Muslim leaders say - Muslims are Above U.S. law and - Do Not - have to obey Our Laws

You know, I personally have my own complaints and problems with the Muslim community, because of the conflicts we have where I live, but reading some of these replies almost pushes me to defend them!

I don't blame them Muslims for not answering here, people would not be able to grasp what they say, obviously!

By the logic of some of these posters, if they foudn themselves in a coutnry where the law says you must cut off the fingers of any person you cross on the street and they don't say hello to you, they would do it? None of you would say, "I won't do it, because it is against what my religion says, and how I believe God wants me to treat others."

I find it hard to believe, on a conspiracy site, that so many have a strict belief in following the laws and rules of whatever authority is in place without using any discernment or thought?????

If so many believe that the ultimately judge of universal ethic is the US governments, either state or federal,
than I can see why you worry you just might be fooled and manipulated....

reply to post by Bluesma


So you don't believe in the ideologies the US was founded upon?

You don't believe in a democratic form of representive government?

You don't believe in individual rights, trial by a jury of ones peers?

You believe wise religious leader should be calling the shots? Because they have some sort straight line to God?

Or do you believe the laws of the people should be establish by the people so that they are as fair as possible.

reply to post by poet1b


I am not into beliefs.

If you mean preferences, yes, I have some. That has absolutely nothing to do with this though.

The feelings and points of view of these people is being misrepresented and twisted.

Are your preferences Gods preferences?
Are they universal, static, sacred?

-Would you dump them and reject them if you went into a country that didn't value them?

Reply to post by Bluesma

They should be allowed to whatever they feel like, after all they ain't catholic or christians. They have proven to world what they are capable of and should be give total control over Usa. :p


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

I don’t know if anyone else has already said this but why is it on ATS that anything that has to do with Islam automatically gets put into the “War on Terrorism” forum.

I really don’t think that there is anything about this that screams terrorism to me, it’s just an extreme rant about how Sharia.

To me this is a social issue not a terrorism issue.

Just because they pray to Allah and reed form a book written in a language you can’t understand does not make them all terrorists.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
I don’t know if anyone else has already said this but why is it on ATS that anything that has to do with Islam automatically gets put into the “War on Terrorism” forum.

I really don’t think that there is anything about this that screams terrorism to me, it’s just an extreme rant about how Sharia.

To me this is a social issue not a terrorism issue.

Just because they pray to Allah and reed form a book written in a language you can’t understand does not make them all terrorists.

Of course not. Only the Muslim extremists turn out to become terrorists, not all Muslims. This was already stated earlier. However an extremist leader saying to his followers they are above U.S, law and implying they do not have to follow it, can lead people to commit terrorists acts.

There are many tenets of Sharia Law that teach the followers to practice acts of terrorism - it's different from any other religion on the planet in that respect and therefore must be treated as something to guard against.

There are many Muslim organizations that do not adhere to the extremist Sharia view because they believe the words of the Quran has been twisted for an un-Allah like agenda. They even believe these extremists that follow Sharia are terrorists. No one is lumping all Muslims into the same group, least of all me.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Why do you think it is wrong for a religious man to say that the religious laws he believes to have been passed onto him through his holly book by his God are above the laws of man.

You might not agree with these laws, you might even call some of them barbaric but just because his believes are different to yours does not mean that you should call him a terrorist or potential terrorist. I can’t think of anything in the Sharia that would be counted as a terrorist act as set out under American law, a criminal one perhaps but not a terrorist act. The use of violence being advocated in the name of religion is not unique to Islam, just look at the history of Christianity and the principle of an eye for an eye.

All I am saying is that this topic does not belong in this forum it should be in a social issues forum because that is what this is about.

reply to post by Bluesma


I would not live in a country that does not value my beliefs, and that is pretty much every Islamic controlled nation.

The thing is, if you move to a country that does not value your beliefs, you still should respect their beliefs, or move to another country.

And if you refuse to respect their beliefs, you deserve to get kicked out.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


i do not trust anyone who feels that they have the right to force their religious beliefs on me or my family, my community, my country.

When the person in questions beliefs are that our women are whores because they don't cover themselves from head to toe, they are completely against my beliefs.

I don't want the guy living next door, because I don't trust him.

All I hear on this thread is that we must tolerate them, but they do not have to tolerate us, or respect our beliefs in the nation they have chosen to live.

Here's an interesting thought.

The Pope went to Africa and told people there to NOT use condoms, because it would make aids worse.

The Catholic church, routinely attempts to tell the rest of the world how to live, what laws to follow etc. It's no different than what's going on here.

No different than the WBC screaming kill all the gays and burn soldiers. Extremist, is extremists.

The only difference is how well dressed your media conglomerates make the stories.

~Tenth

reply to post by poet1b


If that is how you feel about it then fair enough but my experience of Muslims is that they mostly keep themselves to themselves and don’t try to force their religion upon me in anyway. Sure they have their bad apples like any other group in society but I have actually yet to meet a Muslim I don’t link. I can’t say the same about a lot of other groups in society.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Here's an interesting thought.

The Pope went to Africa and told people there to NOT use condoms, because it would make aids worse.

The Catholic church, routinely attempts to tell the rest of the world how to live, what laws to follow etc. It's no different than what's going on here.

No different than the WBC screaming kill all the gays and burn soldiers. Extremist, is extremists.

The only difference is how well dressed your media conglomerates make the stories.

~Tenth

Tenth that is more a suggestion or request in actuality. the Pope did not call for excommunication of people who used condoms did he? If he did not say this was a edict it was not anything more than a opinion.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


Until the numbers increase to a certain point, and then they start harassing women.

History says different.

But maybe this is your own prejudice.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


ABSOLUTELY INDEED. The double standard reeks.

The irrationality reeks.

The hypocrisy reeks.

I'm sure the apologists for the demonic moon god tribal religion that predates the founder of Islam by centuries have already been defending such horrors.

I don't recall in all of recorded history any other era where any culture willfully committed suicide like Western culture is.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


That's standard operating procedure . . . advocated in the founding documents

UNTIL they have enough political and/or military might to impose their will.

Wake-up, folks.

Over the past decade I have been ask more times than I can remember if I thought there was any comparison between radical Islam and Nazism, which some tend to believe was,and still is, a Pseudoreligion or pseudotheology.

Radical Islam is rooted in beliefs that are interpretations of established more modern, or mainstream, visions of the Koran. These interpretations are singular in nature and require followers to embellish others to a more radical view.

Nazism was rooted in a militaristic, racial interpretation of National Socialism in which a classless system granted each member no more, or no less, than the other. Therefore, the State, equalized the needs of all in a manner that eliminated those it thought were inferior, in a political spirit of Nationalism, in which all were as important as the other, if they met the requirements of the classless system. I don't think I need to expound on what those requirements were.

This is, of course an ideology, not necessarily a movement, which was so important to the building of radical Islam.

Ironically, the one distinction they share, is these entities morphed out of what they were intended to be. Perhaps, it is best said that these systems/movements may or may not have been perfect to begin with. However, what is not in doubt is the imperfections of their respected leaders-or how their leadership doomed the movement.

One only needs to read the comments of defeated Generals or captured Al-Qaeda fighters to see the common feeling that "What we became was not what I signed up for"

This is essentially the question. It is easy for Muslims to see America as a country that has itself totally morphed out of what was intended to be. They see an infinitesimal system of have and have not, rich with power, poor with none, a political system geared by greed and class distinction, and above all the treatment of women as mirror images intended only for the production and sales of this system of greed.

I don't see this as a political digress to our laws. It's more personal and radical to see these laws as an influence upon their religion.

This of course is analytical assessment not a personal one.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Bluesma

 

I would not live in a country that does not value my beliefs, and that is pretty much every Islamic controlled nation.

The thing is, if you move to a country that does not value your beliefs, you still should respect their beliefs, or move to another country.

And if you refuse to respect their beliefs, you deserve to get kicked out.

That is exactly my sentiment.

But you express the exact same sentiment as they- you too, are not willing to just throw out your deeply held beliefs on what is wrong and right, just to please other humans, are you? It's called integrity.

That is not shocking or evil- that is pretty normal, and I kind of prefer that to the cameleon-types who adapt to manipulate others all the time, salesman-style.

I don't think it is a good idea for them to choose to live in environments that are not supportive of their personal beliefs, views and values.

But I say the same thing to people who are NOT Muslim, and complain about where they are- how they don't like the President, the laws, the things that were voted in by the majority. Why don't they just shut up and go somewhere in the world better adapted to what they want to live, like I did?

Because, they say, life is complicated. It isn't so easy to pick up and go somewhere else and start over. They are right, it isn't. But it is possible. But the fear of making big change like that is not limited to Muslims, not at all.

Tons of non-muslim americans are at odds with their environment. (heck, half of them are probably members of this site!)

Something Ironic about the preference for democracy, that you wrote of as if it is a given that it is always "good" or something-
In some countries, the muslims are taking over precisely because of Democratic process!
They have many wives and reproduce rapidly, so in some european countries, they are already at fifty percent or more of the population in some big cities. See, it is in their interest that we cling to democracy, because it is our achilles heel.

reply to post by Bluesma


Here you get to the root of the problem.

Something Ironic about the preference for democracy, that you wrote of as if it is a given that it is always "good" or something-
In some countries, the muslims are taking over precisely because of Democratic process!
They have many wives and reproduce rapidly, so in some european countries, they are already at fifty percent or more of the population in some big cities. See, it is in their interest that we cling to democracy, because it is our achilles heel.

Democracy is a terrible choice, until one considers the alternatives.

The solution is shut down immigration, and start deporting the radicals as quickly as possible. Create laws that prevent this process, but insuring the rights of their women, and the freedom of their women.

Another thing, it is acceptable to Muslims to deceive non-Muslims, so the integrity rule does not apply.

reply to post by Bluesma


Here you get to the root of the problem.

Something Ironic about the preference for democracy, that you wrote of as if it is a given that it is always "good" or something-
In some countries, the muslims are taking over precisely because of Democratic process!
They have many wives and reproduce rapidly, so in some european countries, they are already at fifty percent or more of the population in some big cities. See, it is in their interest that we cling to democracy, because it is our achilles heel.

Democracy is a terrible choice, until one considers the alternatives.

The solution is shut down immigration, and start deporting the radicals as quickly as possible. Create laws that prevent this process, but insuring the rights of their women, and the freedom of their women.

Another thing, it is acceptable to Muslims to deceive non-Muslims, so the integrity rule does not apply.

reply to post by poet1b

Another thing, it is acceptable to Muslims to deceive non-Muslims, so the integrity rule does not apply.

Here are some statements from Jews regarding gentiles...

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies to circumvent a Gentile.

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile the wages owed him for work.

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile it does not have to be returned.

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile, there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

So what now, can one make the argument that it is acceptable for Jews to deceive non-Jews... and thereby label all Jews as deceptive?