I have a cousin who is wigging out. She is deeply religious and had her son baptised. A few weeks later her Mother in Law, who claims to be an "environmentalist" asked if she could take the baby and do a different type of dedication ceremony. My cousin agreed.

Apparently this ceremony was held on a pier and the baby was naked. The baby was 'dedicated' to the world and then turned in each direction and dedicated to the wind, the earth, etc.

This happened a few years ago but my cousin just found out what this ceremony consisted of. The "Environmentalist" mother in law wants to start spending more alone time with my cousins son and my cousin is wondering if it is 'safe'.

I have had no luck on google finding info on this but if someone could clarify what type of ceremony this is I would appreciate it. I assured my cousin that whatever religion it is I am sure it is not 'dangerous' to her son, it is just different from her Christian religion.

Can anyone help me with this?

Jemison

I have no idea what the ceremony was...but there appears to be nothing in it of a negative nature at all....it seems to be a simple, "introduction" ...introducing the baby to nature...nothing bad or harmful....the mother, to me, is being paranoid...

Originally posted by LadyV

I have no idea what the ceremony was...but there appears to be nothing in it of a negative nature at all....it seems to be a simple, "introduction" ...introducing the baby to nature...nothing bad or harmful....the mother, to me, is being paranoid...

I have to agree with that.
If the directions themselves were associated with elements, that might suggest Wicca, but that isn't enough to definitively say anything at all.
I suggest your cousin asks questions until she understands the reason for things, rather than being scared.
Honestly, if it was a Wiccan ritual the child might *gasp* learn to be a good person or something.
Sounds harmless.

Agreed with the above. There are a number of Native American practices that are vaguely similar... heck, you saw something similar in "The Lion King" movie.

A 5 minute ceremony for an infant isn't going to predispose them to anything.

I agree 100% that my cousin is being paranoid but because this was done secretly she is concerned about the reason why this is being hidden from her. I have assured her that her son is not in danger and that she should not worry. I also keep telling her that I'm sure it would be difficult for her Mother in Law to discuss her religious beliefs with a semi-fanatical Christian and she can't really blame her for that.

I think the funniest part of the entire thing is that she is now freaking out thinking that 'environmentalists' are witches. She's a sweet person and would do anything for anyone but naive doesn't even begin to describe her.

Anyway, since the Mother in Law will only refer to herself as an Environmentalist my cousin just wants to know the true name of a religion that would have this type of dedication so that she can study it and understand it and try to overcome her fear of it. I think that makes sense which is why I'm trying to help her.

Jemison

Originally posted by Jemison
I agree 100% that my cousin is being paranoid but because this was done secretly she is concerned about the reason why this is being hidden from her.

While I do not agree in anything being done behind someone's back AT ALL, especially concerning their child,....it was most likely done that way, knowing that your cousin would start the typical "devil/evil/negative BS. I don't actually u8nderstand baptizing a baby as I thought the bible states you have to choose on your own.....

Isn't it amazing the stupidity of some people

Jemison,
I contacted a friend about your post, hoping to get an answer. She's not a member of ATS, but wanted me to reply to you.

"you can reply and tell them that it is a pagan ritual and one very commonly performed. Basically, the child is just introduced to the universe and all its glory. They usually request that the child be brought up in the wisdom of the universe and in full knowledge of its Self, which means a high level of consciousness to begin with.

As far as the woman wanting to spend more time with the child,
she's probably wanting to start it on the road of the Craft. But in a turbo christian household this will only hurt the child. If the child is showing interest in the craft it must be guided down that road, otherwise the parents will end up suffocating the child and they will be lucky if it acknowledges them in adulthood.

They will have a similar split like my father and i do he does not like me anymore because of my spiritual choices but it is most definately nothing for them to freak out about"

I hope this helps Jemison

The ceremony is symbolic in nature some of us has forgotten that we all are united with nature and we are part of it, our enviroment feed us and provide us with the elemental necesities to survival, we have become so "modern" in our views that we have forgotten that without nature we can not survive.

Perhaps the child introduction to our enviroment will prepare him to understand and respect nature for our survival and the human survival also.

Originally posted by sosuemetoo
you can reply and tell them that it is a pagan ritual and one very commonly performed. Basically, the child is just introduced to the universe and all its glory.

That sounds more to me like an African American practice from slave times....which yes, as far as the Christian would see it, Pagan....doesn't sound particularly Wiccan though

Originally posted by LadyV
I don't actually u8nderstand baptizing a baby as I thought the bible states you have to choose on your own.....

In the catholic religion when a baptized person is old enough to make their own decisions they go through confirmation. This is to confirm their belief in the church and the faith. So the person that was baptized as an infant will ultimately need to decide on their own if the church is right for them.

kinglizard...K...do you know about other faiths? I "think" I have read/heard something about the age of 11 when a child becomes responsible for him/her self in the area of religion and God?

And she could just simply want to spend more time with her grandson now that he is at an age that you can really enjoy him --

jm

Originally posted by LadyV
kinglizard...K...do you know about other faiths? I "think" I have read/heard something about the age of 11 when a child becomes responsible for him/her self in the area of religion and God?

Honestly I don't know much about other religions. I was raised in a Catholic Parochial school all my life taught by nuns and priests, you know the whole bit. Guess it kinda stuck with me.

You may be right about the age of eleven though I was going to say thirteen but decided not to because I wasn't sure.

[edit on 2-11-2004 by kinglizard]

I don't really have anything to say about the ceremony itself since it's news to me. Clearly not Christian and if done without the parent's permission, it's just plain wrong at that age. In any case, it sounds like the concern is more on the 'environmentalist' in the family. One act was done in secrecy, can you then trust that person alone with the cousin further? It's a tough call. I'd have more detailed conversations with that person. It could be that they really have a heart-felt concern for the world the child is going to be a part of but that doesn't give the right to educate the child separate from the parents. On the other extreme, it could be something really foul. Can you trust something would not go wrong with your child? Communication would be key. Talk to the family member, talk with the child when old enough, and of course talk to God. Have I talked enough? I'll shut up now

It isn't particularly Wiccan, but it is definitely pagan. Of course it could have been performed by a follower of Wicca (in particular an eclectic Wiccan) but it isn't a 'Wiccan' ritual.

Ceremony, schmeremony. If the mother feels she wants to know what happens to her child she has all the right in the world. If someone close to me wanted to spend more secret alone time with my child and didn't want me to know about it big warning bells would go off and request would be denied. I want to know what happens to my children.

About the ceremony itself it does not seem to be more significant than a regular christian baptism. As long as the parents consent I can't imagine the child would be worse off for going through a pagan ritual.

First of all the dedication of a baby is a process that for the greater part
is inapplicable in the fact of unfortunate circumstances where in the baby dies up to the age of understanding......by this I mean if the child cant understand God and his designs and wishes the baby is an innocent and automatically covered by the blood of the lamb of God , the Christ Jesus, so fear not for the childs sole ok the baby is still okay with God.

A dedication as LadyV pointed out is an introduction, but also serves as a commitment made by the parents to God to raise the child according to his Laws.

Second the dedication of the child to anything or anyone other than God is a forum of worshipping a false God, which according to God's law is forbidden so the mother has done God's will by dedicating the child to God,
but what the Grand Mother has not complied with God's law and is muted first by the mothers actions in accordance to God's Law and second by the innocents of the child.

I would be more concerned more that the forsight of the mother to follow Gods Laws, was very good, however she failed to a point by not being firm in her beliefs that Gods law forbids this action of worship to anything or anyone other than God....I would respectfully submit that you might ask the mother that in the future she be firm in her position mother in law or not......Faith in God is not subject to political correctness, you should not be intimidated or afraid to the point you do what is not of God.

The ritual you have witness is closest related to wiccan and sorcery and
other elementally related beliefs where in all things come from the earth.
Including medications,wisdom, strength, and resources that bring about change.

The ritual is not really pegan as I understand it more falls under satanic,
and evil power transfer related beliefs where in the resources, and power come from an evil being weather it be Lucifer or another evil angel or minyon...


I hope this helps.

[edit on 3/11/2004 by drbryankkruta]

Originally posted by LadyV
kinglizard...K...do you know about other faiths? I "think" I have read/heard something about the age of 11 when a child becomes responsible for him/her self in the area of religion and God?

The particular age is not specified, because people develope at differnt paces so where in the conscious understanding and choice based on that understanding is varied. If a child is taught from birth and gets a clear grasp it could realistically begin to understand as early as 4 where in they learn do this cause its good dont do that cause its bad , but again their are differnt ages based on development.

Good example in more common terms would be a child prodigy or genius factor.