Tell me about Magick.

One more before I go.

I think that's it is very interesting that Monty Python has come up in this thread.

If you look at the guys and gals that wrote the most respected books on Alchemy, Maier, Atwood, Fulcanelli, and so on, you will find that their writings are super-dense in mythological references. In fact, a great deal of Alchemical symbolism is couched in analogies form Greek mythology and medieval folklore.

Some types of magician's and alchemists search for all sorts of consistencies and correlations in texts, you can imagine the amount of reading and education that it requires for a person to develop their own internal database of all this stuff, so that they have a conceptual resource with which to compare everything else. This is how Alchemical symbolism is supposed to be able to 'come alive' in the mind of the reader to instruct at the level intended by the author: the reader needs one of these internal databases from which to operate.

So when I see Monty Python referenced above as "Python" on this thread about magic and what it is, I think immediately of the Greek myth that tells of how Apollo conquered the Python...

Python

For some people, network dude, this is how it is done; maybe in a way the python has become a symbol for this thread, and maybe if you were to go and find out everything that you could about the significance of Apollo conquering and controlling a cthonic Python (the Sun God controlling a raging earth spirit called Python, whatever that may mean), it would yield up some water for your thirst?

Anyhow, it's the kind of stuff that geeks like me are in to, and it's a rather Alchemical approach to working with texts that you might enjoy.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by network dude

 

Magick is the art of inducing change in conformity with the will. This can be interpreted and used in a number of different ways.

Re-quoting this with emphasis so it doesn't get overlooked.

Another way to think about it is, you are surrounded daily by things you would normally consider coincidences. When you start paying attention to them, though, it will seem like they're happening even more often. It's just that you're noticing the ones that were there all along. But by focusing your attention, you can catch the ones that are favorable to your intent, and hopefully take advantage of them rather than letting them slip past.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Goodness!
Like the op, when you just have a question, you have to find someone to ask.
OP you sound to me like you have a geniune curiosity. I learn from the ground up too, not tied to any particular, just more curious of the whole and the why's. It's quite a learning curve.

Kantzveldt, the other thing to consider is what we know as then (your information is always interesting), to the change of aspect of the now.
It is a far gentler thing.

I think (without digressing or confusing the situation) the labeling of 'magic' which would incorporate all those practises previously mentioned, and although age is somewhat important (although i don't personally believe it is) the displays of peoples 'magic' can be measured by the force of a meeting. Some of that is so subtle you know it is powerful and it doesn't come with a convenient label or name tag or book, it just is.

The collective aspects which do work together although they may be unaware, make it a built system, one always improving itself.

Keeping it simple, there are many great books OP, and it is very much like reading your way up a ladder of understanding, this book fertilised my brain quite a while ago (read it twice even), I hope it helps, because the explanation behind the science of colour and light coupled with the senses and evirnoment (entirety), truly shows something, that is at present undefinable. What it does show though, are places of improvement, it's almost like the simplest things were ignored to complicate something fundamentally factual. A woefully inadequate description, I know, sorry. I'm getting over a very bad case of communication constipation.

Babbitt's

Excellent thread

I'll bite and provide you with information you may be looking for, but will likely hear nowhere else. Why? Because most have not studied as indepth as myself, or they simply do not care to take the time to set you on the correct course.

If you want to truly understand magic or as you spell it magick, then you need to first gain a thorough philosophical understanding, as Henry Agrippa said, of various things (particularly philosophy). First, you need a general understanding of philosophy and the various terms and schools of thought. Next, you need to understand the philosophical underpinnings of animism and panpsychism (pansychism has a very long history), and from there you will begin to understand magic. Animism or panpsychism is a major component to understanding magic. If you cannot embrace or at least understand pansychism your efforts to understand magic will fail and never even come close to a true understanding. Magic is based upon the controlling of spirits or "powers" which have some sort of animistic reality, even if you take the more modern magical approach and attribute them to the personal psyche - it is still the same underlying principle which starts in very ancient philosophical underpinnings.

A good start to grasping this understanding is the classic text written by W.Y. Evans-Wentz, The Fairy-Faith In Celtic Countries. If you read the text, you immediately understand that you need to comprehend "animism" if you are to truly understand magic and the belief in various supernatural beings.

If you truly wish to understand magic, then I suggest you take a very serious look at the philosophical arguments for Creatio ex Deo and panpsychism and move on from there. If you can personally "buy it" on a rational level, then you might be capable of understanding magic and how it works; otherwise, you never truly will. This is the base line of magic - panpsychism/animism. Of course, understanding more philosophy helps, but this baseline draws it all out for you.

You will also want to understand Jungian Psychology and perhaps familiarize yourself with the reality of serious Parapsychology, as supporting evidence.

reply to post by HillbillyHippie1

A good start to grasping this understanding is the classic text written by W.Y. Evans-Wentz, The Fairy-Faith In Celtic Countries. If you read the text, you immediately understand that you need to comprehend "animism" if you are to truly understand magic and the belief in various supernatural beings.

Wicked post, man. If I may be so bold, that's why I prefer Spare to A.C.

Cool stuff, it jump started me, thank you.

Im telling you start with yourself. Dont worry about anything else. You need to seriously know yourself before you start. I need to know how to interpret your dreams you need to know what your own symbolism is.

When you start to get real deep your going to need a way to ground out and a way to see whats real and whats not. Its not a joke.

You need to know yourself before you start. You dont need to read someone elses philosophy. That will come into play later.

This isn't for everyone and for people to be telling you how to start and where to start isnt a good idea. The truly adept are able to discover the truth for themselves and they find that truth within themselves.
DO NOT DO ANYTHING UNLESS YOU KNOW YOURSELF FIRST.

reply to post by onequestion


Excellent. "Yes", Plato, or Socrates, or Thales, or whoever (depending on whom you wish to attribute it too) said the first point is "Know Yourself." From there, I would say "Know Your Environment", "Know Your Society", and then "Know Your Craft." Of course, as you see, the great philosophers gave the hints and engraved them on monuments which the Wiccans (and modern neopagans) eventually borrowed and made their creeds (for an obvious reason).

I could go into extreme depth about what these all entail, but that is not topic specific to this post, and frankly it is best that you figure them yourself by figuring out exactly what the First means - "know yourself."

Again, you'd know all of this if you studied enough philosophy, as Henry Agrippa (the author of Occult Philosophy) suggested was needed.

"Know Yourself", and part of that will entail knowing what you wish to believe, which is YOUR truth. You may be quite surprised at what you find if you truly wish to "know yourself." Especially, if your "truth" is to know the objective and actual truth.

reply to post by HillbillyHippie1


Great post and thank you for adding more depth to what i am saying. You sir are very correct and obviously an initiate.

Although i cringe when anyone says neopagan or wiccan, both of those groups make me sad.

I have been reading this thread, (all posts) and kept back to see which way it's Tao would flow and you have luckily received some very good pointers, and definitions.

The Link to occultcorpus.com... is well worth the time and effort to follow, read, and maybe like me finally decide to join after lurking around forever. There are beginners and some(`a few) very skilled Magickians and Sorcerers online there. The Cusp gave you a good site, Use it.

Now, if you really want to understand Chaos Magick, Monty Python is required. (Pun?) Chaos Magick in general isn't for beginners by most opinions in the field. As Enochian.

You asked if there are different 'kinds' of magic and the answer is of course, or why spell it Magick?
I wont get into the anthropological side to much, but that is a good starting point to understanding sympathetic magick. Margaret Alice Murray is your friend there, even if she sometimes is discredited, I loved her when I was a babe in all of this activity.
Today the flavors of Magick are too many to count even if they all rely on the same foundation of primitive need to control the Environment and life.

The Definition by good ol' A.C. is a good one someone has already mentioned. I will state the other A.C. said.

"There is a single main definition of the object of all magical Ritual. It is the uniting of the Microcosm with the Macrocosm. The Supreme and Complete Ritual is therefore the Invocation of the Holy Guardian Angel: or , in the language of Mysticism, Union With God.""

This definition was eclipsed by the more catching, : " Magick is Science and Art of CAUSING CHANGE to occur in conformity with Will. Both are True.

The second thing A.C. brought forth in as scientific fashion as possible in his day, was to use next a postulate to refine the definition before going on to his hundreds of "Theorems" which alone are well worth the time to read, no matter what you think of the Beast himself.

Quoting good A.C. again,
POSTULATE,
"any required CHANGE may be effected by the application of the proper kind and degree of FORCE in the Proper manner through the proper medium to the proper object."
explaining further through chemistry (Alchemy's child) to illustrate. Because A.C. did grasp this was a Science and was trying to show so by using Materialist hard core, 'science'.

Because they are the same,,, just take a minute and look into Quantum Physics. Well,,, maybe more than a minute.

Anyway, A.C. gets the whole New Age Rolling with his first Theorem,, ""EVERY INTENTIONAL ACT IS A MAGICKAL ACT""

sums it up sorta good I have always thought. I know many will try to steer you clear of A.C. but his works are very much the foundation of modern magcik, and I know he stood on the shoulders of giants, but he did bring much together that is worth the time to understand. If you really wish to follow this rabbit hole.

It is Alchemy when the apprentice learns that the spells and rituals are only outward show of an inner process that really takes place in one's psyche. The whole Holy Guardian Angel thing is Your HIGHER SELF, if you wish to borrow from psychology. Which by the way, Carl Gustav Jung will also be of enormous help here.

So, back to what Magick IS?

Affecting CHANGE BY WILL.

It really is about Change.
Someone is poor wants to be rich.
Ugly to beautiful.
or simply someone wants adventure.

If you look at it from a quantum level, It has already been shown in studies that CONSCIOUSNESS affects the Outcome of Experiments by Observation. This should be BIG NEWS, but is downplayed by MSM. What it means for you and me, WE CREATE MUCH OF OUR REALITY BY MEASURE AND OBSERVANCE.
These can be ritualized to have our ''higher'' selves activate within us the FORCE to create the exchange and medium to get said OBJECT of ''desire'.

Of course this is just one way to look at it.

Another example I use with Newbies is akin to the Butterfly effect.
I call it 'changing the universe'.
Vibration is EVERYTHING,, we are Stars because atoms and particles vibrate elements created in the nuclear center of long dead stars in space. Everything is made of light vibrating, and if you could see it with your vision it would look like an ocean of ponds that have had a rock thrown to create waves flowing out, touching each other through infinity. Take a rock and ''throw' it in a different direction causes change to vibrate throughout the universe.
Simply said. Everything Vibrates and IS CONNECTED in this Universe. MOVE (FORCE) One Object AFFECT the WHOLE, using INTENT TO STEER the direction desired. Very simple really.
for example,, when you are a good magickian,, you need no wand, pentacle, chalice or brazer because it is all within you.
Take the nearest object to you, ex: Coffecup, Move it to a location where it will remain untouched again except by you. In theory, you have changed the Universe. Magic Intent steers

I cried at both the Academy and Socrates jail cell regarding this Axiom. It is the REAL Cornerstone of Alchemy and High Magick.

This short sentence will take you far if you follow it's advice.

Originally posted by HillbillyHippie1
reply to post by onequestion

 

Excellent. "Yes", Plato, or Socrates, or Thales, or whoever (depending on whom you wish to attribute it too) said the first point is "Know Yourself." From there, I would say "Know Your Environment", "Know Your Society", and then "Know Your Craft." Of course, as you see, the great philosophers gave the hints and engraved them on monuments which the Wiccans (and modern neopagans) eventually borrowed and made their creeds (for an obvious reason).

I could go into extreme depth about what these all entail, but that is not topic specific to this post, and frankly it is best that you figure them yourself by figuring out exactly what the First means - "know yourself."

Again, you'd know all of this if you studied enough philosophy, as Henry Agrippa (the author of Occult Philosophy) suggested was needed.

"Know Yourself", and part of that will entail knowing what you wish to believe, which is YOUR truth. You may be quite surprised at what you find if you truly wish to "know yourself." Especially, if your "truth" is to know the objective and actual truth.

edit on 3/28/2013 by HillbillyHippie1 because: I can...

reply to post by EarthCitizen23


Hey earth,

Thanks for adding those links i want to check them out. I enjoyed reading your post as you were able to highlight some actual knowledge for us.

"There is a single main definition of the object of all magical Ritual. It is the uniting of the Microcosm with the Macrocosm. The Supreme and Complete Ritual is therefore the Invocation of the Holy Guardian Angel: or , in the language of Mysticism, Union With God.""

Awsome

reply to post by HillbillyHippie1


This is some wonderful advice you give here, and I wish more aspiring players would do as you say.

Excellent Post. I could not have said it better. Even though I did give my two coppers. Excellent advice.

reply to post by onequestion

Those Links are to a AST members profile and the other a good site already mentioned by The Cusp.
Thank you,, looks like a promising thread to garner some good information.

Originally posted by onequestion
Im telling you start with yourself. Dont worry about anything else. You need to seriously know yourself before you start. I need to know how to interpret your dreams you need to know what your own symbolism is.

When you start to get real deep your going to need a way to ground out and a way to see whats real and whats not. Its not a joke.

You need to know yourself before you start. You dont need to read someone elses philosophy. That will come into play later.

This isn't for everyone and for people to be telling you how to start and where to start isnt a good idea. The truly adept are able to discover the truth for themselves and they find that truth within themselves.
DO NOT DO ANYTHING UNLESS YOU KNOW YOURSELF FIRST.

edit on 28-3-2013 by onequestion because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-3-2013 by onequestion because: (no reason given)

This is such excellent magickal advice, and just good psychology. Dreams. a Dream Journal and Learning your own Symbols so to be better at understanding and affecting change in your psyche/universe.

Again as I said before Carl Gustav Jung is the man to find and read his works in this realm of alchemy of mind.
His book MAN AND HIS SYMBOLS is one of my best friends from my early days, it gave me a good foundation into symbolic matters.

My dream journals are the basis of my Magickal process to contact and commune with the Holy Guardian Angel that A.C. spoke of in his works.

Another aspect is building the BODY OF LIGHT,,, but that might take things off topic.. so will refrain.

Good Advice.

Magic.....It has such an intriguing feel to it when you hear it in your head as you say the word.

*Magic*

For me magic is the power of intention and imagination.

Short story that i would define as magic, that happened to me today.

So we have a near by park that I go to enjoy the nature. This particular day was interesting. So I'm sitting on the grass and 2 young ladies in their 20's approach a bench near by me about 30 ft away from where I'm sitting. So I'm enjoying the sun and the nature and I catch a glimpse of one of them. The blonde with a pink dress caught my eye instantenously, as If I knew her my entire life. We met eyes a couple of times and noticed this interesting vibes between us. It was so surreal and beautiful, like a lucid dream. Soon they left and for some reason I felt sad that she left. I regreted not waving or saying hello, like I missed my one train of oppurtunity of meeting her. As I'm telling this to myself, I look up at the blue sky and said "Universe, let her call me......"

It was very direct...I laughed at myself for even saying this. So, I get home and 30 minutes later I recieve an unknown call and I never pick up private calls. So they call again and I don't respond. Third time they call...I pick up and firmly said Hello..a female voice on the other line says hello is this Vahe? And I immediately said...Are you the blonde one or the brunnete? She responds with a "What"? I restate my question and she replies with a blonde...

Long story short...My kind of magic does not involve any rituals or magic wands. It lies deep within oneself and the power of intention and imagination. Today I'm super happy.

reply to post by network dude


Why not try here?:

en.wikipedia.org...

Is it possible that the Magas/mangas a name used to denote a certain sect of males in Greek society, come from the old days when men would go off to a remote island school (of magic) and come back changed men. I tried to find info about the old ancient school there. I found old pdf's once that had pages come from books that were used on the island. Alas, I no longer have them or access to the pages I got them from. I may try to look something up about it for you if I have time. It was considered the OLDEST organized school in history? Of course anyone can say that, whether it is true, who knows?

Magick is the ability to use the godly power you posses to manifest what you desire or simply seek in this lifetime. But then it is not. It is and it isn't. Through learning and experiencing magick, you experience the duality of mankind. The duality of weakness and surrender and of the god within. You see, man wants things... Man wants money, man wants power, women and to have and continue to have for as long as he breathes. Man is a catalyst for lust but the very production of lust. It's hard to realize, but we manifest all that we project with our thoughts and desires whether it be negative or positive. What we lack is the ability to accept. We cannot accept what we have so we vow for more and getting more becomes an invitation for needing more. Magick can only feed into this needy mechanism and feed you the lust you crave. But lust is a cage that dances around you, teasing you the way into freedom but when you get close enough to open the cage door... a part of you wants to dance some more. It becomes slavery and if you get into the world of magick, you would understand its a game entities are playing with you. It's a game and for you to win it, you must be willing not to play it anymore yet it becomes too fun. Magick can materialize your path and transcend it but remember this... you choose the path.
The only danger in performing magick is that you think you are performing it. Your willpower is. You can think you are performing magick to become more spiritual, but secretly will to attract more women into your life. You can think you are performing magick to have more power over people, but actually want to have more peace with yourself. You cannot enter into thie world of magick unless you truly know yourself. It may be hard to believe but over 90% of the people in this world do not know themselves. They are conceptualized versions of themselves... they are what their parents, culture, society has built them to be. That is why most systems of magick teach you to undo this conceptualization from the very start. If you do it right, you will lose your lust for power, greed and sex and end up wanting much different things you had never thought of. If you don't, then you'll continue getting what you want but continue to feel the empty.
I have to go now but if you want to learn more, read robert anton wilson, alesiter crowley (don't listen to what others say about him, they have never read his work because if one truly does... one will realize his genius. he is mocking the people that take some of the things he says seriously. Most people won't be able to understand what he writes anyways, its quite complex), "introduction to hermeticism" pdf on google and oh god there is far too much more. But I am being kicked out of this computer. Bye.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by network dude

 

Magick is the art of inducing change in conformity with the will. This can be interpreted and used in a number of different ways.

Re-quoting this with emphasis so it doesn't get overlooked.

Another way to think about it is, you are surrounded daily by things you would normally consider coincidences. When you start paying attention to them, though, it will seem like they're happening even more often. It's just that you're noticing the ones that were there all along. But by focusing your attention, you can catch the ones that are favorable to your intent, and hopefully take advantage of them rather than letting them slip past.

edit on 2013.3.28 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)

That is a very adept explanation. Approved. Nice.

reply to post by PurpleVortex


I always love your posts.

Your words always just place perfectly to produce a smile. Honest.

I can tell you're a bit magical, Namaste.

Originally posted by Druid42
reply to post by PurpleVortex

 

I always love your posts.

Your words always just place perfectly to produce a smile. Honest.

I can tell you're a bit magical, Namaste.

Thank you Druid I'm glad I can make someone smile around here...