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Complaint box: Christians

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posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 11:12 PM
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What I absolutely CANNOT Stand in Christians [hell, insert ANY religion] is that they too frequently have no clue what their scriptures say.....btw I AM a Christian, lol....Between Baptist, Church of Christ, Catholic, and God knows what else, they all claim that it's only in thier services that you will find God...which was never writtne anywhere in the text (and I'm a member of the Church of Christ).

Ex: was having an argument over whether God was on their side for thier opinions on capitol punishment, earlier today. (from the screaming rehabilitate to the fry the f'rs) confusing the "Thou shalt not kill..." with the "Render unto Ceaser..." from the God who gives both grace and a law (Old Testament) that requires for a woman who twisted a man's privates to break up a fight to cut of the offending hand. What makes it all the more frustrating is that no one looks up the ORIGINAL TEXT for any of it, lol...so they argue the English meaning of the word when it should have been translated something completely diffrent (baptism is a TRANSLITERATION of Baptitzo...which means literlly Immersion...would save countless arguments, lol...)

Christians argue opinion more than they do the text, Infedels (noteable athiests call themselves that--btw, that IS a religion, not the lack of one...the belief that there is no God, that you are the supreme being...worship is what you focus on) know the text better, and both constantly put words where none were sopken. Laws are made where God gave freedom, without even holy text to stand on. People often don't realise that they have hidden agendas when they argue....God, people if you are going to claim the book as your guidance, READ THE THING!!!

Oh, and people, in general don't know anything about logic skills.




posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 12:02 PM
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Thanks to those who've posted so far, great feedback! I especially enjoyed reading ADHDsux4me's post as a refreshing spiritual reminder.

I originally put this thread on ATS but for reasons I understand, it got moved here. The draw-back being we're missing the audience over there who are very critical....so...where are they? I know! Their silence is part of a conspiracy! C'mon Mods, move it back to ATS -



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 08:44 PM
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the Christians that bug me are the ones that Come up to you ,and Try and recruit you to their church, Usually it happens when i pick up a conversation with a stranger, I'm having a great conversation with a person and then they bust out the "hey you should go to my church", and then when i decline, instead of being like "okay dude" they get all insulted......."well why not, dont' you belive in jesus" , "Dont you want to go to heaven?" then i usually respectfully say , "i have my own views and i respect yours , so please show me the same courtesy" which i usually get "but your wrong", most of the time they begin a "discusion" that i dont' wish to be part of, I understand it's because they like me and see me as a respectable person and don't want to see me go to hell, But it's rude,
it's the fact that alot(not all) can't seem the understand that sometimes it's not proper to speak about politics or religion. Oh yeah when people talk about their faiths and christians ROll their eyes, I've got to say not winning any points. that's reallly the only thing that bugs me, it's not the point of view on life that they hold, its just the contempt that they show towards others, it's very disrespectful, to not even try and understand somebody elese point of view. and have a civil discussion, again Not all christians most are hardworking , kinda hearted people, but just your little recruiters that were sent out that i happen to come across, i've got to say out of all the people that tried to get me to come with them , only like three(out of like 800Xs) actually did it in a respectful manner,

[Edited on 17-11-2004 by bordnlazy]



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 09:25 PM
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and well put bordnlazy. It reminds me of a Christian I know who seems to be a bit too interested in my personal life. Makes me very uncomfortable since I barely know them, yet that person digs. Other than this person though I don't know of others like them. I can see how an unwanted helping hand can be frustrating as well as a forced conversation. Usually I do more of the asking questions when someone brings up a heavy topic. If they want my opinion, they ask for it. I've never heard of a 'forced' coming to the Lord in my lifetime, nor would I want to see it.



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 01:24 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
and well put bordnlazy. It reminds me of a Christian I know who seems to be a bit too interested in my personal life. Makes me very uncomfortable since I barely know them, yet that person digs. Other than this person though I don't know of others like them. I can see how an unwanted helping hand can be frustrating as well as a forced conversation. Usually I do more of the asking questions when someone brings up a heavy topic. If they want my opinion, they ask for it. I've never heard of a 'forced' coming to the Lord in my lifetime, nor would I want to see it.


You know it's nice to see the fact that this thread is really about "CHristian complaint box" and not "lets argue about christiianity" well at least for the most part. but what i really hate though is how i go up in flames whenever i enter a church!!! i mean i'm all there some good Ol' love and sin and i'm in flames!!!!! no but really the wine they give is only grape juice i feel So "connd" And the bread is liike a crumb(dont' hate me i just want you all to like me)

[Edited on 20-11-2004 by bordnlazy]



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by bordnlazy
but what i really hate though is how i go up in flames whenever i enter a church!!! i mean i'm all there some good Ol' love and sin and i'm in flames!!!!! )


How so? Can you elaborate or give an example?


Originally posted by bordnlazy
no but really the wine they give is only grape juice i feel So "connd" And the bread is liike a crumb(dont' hate me i just want you all to like me)


Yeah, it didn't used to be that way. I think the state has issue with under-aged drinking though, even if it's a small amount. I'm all for the larger bread pieces (even if it's unleavened). If it symbolizes feeding on the teachings of Christ, then it'd make me want to grab two handfuls and fill up!

[Edited on 23-11-2004 by saint4God]

[Edited on 23-11-2004 by saint4God]



posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 02:34 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by bordnlazy
but what i really hate though is how i go up in flames whenever i enter a church!!! i mean i'm all there some good Ol' love and sin and i'm in flames!!!!! )


How so? Can you elaborate or give an example?


Originally posted by bordnlazy
no but really the wine they give is only grape juice i feel So "connd" And the bread is liike a crumb(dont' hate me i just want you all to like me)


Yeah, it didn't used to be that way. I think the state has issue with under-aged drinking though, even if it's a small amount. I'm all for the larger bread pieces (even if it's unleavened). If it symbolizes feeding on the teachings of Christ, then it'd make me want to grab two handfuls and fill up!

[Edited on 23-11-2004 by saint4God]

[Edited on 23-11-2004 by saint4God]


I'm sorry i was trying to be funny , i didn't mean any disrespect. it was just a jest.



posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 06:39 AM
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That's what I really think (my tone may be off in written form, I don't know).

It sounded like you got flamed by going to church. I was curious what happened. On second read, I see what you mean from a literal sense - missed it the first time.

[Edited on 24-11-2004 by saint4God]



posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 11:51 AM
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Interesting how complaints about Christians crop up on just about every "Conspiracy in Religion" thread and many in "Faith & Sprituality", yet when there's a thread deadicated to it, there's very little response. Why is that? On other threads I've been called a liar, that someone would like to take an axe or sword to me, hypocrite, and so forth. Here's the thread, let's discuss why.



posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 12:06 PM
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My main issue with some Christians is the fact that they feel the need to "save" and convert people who are not Christian. They shouldn't try to convert people who absolutly don't want to change their religious beliefs.

It also kind of bothers me when I hear people say things like "He was a good Christian man" as if being Christian automatically makes someone a good person. Heck, the BTK killer was very religious and active in his church, and he obviously wasn't a good person. So that throws that point out the window.



posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
My main issue with some Christians is the fact that they feel the need to "save" and convert people who are not Christian. They shouldn't try to convert people who absolutly don't want to change their religious beliefs.


Noted, and I agree. I don't think "hounding" anybody for anything is a good idea. Also, Christians cannot convert anybody. That's God's doing and is dangerous thinking for any of us who think we can.


Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
It also kind of bothers me when I hear people say things like "He was a good Christian man" as if being Christian automatically makes someone a good person.


The Bible agrees with you in two places:

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," - Romans 3:23

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone." - Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:18-20

I believe responsibility of a Christian is to turn from wrong, learn to do right and practice it as much as possible.


Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
Heck, the BTK killer was very religious and active in his church, and he obviously wasn't a good person. So that throws that point out the window.


Again you're in Biblical agreement here:

"He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts." - Luke 16:15

Seems then the complaint is that Christians need to do better following the Word?

"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men." - Matthew 6:2

But, Christians are people too and make the same mistakes as anyone else, yes? Why then hold them to a higher standard? I'll not say that I'm better than anyone else yet at the slightest error, I'm blasted for being a sinner. Per the first Biblical quote, we all are. What then is the difference between a believer and a non-believer then?

"I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life." - John 6:47

I've been on both sides, from skeptic to faithful, from non-believer to believer. I remember the before "me" and change well. This is also a good lesson for Christians as well, a look in the mirror if they'd not reflected in the past. Thanks for the input, looking forward to more.



posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

But, Christians are people too and make the same mistakes as anyone else, yes? Why then hold them to a higher standard? I'll not say that I'm better than anyone else yet at the slightest error, I'm blasted for being a sinner. Per the first Biblical quote, we all are. What then is the difference between a believer and a non-believer then?

"I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life." - John 6:47

I've been on both sides, from skeptic to faithful, from non-believer to believer. I remember the before "me" and change well. This is also a good lesson for Christians as well, a look in the mirror if they'd not reflected in the past. Thanks for the input, looking forward to more.


Yes exactly Christians are people too who sin and make mistakes just like everyone else. So why do other Christians seem so suprised when another supposed Christian commits a sinful act saying things like "I don't believe he did that...he was Christian!"
So i feel like they are holding themselves higher, by falsely thinking that Christians never commit sinful acts. Because they do, just like everyone else.

As far as the "being saved" thing. People have been saved by other religions as well. I think that any sort of structure that can help a person feel enlightened, help them learn more about themselves, and learn to be more self-disciplined is good and beneficial. There are many organizations both religious and non-religious that can provide this, not just Christianity.

I like Christianity in itself. Even though I don't believe Jesus was born from a virgin and I don't believe he was the son of God any differently than the rest of us were born sons and daughters of God, yet I do think he existed and was a wonderful teacher and philantrophist. So I just wanted to point out that I don't have a problem with Christianity in itself. It just seems like Christians, and other extremists from any religion have their heads up their hind ends sometimes.



posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 02:49 PM
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Are you of any particular denomination? And by "denomination" I mean a generally recognized sect -- Roman Catholic, Southern Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Orthodox, Episcopalian, etc. etc. etc.

I'm not one to insist that people join established clubs to maintain any legitimacy or credibility, but I have to admit to a certain leeriness when it comes to decentralized "Christians" with no affiliation to anything other than themselves. That way, their victims have no authority to appeal to, because there is no power structure or authority to keep the loose cannons in check. (Same issue with Islam -- the radicals can do what ever they want in the name of their religion, and there's no one with the ecclesiastical authority to make them stop.)

I assume from the tenor of your question that you are a fundamentalist Christian, and that you're looking to start an argument. I could be, actually, I hope I'm wrong.

Baack



posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by Baack
Are you of any particular denomination? And by "denomination" I mean a generally recognized sect -- Roman Catholic, Southern Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Orthodox, Episcopalian, etc. etc. etc.


I am now part of a denomination, but wasn't up until about a year ago. I called myself a "Protepresbymethobaptist" because I visited different churches during different times of my life. From that experience, I've learned that there is a tremendous amount of consistency between these four and more. I've never expected to become a part of the administrative leadership, so the slight differences on how they conduct their individual church wasn't a great deal of interest to me. My main interest is that they taught a true message and were a responsible steward of funding, to seriously help the community and those in need. The reason why I'd joined the church I have is out of gratitude, to offer to assist where needed. They've already equipt me with more than I could hope to repay in a lifetime.


Originally posted by Baack
I'm not one to insist that people join established clubs to maintain any legitimacy or credibility, but I have to admit to a certain leeriness when it comes to decentralized "Christians" with no affiliation to anything other than themselves.


If a Christian isn't receiving fellowship, worship, and study, it could be more difficult to grow in the Spirit (just based on my experience) though am confident it's possible with enough self-discipline. I certainly did not have it. Like Kung-Fu, I have to go there to keep in shape and learn more. I prefer the term "Christian" as it is Biblical and have no reason to pointlessly argue with brothers and sisters.


Originally posted by Baack
That way, their victims have no authority to appeal to, because there is no power structure or authority to keep the loose cannons in check. (Same issue with Islam -- the radicals can do what ever they want in the name of their religion, and there's no one with the ecclesiastical authority to make them stop.)


Christianity is based on Christ, who taught things like love, patience, hope, trust, and so forth. I don't think it's fair to compare the two principally. Christ was radical according to the schools of thought of those times (and perhaps ours as well) though this radical thought did not include violence. Not everyone in church is a Christian either. Some believe they're just "fulfilling their requirement" whether to impress others or "score points with God". I don't know for sure who's who, other than to say I've listened to those who've testified to this effect.


Originally posted by Baack
I assume from the tenor of your question that you are a fundamentalist Christian, and that you're looking to start an argument. I could be, actually, I hope I'm wrong.

Baack


It's not the first time I've been called "fundamental" here, though I've also been considered "liberal". I guess that puts me in the middle
. I don't know, nor really care. I don't like labels unless the person selects it from themselves. The labels I'll wear are: Christian, believer, friend, saint, follower of the way, or synonyms thereof.

I'm not looking to start an argument, but rather bring whatever arguments/complaints here to take under serious review and consideration. I hope I've demonstrated thus far consideration for believers and non-believers alike. My goal is to make Christians aware of their perceptions and clarify any misconceptions. Also, there is the truth which I wish to affirm when identified.


[edit on 23-8-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 05:25 PM
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Encouraging complaining...even between nominal christians.

Real good, Saint4God, real good.



To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Jude 1:15-16



posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 06:21 PM
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My beliefs are almost exactly like what Marg said....



How about me, I am not a christian believer, and I do not believe in organized religion, but I beleive in a god, or creator and I am as close to him as many here can imagine.

From first grade through sixth I went to a Lutheran school. My parents worked hard and usually didn't have time or weren't able to attend church. On monday mornings, first thing the teacher did was read off to the entire class how much money was donated by each family. When she got to my family it was usually "NOTHING" and everyone would stare at me.
By about 4th or 5th grade I realized in my heart that this wasn't a very christian thing to do and I decided then that I would explore as many religions as possible until I found one that "really" followed what they taught...... I'm 43 and still looking!

Over the years I have formed my own belief system and it works nicely for me.
I keep a couple of "Anti-Tracts" in my pocket to hand to those people that try to push their stuff on me. That to me is the most annoying aspect of some of the Christians.



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
Encouraging complaining...even between nominal christians.

Real good, Saint4God, real good.


Let's talk for a moment about the marriage relationship. Here we have two people who over time have got to learn to work together as a team. They go through changes, thoughts, emotions, harships, triumphs and inevitably some degree of misunderstandings. What brings value and progress between these to persons is their ability to communicate. If they're able to share these things and reasonably discuss their concerns, they're able to reach an understanding that will forward both of their emotional and spiritual growth. This family is similar. We need to sit down at the dinner table and talk about what we're thinking and feeling and why we think and feel these things. Only then is an understanding reached. This concept plays over into child-parent relationship, the teacher-student relationship, and hopefully the co-worker relationship as well. I'm not proposing hostilities and division, rather to address the sources of any hostilities and divisions to reach at least and understanding of where we're coming from. Then, we may be able to move forward. It helps to talk about things. Ask any counselor or psychiatrist.

I see you're still quoting the Word you deny as the one and only Truth.

Nevertheless I'm proposing a quote of my own, that we approach this subject matter "in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; in truthful speech and in the power of God".

Discussions are valuable "He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus." - Acts 19:9c

"...she came to Solomon and talked with him about all that she had on her mind. 3 Solomon answered all her questions; nothing was too hard for the king to explain to her." - 1 Kings 10:2

"We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus." - Acts 13:32

Part of the good news is clearing any misconceptions about Christ. Instead of quoting more Bible verses, it should be apparent the Jesus clarified many misconceptions from Pharisees and other people. The epistles give further clarification with statements like:

"Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth." - 1 John 3:18

Why do you think this passage was written? As was the case with Jesus, the author is telling us that merely words or tongue is a demonstration of love but includes action and truth. The reason WHY this is being stated is because us people had it wrong. There were those of us who were paying lip-service but not backing it up. The Bible is full of correction for us and dispelling of misconception.



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by Beer_Guy
On monday mornings, first thing the teacher did was read off to the entire class how much money was donated by each family. When she got to my family it was usually "NOTHING" and everyone would stare at me.


That is tragedy, and anti-biblical...against what Christ says here:

"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full." - Matthew 6:2


Originally posted by Beer_Guy
By about 4th or 5th grade I realized in my heart that this wasn't a very christian thing to do and I decided then that I would explore as many religions as possible until I found one that "really" followed what they taught......


I think your heart was ringing true that this behaviour is not in accord with Christ's teachings.


Originally posted by Beer_Guy
I'm 43 and still looking!


Please U2U me, I'd like to discuss in more detail what you've come to believe and why. I believe your looking is a fundamental and very important step.


Originally posted by Beer_Guy
Over the years I have formed my own belief system and it works nicely for me.
I keep a couple of "Anti-Tracts" in my pocket to hand to those people that try to push their stuff on me. That to me is the most annoying aspect of some of the Christians.


Understandable, it's an impersonal approach without consideration for the individual and their experiences. Also, you can't ask a tract questions. What's important is not Christians themselves, but rather if there is a God and how to connect to Him personally.


[edit on 24-8-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
Christian Complaint:

High and mighty, better than everyone else, condesending, judgemental, and critical people who as a result usually have more flaws than those who they so cruely judge.



No ones perfect of course, but as a Christian you are supose to try hard NOT to be those things you mentioned above.



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 12:07 PM
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I hate labels for people. I really do. There's not much info imparted with the use of a label, mainly (IMHO) because there's no agreement about what they mean.

Bad analogy time- Somebody says "dog" and you picture in your mind a dog without knowing anything specific about said dog. You just automatically create that mental image (maybe a beagle or a retriever or whatever) until you get more info from the speaker.

Now that very same thing happens with terms like "Democrat", "conservative", "fundamentalist", "Jew", or "conspiracy theorist". You can't help but pre-judge i.e. be prejudiced (could be positively or negatively), as a first response. You've already started to make assumptions and judgements before you really know anything meaningful about the person.

Here's an admission and I know it doesn't paint me in a positive light, but so be it, it's an example. Upon being introduced to someone, if within the first few minutes they start telling me how "Christian" they are, my antenna goes up in warning mode. Big time. Especially in a business context. I've had the most horrendous battles of my professional life with people who couldn't wait to tell me about their "Christianity". Now, it's a reflex wallet-grab and back pedal whenever I hear that come out of someone's mouth early on.

Personally (and in person), I don't care about someone's religious convictions, or sexual orientation, or a number of other personal tidbits, until they bring it up. And then I only care enough to wonder why they think I care.

Obviously, discussion forums are something else entirely. And after I've personally known someone for an extended period, if things come up in the course of conversation that's ok too. But anyone in real-world thinking they're making a positive impression on me by waving a religious flag of any stripe has erred in the extreme.

Do I like "Christians" or not like "Christians"? Someone's Christianity is totally irrelevant to me since it's a self-referencing term devoid of meaning in this context. I like or dislike people with total disregard for their religious conviction. I know some Jews I'd trust with my life. I know some people who believe they're Christian as all get-out I'd like to beat with a club.

[Edit for typo]

[edit on 8/24/2006 by yeahright]




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