It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Complaint box: Christians

page: 5
0
<< 2  3  4   >>

log in

join
share:
Cug

posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 04:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by saint4God

I didn't know it was Wiccan slang, learn something new every day. Regarding xtian, I can say that I don't follow x, nor read from the teachings of x. I don't see where x died from my sins nor rose from the tomb to pay the penalty thereof.


Just to clarify my statement a bit. The X is from the Greek for Christ χριστός (Christós) and many Greek Orthodox churches still use χρ to represent Christ.

So it didn't start with the various neo-pagan groups that seem to use it the most now.




posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 04:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by Cug
Just to clarify my statement a bit. The X is from the Greek for Christ χριστός (Christós) and many Greek Orthodox churches still use χρ to represent Christ.

So it didn't start with the various neo-pagan groups that seem to use it the most now.


Ah yes, the chi-rho. The symbol is comprised of two parts, not one, with x being only one letter. No doubt if someone said they worship xp these days, they'd think they were a follower of Bill Gates. Still, I don't call the goddess "mama g" or a satanist "s-worshippers". No doubt they'd not take kindly if I did, nor is it an accurate description.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 07:45 PM
link   


What is an xian

for me its lazy short hand ay 4am.




And why are they using your symbol?


It is not "ours" it has been used by many for centuries. up through the 10th or 11th century(possibly longer) it was used by many sects of christians as a symbol for protection. Many still use it to symbolize the 5 wounds of Christ. It is also a rememberance of the 8 year cycle of the planet/Goddess Venus. To many people
it is a symbol of perfection because of its construction and the relation with the
golden ratio. As I mentioned before I have found at last count +- 520 different
meanings associated with the Pentagram.






I don't call the goddess "mama g"


personally I prefer Grandmother or The Great Mother. Idont have a problem
with Mama G if it works for you. Just so long as you dont have a problem with
" Mary wiyh the cherry and the spook."


[q]It is important to validate sources. The New International Version was an 8 year project that was translated by over 100 Biblical scholars. They could read the original Hebrew and Greek texts so it's the one I trust the most. A believer should not be relying solely on the Book, rather should have a personal relationship with the living God, keeping in contact with Him and checking with Him constantly[/q]

S4G, Did you miss this question or did I miss your reply?


What about The Jesus Seminar and the suggestions made by them? It was a study
conducted by over 250 (as I recall) scholars many of whom were retired clergy



posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 09:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
It is not "ours" it has been used by many for centuries. up through the 10th or 11th century(possibly longer) it was used by many sects of christians as a symbol for protection.


I'd like to hear more about this, can you recommend some substantial, free resources?



Many still use it to symbolize the 5 wounds of Christ.


How is this count made?



It is also a rememberance of the 8 year cycle of the planet/Goddess Venus. To many people it is a symbol of perfection because of its construction and the relation with the golden ratio. As I mentioned before I have found at last count +- 520 different meanings associated with the Pentagram.


I've heard of variants on a theme, but not any that are in opposition as appears to be the case for me between Christianity and the pentagram. Christianity at one time was attempting to adopt, acquire and incorporate pagan symbols, but that does not make them Christian, nor does the Bible encourage this practice.



personally I prefer Grandmother or The Great Mother. Idont have a problem
with Mama G if it works for you.


I find it disrespectful even though I don't share the belief.



Just so long as you dont have a problem with
" Mary wiyh the cherry and the spook."


And if I do? It's not an "up in arm, yelling hysteria" problem, just have issue with the connotations thereof as being inaccurate.

The Holy Ghost is beautiful and comforting...which is the opposite of a spooky, which by second definition means nervous and skittish. We even take it as far as to mean scarey.



S4G, Did you miss this question or did I miss your reply?


I think I may have missed this question. Can we try again please?



What about The Jesus Seminar and the suggestions made by them? It was a study
conducted by over 250 (as I recall) scholars many of whom were retired clergy


I'm not sure if I've heard of it before or not. Would you be able to provide more information please?

[edit on 1-9-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 07:01 PM
link   
my views on the negative aspects of christianity; i am a christian myself
i believe all systems of togetherness are by default open to means of control, corruption opression, or what have you. the bigger the system the bigger the corruption. christianity is victim to much of this. the values of such are rewritten as to benefit the means of the rewriters. a zealot preacher trying to push his book or agenda will say his ideals are perfect, so he can profit from it. a ruler will use it to pass his agendas so he can rule as he pleases. and then you always have the 'satanists' or what have you who will just plain try to piss all over everything just to abhore chaos, downplay the teachings of the system to benifit his own. it is a complex web, sometimes the best you can do is to fine tune your bullcrap detector, listen to your heart and soul and use the great teachings of christianity to better your life and those of others.



posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 07:07 AM
link   
The Official site for the Jesus Seminar is Jesus Seminar. Several of the books are or were available through the public library.

One of them I had a problem with and didnt finish. In it Mr. Funk was comparing 3
translations of verses or sayings I just dont recall at this time. The problem for me was
they color coded the versions. Great except that I am Color blind and they chose the 3
colors that i have the most problem with, so I couldnt tell the difference in them.

You can find almost as many sites (pro and con) online as there are about Masons.




How is this count made?

Head Hands and Feet or more common Hands Feet and Side.





I'd like to hear more about this, can you recommend some substantial, free resources?


I will try and locate some of the resources. At the time I started my research
there were several books available in our public libraries ( Las Vegas and N.Las Vegas Nv) on "occult and symbolism" . Unfortunately over a 2 year period I personally saw books disappear and books mutilated and defaced by fundamentalist
christians. ( and yes this is a fact not speculation. They left their business cards in
the damaged books). After that all of the remaining resources were moved into
"special reference libraries" , available on request only. Then you were escorted into
the room , you chose A book,only 1 at a time. you could then sit at a table with a library employee present at all times and read the book. when finished that book was returned to the locked cabinet and you could use another.

as I recall there was a discussion here or ATS of a sect that painted it on their barns and such.

I will try to find my remaining notes ( most of my older ones were lost in a house fire in 96). I will let you know of my progress.



posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 06:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by Cug

Just to clarify my statement a bit. The X is from the Greek for Christ χριστός (Christós) and many Greek Orthodox churches still use χρ to represent Christ.

So it didn't start with the various neo-pagan groups that seem to use it the most now.



This is incorrect information. The Chi-Rho is indeed a pagan symbol. It is the Egyptian Labarum.

Pontifex Maximus sun god worshiper Constantine mergered paganism and Christianity in the Catholic religion.



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 11:45 AM
link   
It looks like this is an undetermined controversy as far as origins go. It seems to be commonly the case, the argument by which these things came about. I just got done reading was apprears to me to be a biased slanted source that claims the same... as well as God meaning "sexual union or mating". Skew, spin spin by a pseudo-linguist found at www.ancientworlds.net...

Anywho, can we get back to basics?

Galatians 6:14
"May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world."


[edit on 5-9-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 11:54 AM
link   
Most of my family is Christian, some very fundementalist in belief, others more moderate. They tend not to tolerate my faith, Paganism, and even tell me to remove holy sumbols such as moons and pentacles in their presence. I stopped doing that, because Ive never asked them to remove bibles or Christian things from my sight.

I still believe Christians have the right to believe as they wish, including being intolerant of homosexuality, provided they do not force their views as law. I dont believe the government should be able to force Christians to violate their own morals, and the government should stay out of Christian affairs, and Christians stay out of government law-making.

I dont think Christians as a whole are bad, or fools, as I believe everyone's faith is right for them, and there are many paths and way to see the divine. Its fundementalist dogmatic jerks who would have us living under levtical law that I despise and fight, or judgemental, holier than though jerks who harrass and abuse other faiths.

Beyond that, over the years I have become more tolerant towards Christians, which I used to not be, which was rather hypocritical. I try not to bash Christianity as a faith anymore, although i do it sometimes when Im arguing with some dogma blinded rabid fundie who thinks anyone who is not Christian is scum.



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 12:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Most of my family is Christian, some very fundementalist in belief, others more moderate. They tend not to tolerate my faith, Paganism, and even tell me to remove holy sumbols such as moons and pentacles in their presence. I stopped doing that, because Ive never asked them to remove bibles or Christian things from my sight.


I think it should be fair. If they wear crosses and have Bibles, it should be equal that you can wear your symbols and have your books so long as they're not charmed/imbued to effect others. Personally I don't like how the word "fundamental" is misused. I think fundamental means foundational, that is relying on God as the source and the Bible as information to accompany one's walk...but these days "fundamental" has become as derogatory as pompous jerk.



I still believe Christians have the right to believe as they wish, including being intolerant of homosexuality, provided they do not force their views as law. I dont believe the government should be able to force Christians to violate their own morals, and the government should stay out of Christian affairs, and Christians stay out of government law-making.


I believe one job the government has is to protect the people and their right to worship as they please so long as it does not violate the rights of others. This is not the same thing as "separation of church and state" because the government is made up of people too and should not have to revoke their beliefs to serve the public.



I dont think Christians as a whole are bad, or fools, as I believe everyone's faith is right for them, and there are many paths and way to see the divine. Its fundementalist dogmatic jerks


See what I mean? Fundamentalist does not mean dogmatic nor jerk.

Main Entry: fun·da·men·tal·ism
Pronunciation: -t&-"li-z&m
Function: noun
1 a often capitalized : a movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasizing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching b : the beliefs of this movement c : adherence to such beliefs
www.m-w.com...



who would have us living under levtical law that I despise and fight, or judgemental, holier than though jerks who harrass and abuse other faiths.


If they read their Book, they would not do this. A fundamentalist, who does read the Book, would KNOW what Christ says about these things. A non-fundamentalist would not know because they have no foundation.



Beyond that, over the years I have become more tolerant towards Christians, which I used to not be, which was rather hypocritical. I try not to bash Christianity as a faith anymore, although i do it sometimes when Im arguing with some dogma blinded rabid fundie


*sigh* Okay, let's try this. I'm a fundamentalist. Are we arguing? Am I dogmatic? Blinded? Rabid? A jerk?



who thinks anyone who is not Christian is scum.


...which is ironic really because nobody is born a Christian.

[edit on 5-9-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 12:26 PM
link   
I would not consider you a fundementalist, saint. Fundementalism has come a long way from what you might believe it to be.

Today fundementalism is a political tool or a tool of control. Fundementalists of today are like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Pat Buchannan, ect.

I dont have problems with Christians in government. I have a problem when they try to enforce prayer in school, or religous teaching, or denying rights to people based on faith or sexual orientation or gender ect.



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 12:31 PM
link   
I have no problem with Christians and I am a Pagan and atheist.
I believe many Christians are genuinely serious in their faith and follow the teachings of the Bible. If it makes them a better person and more confident that they will enjoy an afterlife of serenity and contentment and reuinite with friends and family previously deceased let them believe they are destined for a future with their maker.
We are all entitled to our delusions or illusions. I belive Christianity is manipulative but so are other cultural and global faiths.
A fear of an eternity in hell with the prospect of no reprieve has always been a psychological hook to reel in the indecisive individual believe they will gain from the custody of a caring and benevolent society in the afterlife overseen by a higher concsciousness.
I wish all Christians well in thier intentions but this path is not for many of us. I do not intend to waste my time and life in this present existence trying to gain 'brownie points' to enter into a sphere of concsiousness I do not believe exists.



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 12:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
I would not consider you a fundementalist, saint. Fundementalism has come a long way from what you might believe it to be.


But according to the definition, I am. So...either the definition needs to change, or the people do to match the definition.



Today fundementalism is a political tool or a tool of control. Fundementalists of today are like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Pat Buchannan, ect.


I believe we'd find mislabels under any label.



I dont have problems with Christians in government. I have a problem when they try to enforce prayer in school, or religous teaching, or denying rights to people based on faith or sexual orientation or gender ect.


Understandable. I have issue with people re-defining the dictionary unless they go through a scholarly process to do so though. If according to sexual orientation, a couple wants to have certain rights that married people do, I don't see any problem with that. Call it whatever you'd like (Civil union, legal right, etc.) but the definition of marriage is still:



Main Entry: mar·riage
Pronunciation: 'mer-ij, 'ma-rij
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry
1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law

www.m-w.com...

Further, it began as and maintains a religious institution. Don't know what the state or fed have anything to do with it in the first place.

[edit on 5-9-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 12:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by anglosaxon
A fear of an eternity in hell with the prospect of no reprieve has always been a psychological hook to reel in the indecisive individual believe they will gain from the custody of a caring and benevolent society in the afterlife overseen by a higher concsciousness.


I disagree. If you don't believe in God, or Hell, then there's no "hook to reel" anybody. Tell an unbeliever "you're going to Hell!" and their response is "there is no such place". The "hook to reel" is giving someone the faith and proof to know if there is a God and Hell in the first place. Just being candid. I'd be glad to help someone obtain that faith and proof to know if they're interested. For those genuinely interested, send a U2U. I'd much rather someone want to come to God out of the love of their creator than for any other reason. That's a true relationship, not one ruled by fear. Ask a domestically abused spouse if you believe otherwise.



I wish all Christians well in thier intentions but this path is not for many of us. I do not intend to waste my time and life in this present existence trying to gain 'brownie points' to enter into a sphere of concsiousness I do not believe exists.


The good news is, a person doesn't have a need to "earn brownie points" in Christianity. Eternal life is a free gift:

"...but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." - Romans 6:23

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." - Ephesians 2:8

[edit on 5-9-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 02:33 PM
link   
The J.S. is now down to about 70 "scholars", all mainly from America so they can't claim they speak for the broader world of theology and its studies.

The JS has concluded, through such scientific measures as "bead casting", that Jesus could not have said 80% of the things attributed to Him in the Gospels. Why?

Well because the JS "scholars" deny anything supernatural can occur. They hold that there are no miracles THUS anything attributed to Jesus in the manner of prophecy, claiming to be Divine, the forgiving of sin, miracles, including raising from the dead, are complete hogwash. Those things were "added" to the true historical Jesus to make Him out to be the Messiah.

They come to these conclusions based on their presuppositions that Jesus is not God therefore everything in the Gospels that hint at Him being God COULD NOT be true. Oddly enough they do though ADD the Gospel Of Thomas to the other four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John even though the overwhelming evidence presented by scholars around the world state that the Gospel of Thomas is Gnostic literature that copies or paraphrases the 4 gospels, not the other way around as the JS scholars believe.

Crossan and Funk, IMHO, are no scholars.




top topics



 
0
<< 2  3  4   >>

log in

join