Complaint box: Christians

I hate labels for people. I really do. There's not much info imparted with the use of a label, mainly (IMHO) because there's no agreement about what they mean.

I can't agree more.
And there are so many that call themselves Christians that are doing the opposite of what the bible says. It blows me away.

"Christians" is such a huge and diverse category of people that it's hard to say anything about them, good or bad, that doesn't have many exceptions.

However, if the above is taken as a qualifier, I may say that one of the most annoying things about a lot of Christians is that they seem to have a collective persecution complex and believe that people hate them or don't like them because of their religion. This seems to be an article of faith with a lot of Christians and I suppose it may stem in part from the mythic history of persecution in Roman pagan times. But wherever it comes from, the conviction seems to persist even in cultures where Christianity is by far the majority religion and in no danger of being persecuted or even significantly unpopular.

Frankly, it's kind of weird.

I haven't read through all the things people said, but in my experience, I have met many Christians that seem to think all other religions except their own are totally worthless. This really bugs me, even though I am a strong believer in my own religion, I try to look for the good in all faiths, and I think there's quite a bit out there in almost every religion. The only 'religion' I ever come bashing down hard on is scientology, but that's a whole other ball of wax. I actually got told once by a friend of mine who is a muslim that I was 'the most tolerant christian he had ever met', and I found that incredibly surprising, even though I feel I am rather tolerant; the reason I found it surprising was that it was such a rare thing for him to encounter.

I have seen some people who feel that living in middle-class America (my country) deciding which restaraunt to drive their SUV to because they've had a "hard" day of work in an air-conditioned office...is "persecution". I'm afraid most of us Americans don't understand what persecution means. Christians in other countries are threatened and killed. This is persecution:

"An estimated 400 Christians have been killed during peaceful and prayerful demonstrations by Christians in the Central Highlands of Vietnam."
www.ekklesia.co.uk...

"Gunmen entered the offices of a Christian welfare organization in the southern port city of Karachi on Wednesday, tying office workers to their chairs and shooting each of them in the head at close range, police and intelligence officials said. At least seven people were killed and another was critically injured. "
www.cbsnews.com...

"At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.

While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep." - Acts 7:57-60

Christians are not the only group of people to suffer persecution, but the difference is that 1.) we're told to expect it to happen and 2.) we're told to pray for our persecutors, not seek vengence, feel anger or hatred.

"But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you," - Matthew 5:44

The knee-jerk reaction to that verse probably is "no way! They're trying to harm me!" but in all actuality there is great wisdom in asking for love to be sent to those who don't have it.

I agree that we as Christians should not be crying "persecution" with all the blessings we have and the promise of eternal life, rather we should be more like Stephen, praying for those who do not have these things.

Regarding tolerance, I have also seen people avoid others because they were afraid of their beliefs...basically they simply did not know and did not want to get involved. I'm not sure if it was because they were afraid of going astray or what, but I'd known many before I was a believer who were from different faiths. From Satanic, to Wiccan, to Bhuddist, to Methodist. That hasn't changed. I'm not going to nod and smile when I think they're making false statements, but I'm also not going to tell them what they should believe. There's been discussion about not wearing religious symbols in public and at work because the people of this country don't want to "offend" anyone. Is there a better way to generate ignorance? Wear your symbol, post your pictures, talk about what you believe. I'd rather talk to someone wearing a pentagram than for them to secretly hide it and play guessing games. The symbol tells me a lot and understanding is almost instantaneous. Doesn't mean I agree, but at least I know where they stand. Otherwise, we have only rumors and misconceptions about what a belief entails.

[edit on 25-8-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Two Steps Forward
But wherever it comes from, the conviction seems to persist even in cultures where Christianity is by far the majority religion and in no danger of being persecuted or even significantly unpopular.

Christian persecution in the world is real. In the US it's becoming more evident. You realize that laws against what a christian believes is right, is persecution to some degree. Abortion being legal in the US is a troubling aspect for christians. Yesterday when approval came for the Plan B pill to be over the counter and easier to get, shows the drive to continue this persecution by enacting laws that go against what a christian believes.

I also find it interesting that the announcement of the Plan B pill happened yesterday, the same day that a tropical depression formed that could lead to the first hurricane of the Atlantic season. We shall see what developes in this regard.

Originally posted by saint4GodI agree that we as Christians should not be crying "persecution" with all the blessings we have and the promise of eternal life, rather we should be more like Stephen, praying for those who do not have these things.

Excuse me, but while the above may be correct, it is not exactly what I was talking about. What you are suggesting is that some Christians may take the wrong attitude when they ARE being persecuted. What I'm talking about is Christians thinking they're being persecuted when they AREN'T.

I'm talking about the people who seem to think of Christians as an oppressed minority in the United States, where they constitute the religious majority. I'm talking about people thinking that a lack of organized prayer in school, or their kids being taught evolution, or the denial of privileged status and special recognition by government agencies, constitutes persecution.

No. Christians being stoned in Judea, thrown to the lions in ancient Rome, or shot in their churches in Vietnam is persecution. Denying Christianity privileged status and special recognition by the government isn't persecution, it's protection of non-Christian religions FROM potential persecution.

Wear your symbol, post your pictures, talk about what you believe. I'd rather talk to someone wearing a pentagram than for them to secretly hide it and play guessing games. The symbol tells me a lot and understanding is almost instantaneous. Doesn't mean I agree, but at least I know where they stand. Otherwise, we have only rumors and misconceptions about what a belief entails.

In general, I would agree with this, but with a couple of provisos. If a Pagan (say) is a government official serving in his or her official capacity, then openly sporting a pentagram would be inappropriate, because it would communicate that the government agency he/she represents endorses Neopaganism, which according to the Constitution government agencies are forbidden to do.

Also, there is a right place and time for all of that sort of thing. Religious controversy in the workplace can be disruptive to getting the job done. And while wearing a pentagram (or cross, Star of David, om caligraphy, or whatever) is not in itself disruptive, I have seen some people who engage in behavior that IS disruptive cry persecution (that word again) when denied the privilege of openly displaying religious literature or symbols in the workplace.

Originally posted by dbrandtChristian persecution in the world is real. In the US it's becoming more evident. You realize that laws against what a christian believes is right, is persecution to some degree. Abortion being legal in the US is a troubling aspect for christians. Yesterday when approval came for the Plan B pill to be over the counter and easier to get, shows the drive to continue this persecution by enacting laws that go against what a christian believes.

See, this is exactly the kind of attitude I'm talking about.

Persecution is denial of people's rights -- right to life, to liberty, to freedom of worship, and so on. And so, while it is true that perscution of Christians in the world is real (Saint4God gave us a couple of examples of it), "laws against what a Christian believes is right" are NOT persecution. Not even "to some degree." Because the privilege of having all of a nation's laws be in accord with what one believes is NOT your right. And so denying you that is not denying you your rights, and is not persecution.

Originally posted by Two Steps Forward
Excuse me, but while the above may be correct, it is not exactly what I was talking about. What you are suggesting is that some Christians may take the wrong attitude when they ARE being persecuted. What I'm talking about is Christians thinking they're being persecuted when they AREN'T.

I was speaking about both. Sorry for being unclear.

Originally posted by Two Steps Forward
I'm talking about the people who seem to think of Christians as an oppressed minority in the United States, where they constitute the religious majority. I'm talking about people thinking that a lack of organized prayer in school, or their kids being taught evolution, or the denial of privileged status and special recognition by government agencies, constitutes persecution.

No. Christians being stoned in Judea, thrown to the lions in ancient Rome, or shot in their churches in Vietnam is persecution. Denying Christianity privileged status and special recognition by the government isn't persecution, it's protection of non-Christian religions FROM potential persecution.

Agreed, which is what I meant about the SUV/restaraunt example.

Originally posted by Two Steps Forward
In general, I would agree with this, but with a couple of provisos. If a Pagan (say) is a government official serving in his or her official capacity, then openly sporting a pentagram would be inappropriate, because it would communicate that the government agency he/she represents endorses Neopaganism, which according to the Constitution government agencies are forbidden to do.

Fair enough I think.

Originally posted by Two Steps Forward
Also, there is a right place and time for all of that sort of thing. Religious controversy in the workplace can be disruptive to getting the job done. And while wearing a pentagram (or cross, Star of David, om caligraphy, or whatever) is not in itself disruptive, I have seen some people who engage in behavior that IS disruptive cry persecution (that word again) when denied the privilege of openly displaying religious literature or symbols in the workplace.

I've worked in two financial institutions. The first refused to allow any religious dispaly due to "insensitivity to the beliefs of others". The one I'm at now let's me show a cross around my neck and the cubicle down the way pin up Shiva and Krishna (which is currently the case). Out of the two, I feel a lot more freedom to "be myself" here instead of a supressed mind-controlled corporate robot as I did before. Others have crosses and Christ pictured on their desk, others have a statue of Bhudda. Guess what? No fights. That's true diversity and respect for human life.

[edit on 25-8-2006 by saint4God]

I think people should have the freedom to believe whatever they like.

The problem with Christians is they actually believe they are 100% correct*. They base all of their claims on an ancient book which is filled with contradictions and could have been rewritten and altered who knows how many times over the centuries.

Science tells us the world is not 6000 years old. If you don't accept at least a certain amount of scientific truth then you need to examine yourself more objectively. Stop driving your car and talking on your phone. Go back to crapping in the woods and see how far you can make it without science!

But the whole 6000 year thing really doesn't bother me so much. It's more of the fact that our reality is based on cause and effect. It is not based on right and wrong. What is right to one person could be interpreted as wrong by another.

Next time you look in the mirror realize that IF GOD EXISTS it would require nothing from you. Going to church on sundays and singing and praising God would do nothing for such a creative being/force/concept/law/whatever it is......

THE ONLY THING God could possibly want from you is simple.... experience. Whether the experience is "good" or "bad" is completely irrelevant. So next time you look in the mirror realize that your eyes are God's eyes. Your ears are God's ears. Your sense of smell is God's sense of smell. Etc! The sole purpose (if there is one at all) for living creatures (whether it be you, your cat, or extraterrestrials) is to EXPERIENCE this particularly reality.

Here... read this book. It's quite good.

www.amazon.com...=8-1/qid=1156525127/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-1042898-5064849?ie=UTF8




*I would note that people who annoy me (by believing they are 100% correct) are not limited to Christians. It is anyone who believes they actually know the mind of God etc.. I have talked to Islamists, atheists etc who have the same annoying mindset. The point is to admit you know nothing and to keep learning something.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
I think people should have the freedom to believe whatever they like.

The problem with Christians is they actually believe they are 100% correct*.

*I would note that people who annoy me (by believing they are 100% correct) are not limited to Christians. It is anyone who believes they actually know the mind of God etc.. I have talked to Islamists, atheists etc who have the same annoying mindset. The point is to admit you know nothing and to keep learning something.

I appreciate the footnote and agree there's a fundamental flaw with thinking a person is 100% correct in Christianity. According to their own book, God is the One who is 100% correct.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
They base all of their claims on an ancient book which is filled with contradictions

There are a good number of threads that talk about things that appear to some to be contradictory. Although it wasn't the goal of this thread, I'd be interested to review what contradictions you see.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
and could have been rewritten and altered who knows how many times over the centuries.

It is important to validate sources. The New International Version was an 8 year project that was translated by over 100 Biblical scholars. They could read the original Hebrew and Greek texts so it's the one I trust the most. A believer should not be relying solely on the Book, rather should have a personal relationship with the living God, keeping in contact with Him and checking with Him constantly.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Science tells us the world is not 6000 years old. If you don't accept at least a certain amount of scientific truth then you need to examine yourself more objectively.

If one believes God created all things (science included), I don't know why anyone would reject that which has been solidified by science.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Stop driving your car and talking on your phone.

Uhm...okay. I don't think the Amish can hear you.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Go back to crapping in the woods and see how far you can make it without science!

The Amish seem to be doing alright.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
But the whole 6000 year thing really doesn't bother me so much.

It bothers me. I don't see any substantiation to that effect. I've heard the hypothesis and still think it makes way too many assumptions.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
It's more of the fact that our reality is based on cause and effect. It is not based on right and wrong. What is right to one person could be interpreted as wrong by another.

Main Entry: rel·a·tiv·ism
Pronunciation: 're-l&-ti-"vi-z&m
Function: noun
1 a : a theory that knowledge is relative to the limited nature of the mind and the conditions of knowing b : a view that ethical truths depend on the individuals and groups holding them
www.m-w.com...

Christianity believes in:

Main Entry: ab·so·lut·ism
Pronunciation: 'ab-s&-"lü-"ti-z&m
Function: noun
2 : advocacy of a rule by absolute standards or principles

If you're a relativist, who's to say absolutism isn't correct? Isn't it subjective?

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Next time you look in the mirror realize that IF GOD EXISTS it would require nothing from you. Going to church on sundays and singing and praising God would do nothing for such a creative being/force/concept/law/whatever it is......

Is that how you handle all of your relationships? For example: If I'm to get a girl/boyfriend, it would require nothing from me. Going on dates, talking on the phone, and having dinner together would do nothing for such relationship. Sounds silly, no?

Originally posted by Scramjet76
THE ONLY THING God could possibly want from you is simple.... experience.

How do you know what God wants? Per above, you said "IF" God exists.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Whether the experience is "good" or "bad" is completely irrelevant. So next time you look in the mirror realize that your eyes are God's eyes. Your ears are God's ears. Your sense of smell is God's sense of smell. Etc! The sole purpose (if there is one at all) for living creatures (whether it be you, your cat, or extraterrestrials) is to EXPERIENCE this particularly reality.

Here... read this book. It's quite good.

www.amazon.com...=8-1/qid=1156525127/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-1042898-5064849?ie=UTF8

This perspective sounds familiar:

"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." - Genesis 3:4-5

and of course:

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD." - Isaiah 55:8

And my recommended reading as well. It is good: www.amazon.com...=8-2/qid=1156529209/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-4968533-0319920?ie=UTF8

[edit on 25-8-2006 by saint4God]

If you're a relativist, who's to say absolutism isn't correct? Isn't it subjective?

Let me clarify.... God is absolute. He created this realm of polarity to experience it. I say this not because I believe it to be 100% truth. I say it because given the evidence (I have experienced), it makes the most sense to me.

Is that how you handle all of your relationships? For example: If I'm to get a girl/boyfriend, it would require nothing from me. Going on dates, talking on the phone, and having dinner together would do nothing for such relationship.

Because the boy/girl you chase would require something from you. God requires nothing from you.
From a limited human perspective your relationship with God is your relationship with said boy/girl, your parents, your pets, the guy at the quickie mart, space aliens etc. Because quite literally you are God. This is one way God experiences it's own greatness. By becoming you. Look up into the stars at night and think "what is beyond the universe? And what is beyond whatever is beyond it?" You end up dizzy because it is so vast and beyond your comprehension.

**I would like to note that I did not intend to attack people who go to church and sing and give God praise. In your mind if singing in front of people in a house of worship brings you happiness then it brings happiness to God also because you and God are one in the same. It is afterall an experience. Like everything else.



PS- I luv the bananna dance. Therefore according to my way of thinking so does God lol.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Let me clarify.... God is absolute. He created this realm of polarity to experience it. I say this not because I believe it to be 100% truth. I say it because given the evidence (I have experienced), it makes the most sense to me.

I think that's a good answer, thanks for clarifying.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Because the boy/girl you chase would require something from you. God requires nothing from you.
From a limited human perspective your relationship with God is your relationship with said boy/girl, your parents, your pets, the guy at the quickie mart, space aliens etc. Because quite literally you are God. This is one way God experiences it's own greatness. By becoming you. Look up into the stars at night and think "what is beyond the universe? And what is beyond whatever is beyond it?" You end up dizzy because it is so vast and beyond your comprehension.

If God requires nothing from us, why would God have a need to experience things through us?

Originally posted by Scramjet76
**I would like to note that I did not intend to attack people who go to church and sing and give God praise. In your mind if singing in front of people in a house of worship brings you happiness then it brings happiness to God also because you and God are one in the same. It is afterall an experience. Like everything else.

The reason why people sing in church is not to be "in front of people". We're there for Him, not us.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
PS- I luv the bananna dance. Therefore according to my way of thinking so does God lol.

If I love sin, does that mean God loves sin also?

[edit on 25-8-2006 by saint4God]

I think that's a good answer, thanks for clarifying.

Unfortunately it was not a good answer. I mistakenly wrote "He created this realm of polarity..." To assign gender to God was a mistake. It should read "God created this realm of polarity..."

If God requires nothing from us, why would God have a need to experience things through us?

Here's the deal. All the physical laws of our reality did their thing and countless # of years later here we are... confused about who we are and what this all means etc. Now that you are here and exist, God experiences reality through us if we like it or not. It doesn't matter. If you choose to go buy a gun and end your existence you give God the experience of blowing your head off. If you choose to go to church and sing/give God praise God gets that experience. If you sit at home in a corner and try not to think about reality or God... it is still another experience.

If I love sin, does that mean God loves sin also?

Absolutely. You can't label which fence God sits on because God is on every fence.



Now.... let's do the bannana dance in honor of God and Consciousness!
God eats that sh*t up I promise

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Unfortunately it was not a good answer. I mistakenly wrote "He created this realm of polarity..." To assign gender to God was a mistake. It should read "God created this realm of polarity..."

I think you're too critical of yourself. We use "He" in English because there is no gender-neutral pronoun, like it was originally written. I agree there's no reason to think God has a physical gender. For simplicity's sake I use He though.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Here's the deal. All the physical laws of our reality did their thing and countless # of years later here we are... confused about who we are and what this all means etc. Now that you are here and exist, God experiences reality through us if we like it or not. It doesn't matter. If you choose to go buy a gun and end your existence you give God the experience of blowing your head off. If you choose to go to church and sing/give God praise God gets that experience. If you sit at home in a corner and try not to think about reality or God... it is still another experience.

An interesting perspective. One that I don't think I've heard before. I can think of a Bible passage or two that talks about us being vessels/temples for Him...and have prayed for that as well. What I think is curious is by this line of thinking, the destruction/self-destruction is "forcing God's hand" to do things He doesn't approve of...yet gave us the right to do. I'm not going to agree or disagree just yet. I'd like to let the thoughts set for me for a bit.

Originally posted by Scramjet76

If I love sin, does that mean God loves sin also?

Absolutely. You can't label which fence God sits on because God is on every fence.

"The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished;" - Numbers 14:18

"Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished;" - Exodus 34:7b

"But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." - Mark 3:29

Does this mean he did not love His son since Christ was free from sin?

"Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?" - John 8:46

"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin." - John 15:22

If he loves sin, why would he kill it?

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." - Romans 6:23

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Now.... let's do the bannana dance in honor of God and Consciousness!
God eats that sh*t up I promise

"So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." - 1 Corinthians 10:31

...but keep in mind, sin is against God, not for him.

"When I looked, I saw that you had sinned against the LORD your God; you had made for yourselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. You had turned aside quickly from the way that the LORD had commanded you." - Deuteronomy 9:16

Saint4God:

As long as nobody abuses the privilege, I agree that allowing free display of religious symbols, along with literature and free discussion, is the way to go. Personally I prefer having as few restrictions on free behavior as practical, but of course we have to have ANY only because some individuals abuse their freedoms in ways that hurt others.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not entirely comfortable discussing "what's wrong with Christians." As I said, Christianity is such a huge religion and takes so many different forms that anything said has to be qualified. I certainly could say a lot of things that bother me about a lot of Christians, but then again, with each of them I've known Christians who didn't display that kind of behavior. Also, it seems likely to me that a round or two of Christian-bashing is almost sure to aggravate the sense of persecution under which many Christians labor.

Would you have a problem if instead I stated some common flaws in thinking and practice that I find, not in Christians, but in Christianity? Or in many of the versions of Christianity anyway. I would be much more comfortable with that.

Originally posted by Two Steps Forward
Saint4God:

As long as nobody abuses the privilege, I agree that allowing free display of religious symbols, along with literature and free discussion, is the way to go. Personally I prefer having as few restrictions on free behavior as practical, but of course we have to have ANY only because some individuals abuse their freedoms in ways that hurt others.

I'm with ya.

Originally posted by Two Steps Forward
To be perfectly honest, I'm not entirely comfortable discussing "what's wrong with Christians." As I said, Christianity is such a huge religion and takes so many different forms that anything said has to be qualified. I certainly could say a lot of things that bother me about a lot of Christians, but then again, with each of them I've known Christians who didn't display that kind of behavior. Also, it seems likely to me that a round or two of Christian-bashing is almost sure to aggravate the sense of persecution under which many Christians labor.

There was no intention to aggravate anyone. In fact, this thread is a lot more civilized and progressive in reaching understandings than other thread such as:

Christianity is the AntiChrist Religion

The Anti-Christian conspiracy

The Bible is not the word of god

...for example. There are many many others.

Originally posted by Two Steps Forward
Would you have a problem if instead I stated some common flaws in thinking and practice that I find, not in Christians, but in Christianity? Or in many of the versions of Christianity anyway. I would be much more comfortable with that.

I think there are far too many of those threads, which is why this one changes the direction a bit. If you'd like to go after Christianity, I'd recommend one of the threads cited above for starters. You may certainly say as you wish, though intended to focus on the topic. It's a valuable growing experience from this end though.

Well, then, I guess my final comment is to question the entire premise of this thread, since I don't believe there's anything special about Christians, good or bad, that warrants making generalizations about them. So I'll just say, go ahead and have a good time, and I shall post herein no further.

An interesting perspective. One that I don't think I've heard before.

Your welcome.

I think you are I are searching for the same thing. I think all humans do and it is a normal part of possessing the level of consciousness we do.

"Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished;" - Exodus 34:7b

Well this is an impass for us. You believe in right and wrong. I do not. You believe God will "punish us" for our sins. I do not.
**I would note that even if there is no God or a God who doesn't "punish the guilty," there is still much reason to do "good."

For example:

Let's say I want to do "evil" by killing a bunch of people because they don't like the bannana dance
Well I am certainly capable of doing that. But that action would mean a reaction. Perhaps others who are against bannana dancing would come to kill me, my family, friends, bannana business partners, etc.

Eventually we see that it is pointless for humans to fight amongst eachother. It makes much more sense for them to collaborate/educate one another. Regardless of if we end up at war or not, the fact is that one day humanity will die. Either the sun will expand and the earth will get too hot, an asteroid, gamma rays from a nearby supernova, etc. Earth is our birthplace while we learn. But our future lies in the stars. It's either that or we can all wait here on earth for the eventual asteroid, nuclear war, whatever to finish us.

Either way it is an experience. BUT- I much rather have my great great great great great great great great great great grandchildren in another part of the galaxy curiously watching a less advanced species slowly evolve than never getting that chance because humans stupidly bombed eachother till everyone was dead.

Ok this is teh scoop!

America a breeding ground for zealots and nutters alike. Well this fat American preachers (er sorry nothing against fat as I am one to love the supersize) but you see this fat arse preachers on TV stating all this crap. What about that beautiful spirtual feeling a person can develop but all these sin zealots preach far from it. In this day of age I see why people are attracted to new age,kabblah and hindu. Catholic priests need to get laid as well. If you can't go without it don't be a dam preist idiot. Than you have all these creepy zealots I mean you meet them and you get that creepy vibe. Well thats not right. And yes when you get that vibe it is for reason.

Next would be it has made so many people scared of religion its gross. I mean you bring up the topic or talk about god or thoughts on it you ave someone looking at you weird. This is why I like many other have avoided it or took some goofy path.

So all through life you have no clue no idea until your death bed than you start to wonder. Its to bad there was not a comfortable aproachable area we all could of learned in earlier years.

Anyway that my complaint.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Well I am certainly capable of doing that. But that action would mean a reaction. Perhaps others who are against bannana dancing would come to kill me, my family, friends, bannana business partners, etc.

In all fairness I was taking your example to the extreme to test that school of thought. That's what I was more interested in getting to. Regarding the PB&J song: Dance banana dance.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Eventually we see that it is pointless for humans to fight amongst eachother. It makes much more sense for them to collaborate/educate one another.

I'm so with it and wholeheartedly agree.