Tell me about Magick.

Tell me about Magick.

It comes from dragons?

Reborn goldfish dragons.

Keep your foil hat on.

Originally posted by Bybyots
Some types of magician's and alchemists search for all sorts of consistencies and correlations in texts, you can imagine the amount of reading and education that it requires for a person to develop their own internal database of all this stuff, so that they have a conceptual resource with which to compare everything else. This is how Alchemical symbolism is supposed to be able to 'come alive' in the mind of the reader to instruct at the level intended by the author: the reader needs one of these internal databases from which to operate.

Everyone already possesses that kind of database, built up from every day experience. For most people, they don't realize they are assembling such a thing, and as a result, no care is put towards how it's built, which results in a chaotic tangle.

Those who practice magic seek to assemble that jumble of associative symbols and archetypes into a working machine. Each paradigm or path, each organized magical group has a specific mental machine they want to assemble, and each path has it's own set of operating instructions to work with their unique machines. If your magic doesn't work, it's because your machine sucks, or like the Greatest American Hero, you lack the instructions on how to properly operate your machine.

It really doesn't matter if your paradigm is based on greek mythology or my little pony, it's how that system is structured that counts. Mixing and matching paradigms will lead to frustrations if you don't know how to code your system properly.

If you want a few kinds to consider for study and discussion, here's a short list...

Alchemy
Animism
Appalachian Magic
Asatru
Benedicaria
Black Magic
Bön
Candomblé Jejé
Ceremonial magic
Chaos magic
Druidry
Feri Tradition
Haitian Vodou
Hermetic Qabalah
Hermeticism
Hoodoo
Huna
Kabbalah
Louisiana Voodoo
Nagual
Obeah
Onmyōdō
Palo
Pow-wow
Psychonautics
Quimbanda
Reiki
Santería
Satanism
Seid
Setianism
Sex Magic
Shamanism
Shinto
Sigil Magic
Stregheria
Tantra
Taoism
Thelema
West African Vodun
Witchcraft
Wicca
Zos Kia Cultus

reply to post by EarthCitizen23


Thank you very much for your input, you mentioned vibration and set my mind right. I was not sure I was asking the right thing, (and damn sure I wasn't asking it well), but now I have an understanding of what I was asking.

I wasn't sure I wanted to go this direction, or that I hadn't already started and needed to know why, but I feel much better about it now.

Thanks to everyone for the fantastic answers. It will take a while to go through all the information and I am grateful for that opportunity.

reply to post by network dude


From what i've learnt over the years there are actually two kinds of magic.The technical and the mind magic.
The technical is the use of the properties of natural stuff or advanced (for the time) technology(be it the gunpowder or a lighter). For example if you go to a caveman with a lighter and you create fire from thin air this is magic for him. As Arthur C. Clarke said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." In other words someone with either advanced technology or the knowledge to use the nature around him could be considered a practitioner of magic.

The second kind of magic the one i call the mind magic, is the powers the humans possess. I have noticed over the years that everyone has dormant powers that can be activated either by practice or in time of great danger(in other words when the body is overflowing with adrenaline). I'm not just talking about telepathy and telekinisis.My grandpa,who was a very wise man, was talking about the power of belief. He used to tell me that if i believed something very much i could make it come to life. It's all about the manipulation of self energy.
The problem with this is that we have been brainwshed into believing that "magic" is evil and humans don't have any power, apart from the physical strength. The reason for that brainwashing is that certain people, who have the knowledge of this power want to use it for themselves and to reign over the uninitiative.

The spells have no real power, they are just tools to help the mind believe that can do certain things.

The many different types of magic that are named in a previous post are based in the purpose of using this power. For example someone who is directing energy to harm someone else can say that is practicing black magic.

I could write a book about this. If you have any questions, i'll be happy to answer, although i don't claim to know everything. I'm still learning and as grandpa used to say :"we are students until our last breath"

Originally posted by jcutler12888
If you want a few kinds to consider for study and discussion, here's a short list...

Can any of those magically produce a beer for my pal network?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Hm, I got a question for you, regarding the 18th Level (rosicrucianism) which I would like to discuss over U2U. If you don't mind, of course.

Originally posted by swan001
Hm, I got a question for you, regarding the 18th Level (rosicrucianism) which I would like to discuss over U2U. If you don't mind, of course.

No worries, but I guarantee you will get many more answers on the forum.

Either way, let me know.

reply to post by network dude


I think Skada has pretty much hit it right on the head here, at least for me, and my understanding...

Depends on who you ask. But a lot of people from those disciplines that practice "magick," use this spelling to segregate it from the illusionary stage magic tricks.

For them, the end result of the working is the focus, not the getting there. It is a form of manifestation using ritualistic "tools" to focus energy and bring it into your reality (or pull you to the reality where the end result has a higher probability of happening). For those that use magick, they will tell you that it absolutely works, but it isn't like making a wish to a genie, it will take some time for the magick to complete and the end result to occur.

So, you could say that magick works, and it doesn't work based on your belief system. No matter what you choose, you will be right.

I've always kind of hated the "magick" spelling, though I get the reason. For me, better simply to call stage magicians "illusionists" and be done with it, because that is what is being done....illusions. You can believe in "real" magic or not, but if you do not, you certainly can't expect to wield it. In a sense, for me, magic is a lot like using "The Secret" from that self-help stuff...or Power of Attraction. But, instead of just your will, you are using ritualistic tools and symbolic magic to help strengthen that will that then goes out into the Universe.

The theory being that the same ideas, used over time, are not just using YOUR will and belief, but that of all of those who went before you, using the same symbology, etc. So, when you burn a green or gold candle for wealth, you're not just using your desire for wealth, but the belief of everyone else who ever burned a green or gold candle for the same.

Sympathetic magic can likewise (and additionally) be used. In a sense, this is using ideas such as quantum entanglement. A piece of something still being somehow connected to the whole. This is the principle behind a voodoo doll that uses part of someone or something close to them to form the connection. But, you could also use soil from a bank, for example, for a money spell.

I don't usually talk about magic much, not even really with my loved ones. I will say though, that I have used magic in the past couple of years while envisioning my goals and desires. We were renting a cheap house, now we own our own ranch and have land, horses, etc. Does magic work? Well, that's for you to decide. But, I also believe there is always a cost to balance the scales too, so it (for me) isn't something to be done lightly. As for the "right" way to do it...I think that's bull. The only right way is what feels right to you, what will bolster your own belief and will to thrust your desired effect into manifesting in the Universe. Or it could all just be luck, who knows. It matters not, only what you believe.

All a spell or ritual is, is the use of these foci (focus items, plural) to reinforce your will, your desired effect. Whether there are words, or what language the words are in, even which tools and symbols you use, are all up to you, and what YOU feel will put it out there better. Personally, I think that the more effort that goes into your ingredients and ritual, the better the result. For example, I approached my wealth spell from many angles. From an elemental angle, I collected water from a wishing fountain, air from a bag that had been sealed with paper money and coins, earth from a bank, and for fire, the burning of a dollar. My "spell" was in English, to focus more on the meaning of the words, vs. abstract memorization. I used a spell altar cloth inscribed with a circle, because I believe circles are a natural form in the Universe, and the boundary helps to focus the energy. Lastly, I devised an order to the steps of the spell that made sense, and focused on keeping my will focused on what I wanted...not a specific means of getting it (so you wouldn't focus on winning the lotto), but what I wanted the result to be (our own home, land, etc.).

Now, it all sounds like a bunch of new age hippie bullcrap, sure...but hey, it either worked, or it's a huge coincidence. Either way, I'm happy with the result. (there was also a cost, but not going there).

reply to post by network dude

I have absolutely no doubt that magick is very real and very unstable and unpredictable.

Some of us have been casting, brewing and cursing since we were young children and didn't or still don't realize what we/they have been doing.

The energy of the universe doesn't take things lightly, it carry's what it picks up from you or what you have put out there to be collected by it. as most of us see that bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people, i think magick is the reason for this.

Good light people pay the price now, bad negative people pay the price after their life cycle.

Its not the good persons fault, its not intentional to bring bad vibes upon oneself, we do it without thinking things through, whether it be under stress, sadness, loss, impatients, love or desperation.

if you want something it will eventually come to you, but there is a price to pay, a sacrifice that you have no choice in. this is the reason magick is not taken lightly, with roses comes thorns.

scenario example: a mother is her kitchen getting dinner ready, she doesn't have time in her day to spend some time to herself, the kids are running a muck, her husbands come home cranky causing negativity to linger throughout the house, she takes a deep breath and with all of her will she says "give me a break, all i want is a break".

what do you think is going to happen? these people arnt bad, they are good of heart and genuinely the first to help anyone out. yes the kids are playing up a bit by being noisy and such, but no one is being nasty or mean, just kids being kids. the father isn't abusing anyone, he doesn't even think about such things, he is just expressing his bad day through his tone and posture.

ok so what happens in the following days. one child falls of their bike breaking both arms, the next day another child is pushed over at school. yes you guessed it another broken arm. thats 1, 2, 3 things broken that the mother asked for, of course she didn't ask pain to be inflicted on anyone else, especially her children, but that's how magick works. she dint know she was casting, she probably doesn't even know about magick.


Love and harmony
Whateva

reply to post by network dude


I believe in it, I think it is genetic to some extent. It also can come directly from God, nothing to do with demons, yet isn't tarot cards amnd portraying demons demonic? It's like for some reason the magic has to be occult, totally secret, then when someone sees the magic it is like an eye opener.

But mentalism on behalf of some negative force?

No, if any thing Jesus had the same 'Magic' and it was holy.

psychic abilities are real. i've only experienced/witnessed small scale things(tk,rv,etc). i suppose these little accomplishments increase the possibility that humans have the potential within to do much more "impressive" feats.

reply to post by network dude


I think it could possibly be a mind over matter kind of thing, per what you believe.

Can you will something to happen? Possibly.

I grew up with my grandmother being of great service to our family and many others. Still is, the woman is like superwoman! Dont make her mad though, she will write your name on a piece of paper and put it in the freezer,.

Her dreams are also prophetic. I was dating this guy, she knew well, as did the rest of my family. She called one morning and told me she dreamed he shot me and the kids then killed himself and she was worried. I told her I had just broken up with him and I felt weirded out myself by some of his ways. A month later she called to tell me he killed himself. Thats just one example.

I think some people may lead with their spirit mind, more than others. Belief can be a huge part per making the will come to reality. I dunno.

reply to post by greyer


Well, the more "special" or "unique" magic is made, the easier it is to focus and believe. So really, it is a self-serving distinction. I have studied magic (mostly in secret, because of the ridicule factor) for much of my life. I have only practiced it though, on a handful of occasions, and only when I felt I had great need...(which is likely why it worked).

If the OP is looking for a good book, the best one (to me) I've found, is actually one written to children, though it has a lot of really advanced magical concepts. It's called "Grimoire for the Apprentice Wizard"

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364567710&sr=1-1-spell&keywor ds=obereron+zell+ravenheart

Although written as if one were maybe a student at Hogwarts, the information inside is an excellent primer to magic and magical thought...and different types of magic.

Originally posted by onequestion
reply to post by network dude

 

Defining magick.... Heh. It's not that easy trust. Magic is not a spell or a ritual. It's deeper then that and in order to discover its truth you need to define it yourself. I can't do that for you.

I told you where to start if you think you can handle it when I get home I will incorporate more information for you. Don't listen to simpleton ideas and explanations I cannot define what it is for you you can only discover that truth for yourself. Anyone who is truly initiated can tell you that.

Actually NetworkDude, you should insist on starting with a real definition of magick, I see none here.

Definition: Magick; is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will.

All of the ritual, praying, chanting, dancing, etc, etc. is only a means to so condition the consciousness of the magician that he may effect what many deem improbable.

93

So to anyone who practices Magick, can I ask you a more specific question?

What can it achieve? What do you feel you have you achieved using it? For example, have you - made someone fall in love with you, altered the weather, combated illness?

I just need some concrete examples.

It's funny, but people profess not to believe in magic, and yet pray.

Isn't prayer a form of magic? Indeed, are you not beseeching a higher power for some kind of interference in reality?

In essence, every church ritual, whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hebrew, etc. is a form of magic.

reply to post by Gazrok


I don't even need religion to get that feeling. Throw some Shrinky Dinks in the oven and within ten minutes I'm ready to sacrifice virgins to appease the oven God.

reply to post by Millions

What can it achieve? What do you feel you have you achieved using it? For example, have you - made someone fall in love with you, altered the weather, combated illness?

I'm happy, I live in the kind of place I always wanted to live,and some other things I'm not ready to share. A couple of years ago, I couldn't have made those statements. Concrete enough for me.

I don't think making someone fall in love with you would be covered well under magic though...if you accept the idea of magic to be putting your will out into the Universe. Perhaps you could somewhat influence it, but imposing your will over another's will, I'm just thinking that would be some dark magic, and likely have some severe blowback.

I've done some things (mostly in my ignorance, while studying it) where I've seen the darker side, but had the wisdom to simply put it aside for a while.

Magic should serve you, not the other way around. For me, it is like a very dusty tool, covered with cobwebs in the garage, that I only disturb when in need. Doesn't mean I don't study it, but I'll leave the practice of it to others for the most part.

Originally posted by network dude
I'll be honest, I believe in things that are tangible. I do not discount things I cannot see or touch, but I am skeptical and would need some serious proof to believe. I don't know much about the Chaos magick or any other type other than the traditional "magician's illusions or slight of hand". I may be massively misunderstanding it's context, and that is what this thread is about. In many secret societies there is a mystical part that takes a whole lot of faith to believe.

I remember talking to a Rosicrucian and being told that they felt the same way until something happened that changed their minds. (and scared the crap out of them) I didn't get into the details of what that was but took it for what it was. I see members of OTO discussing this topic with some knowledge.

I heard all about how a Ouija board could summon demons, and while I don't believe in them, I sure wouldn't want to find out how wrong I was that way, so I don't mess with them. That may be a bit hypocritical, but I don't see it that way. I see it as not poking the rabid badger with a sharp stick to see how pissed off I can make it.

So I would be very interested in hearing interpretations of what Magick is, and what you might be able to gain by using it.

And please, if it's something you obligated yourself not to discuss with the uninitiated, please say that so I will not pry where I shouldn't be prying.

I'll give you my view as to how magic works. In a nutshell, ritual is key. If you subscribe to Carl Jung over Freud, this will be much easier for you to swallow. Now keep in mind, I'm talking about straight-up ritual magic here and not anything related to divinity. Magic involving a holy or spiritual element (demons, angels, gods, goddesses, etc) is an entirely different beast.

Now I'm just making up this illustration as I go so if memory foam mattresses do not really work this way, I apologize, heh heh.

Imagine that our collective unconscious works like a memory foam mattress. If you sleep on your back one night and then on your side and then upside-down, you will not leave a lasting imprint. However, if you sleep in the same position every night, it will leave an impression. Now say a friend comes over to house sit for you and you let them sleep in your bed. If they want the most worn-in part of the bed, you would tell them to sleep exactly where you do and in the same position. That is how a ritual spell works. Eventually, the symbols alone that you associate with those spells will have an effect after performing the rituals enough.

A ritual that involves dramatic and in-depth steps, performed over centuries (or millennia), will draw from the same well and have more effect than none at all. Personalized rituals are more effective naturally, so it's best to draw from both wells and simply modify existing rituals to fit your particular craft or path.

This is how shamans work. This is how Catholics work. This is how witches and ceremonial magicians work. It's actually how practice in general works. The collective unconscious works for the mundane as well as for magic.