ignoring the fact that many owners get them because they're perceived by many to be dangerous. The problem is that these owners then proceed to encourage their dog to be aggressive and scary. This is irresponsible.

So far it does look like Pit Bulls have a higher fatality rate in their attacks, but again, I think that irresponsible owners are using the stereotype and inflating the numbers...

What's interesting is other dog breeds show higher rates of biting attacks...

edit on 30-3-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

That is EXACTLY the problem and so as a society when people cannot control themselves or their pets then unfortunately the Government and the Court steps in.

Already several owners are being charged with Manslaughter from the negligence of ownership. So maybe stronger, stricter laws would curb this situation since no one wants to blame the breed as it is the owners who are at fault. I can be all for tougher penalties and making examples of people who are irresponsible and uneducated on what the Animal is capable of.

Originally posted by curiouswa
I posted a reply on another ATS thread about 30 days about regarding pitbulls. Went to our local (very large) humane society to look for a dog. Half the dogs were pitbulls! I was blown away! I don't care about the few that owners claim are sweet. The breed in general is vicious and while I'm a dog lover, I HATE pitbulls!!!

Really were they? Were the other other half "Lab mixes"? Lab mix is term for "I don't know the breed so it must be a Lab mix" and or hiding what might be a bully breed mix.

There are 25+ breeds that are commonly wrongly identified as pit bulls, Those of us who have been involved with the breed for years have trouble identifying them 100% of the time, so, we certainly can’t expect inexperienced people to be able to properly ID a dog. That said, it leads us to believe that many of the bites that claim to be from pit bulls are in fact, inflicted by other breeds.Source

Originally posted by dellmonty
these animals should be illegal and shot on sight.

I do not like them and I don't trust them.they are too dangerous.

Wow, okay, very smart. See the ex text above.

I was attacked by one of these "beasts" when I was 5 years old. Damn dog bit my nose plum off my face. In spite of this, the pit bull is my second favorite breed behind the boxer. In my experience, if a pit bull is RAISED PROPERLY they are one of the very best dogs to have around. Loving, loyal, protective... everything you could want in a dog and a potential NIGHTMARE for any would be intruders. I miss my red nose very much. Dude weighed 115lbs. A complete beast. But the most gentle dog I have ever owned.

The problem, as always, is the owners. ANY DOG will display the same personality traits as its pack leader. Even down to its posture. If you are a douche, you will raise douche dogs. Douche pit bulls are dangerous. And that is just how it is.

I hate seeing the breed punished because of irresponsible owners.

The dog that attacked me was raised to fight btw.

ETA: My pit was an identical copy of the pit pictured in the open, but a male and much larger. I called him Kahlua.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Miracula

 

How stable they are is actually an important factor. If they're hard to get to stop once they start, but you have a dog that doesn't go into that mode easily, because it's so stable, then you have to worry less about it happening. If you have an unstable dog, that's more likely to kick off into that mode, you have more to worry about. When we got ours, we met his parents too, and they both were so laid back it wasn't even funny. Two people they had never seen before were on the truck, handling their puppies, and they both just sat there watching, and barely moved the entire time. The people who owned them said the male would sit there and honk the truck horn when he saw them outside the truck, trying to tell them to get back into the truck already. You can already see some of that personality showing through in our puppy. He adores people, and will practically throw himself out of the truck trying to get to someone to lick them to death. I've heard him bark (when we didn't get him to by rough housing with him) three or four times, and usually when there was an unexpected noise outside the truck. You can already tell that unless we do something to cause it, we're going to have a very stable, gentle dog on our hands, who loves people.

Exactly... mine was like that it would literally pull on the chain till it choke itself so much it was crazy and wagging its tale likes nuts when he saw anybody strangers or not... I would walk with him in town on leach and people would be like wow that's a happy and kind dog what breed is it? I would go "Pitbull" and they would step back for a second then it would turn into an 1 hour conversation on how they though it was the devil's dog only to see mine that's kinder than any labs they've ever seen...

Those dogs need exercises TONS of exercises to occupy them mentally and it prevents them from being stressed. A stressed dog is a dog prone to flip the switch no matter what breed it is.. They'll be jumpy they'll bite/bark out of fright... Its sad to say but 90% of people that owns dog today have no clue how to properly raise them...

Who does any of the following?

-Keep food bowls always full.
-Let dogs in their bedrooms and on furniture
-Let dog walk on leach in front of them.
-Let dog go through doors before them.
-Lay down on the ground with the dog.
-Talk to them like if they were children.
-Make the dog eat at the same time you eat.
-Leave the dog its toys all the time and all around the house.
-Let the dog step on your foots.
-Let the dog sit on top of you.

And I could go on and on...

Those are some of the things that shouldn't be done to properly raise ANY dogs... And are an absolute no with any terrier/molosser... You'll end up in the news if you ever get any molosser whether its a Pitbull or not...


Anybody here ever seen dogs for blind people? Anybody ever wondered why they are so calm?... Those dogs when they are puppies until the age of 1 aren't allowed any of the above, they aren't allowed to play with balls or anything that could get them excited... They learn to be calm and to behave...

Same thing with pitbull and/or any breed... Its true that they are MUCH stronger than the average breed hence can inflict much more damage if they flip the switch but this is true to any dogs... And dogs left alone in packs WILL attack... its a known problem in Saskatchewan on native reserves there's alot of labradors over there and they form packs of wild dogs and sometimes with cayotes and become as vicious if not more dangerous because they don't fear humans like cayotes do... Over there they shoot any dog that rooms freely on sight over there because of this...

Its not the dog its the environment the dog only reflects its environment nothing more.... If YOU are stressed the dog becomes stressed... if YOU are a douche and you act like a douche the dog will be a douche... Don't believe me... Ever notice people with stress issues have dogs that keeps barking and don't listen and are nerve balls...

The only reason Pits are higher in stats its due to population... If you add population numbers to the stats you quickly realize that German Sheppards and Rothweillers are WAY more dangerous than Pits... Because they are guard dogs... The problem is people get dogs they DON'T need or doesn't know crap about because they "look good" or "look tough" not understanding those are often working breeds.

Chowchow tops any list anywhere attack/population wise... But nobody hears about deadly chowchow attacks on the news don't they? Nobody knows what a chowchow is...

As a matter of fact I would bet my account here that 99% of the people complaining about pitbulls here CANNOT properly identify a real pitbull

As a matter of fact... Those that are complaining about pitbulls and say have seen people ripped apart by pitbulls well... Were those dogs actually DNA tested and proven to be? Most dogs people THINK are pitbulls are veryyyy far from being... as a matter of fact here's a little test for you folks...

FIND THE PITBULL!

Originally posted by nightstalker78
reply to post by InhaleExhale

 

No,he won't. I agree with him. I see a pit bull anywhere on MY property it's dead.

Not because I fear it.But because I have a 5 year old child living here.

And a strange dog,let alone a Pit Bull,is the last thing she needs to enounter.

Sorry bud,but my daughters life is more important then your pit bull.

I cant help with blindness,


When you make threats you will be threatened, that all I was saying.

I do not have a pit bull and did not insinuate any life is more important than any other so you lost me there bud.

Not because you fear, but because of the kids. that's weak and fearful in my opinion