Ariz. sheriff releases records from Giffords' shooting

Jared Loughner shooting records released by the judge. ATS wasn't mentioned on the website but definitely there is no doubt that he was a member.

The Pima County Sheriff's Office released an estimated 2,700 pages of investigative records Wednesday from a shooting rampage here two years ago — documents that are expected to shed new light on a massacre that left six dead and 14 wounded.

Jared Loughner, now 24, pleaded guilty last year to the Jan. 8, 2011, outburst that critically wounded then-U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., and killed U.S. District Judge John Roll. Loughner is serving multiple life prison sentences.

By 2010, Loughner had become alienated from friends, an Internet loner posting messages of hate and suicide.

He was suspended from Pima Community College after five contacts with campus police because of classroom disruptions and after he posted a bizarre video on YouTube in which he ranted about the "genocide school." By then, he favored satanic music and had begun espousing conspiracy theories about the 9/11 attack and government control of grammar. He also wrote about the ability to manipulate dreams, a favorite past-time.

SOURCE
It matters what is posted on ATS as it can have a significant impact on some people.

Conspiracy theoriesHis friend Zach Osler noted that conspiracy theories had a profound effect on Loughner, particularly the online film Zeitgeist: The Movie, with which friends claimed Loughner held an obsession.[15][38] He was a member of the message board Above Top Secret, which discussed conspiracy theories; members of the site did not respond warmly to his posts.[39][40][41] Loughner espoused conspiracy theories about the 9/11 attacks,[36] the New World Order, and beliefs in a 2012 apocalypse, among other controversial viewpoints. Reports appearing after the shooting noted similarities between the statements made by Loughner and those publicized by the conspiracy theorist David Wynn Miller.[42][43][44] The Anti-Defamation League's report also confirmed Loughner's longstanding interest in conspiracy theories.[45]

WIKI

The full documents were available for a short period of time yesterday before they were pulled:

azstarnet.com...
The documents released today by the Pima County Sheriff's Department to the Star today have been removed from StarNet. Select documents will be posted as they are determined to be appropriate and sensitive to our community.

However, I was able to pull a few nuggets from the docs before they were yanked:


=============Police Files

Keep in mind that the suspect Loughner had no facial hair, and was supposed to be wearing all black clothes:

pg31 of 457
Jared had shaved his hair and eyebrows a week before the shooting.

www.tucsonnewsnow.com...
According to deputy accounts, Loughner was wearing all black that day from head to toe.



pg4 of 457
Witness Fuller: "..described the individual as approximately 6' tall, having a small beard directing(sic) around his mouth area, possibly having dark brown hair and olive colored skin .... he possibly had a brown, or tan shirt on."

pg7 of 457
Witness Barber: "His description of the shooter was a thin-faced gentleman, with possibly longer hair.... the individual may have had blonde or brown hair.."

pg33 of 457
PO Paulsen: "..I was advised by the store security and surveillance manager he had video and believed two subjects were involved. ...(On the video)I noticed a second Caucasion male with him(Loughner) who appeared to be in his mid-to-late 20's, with a thin build and long, dirty blond hair, wearing a dark sweatshirt and faded blue jeans.. The males in the images appeared to be walking in close proximity as they entered the store, and remained in close proximity after entering the store.

pg54 of 457
Dorushka "described the shooter as being '30-ish' with dark hair and maybe facial hair wearing dark jeans, a light shirt waving a 9mm handgun and firing." ...

pg55 of 247
Witness Mary reed said shooter was a young guy with dark hair.

pg92 of 247
Information to us describing the secondary suspect identified the male as a Caucasion male, appeared to be in his late twenties, tall, thin, dirty blonde hair and a mullet hairstyle. His hair also appeared to be shoulder length. He was described as not having any facial hair, he appeared to be wearing a sweat shirt and blue jeans.


Conclusion: The documents were pulled because there were many more like these comments which proved that there was at least one more shooter.

double post
mods please delete

interesting how the witnesses are describing people who look nothing like JLL

can we download/read the 2700 page document anywhere?

Satanic music? What was he listening to Rhianna? Lil Wayne? Goofball McTurd?

Originally posted by 08051962
can we download/read the 2700 page document anywhere?

A bunch of documents here:
services.meredithlocalmedia.com...

This is looking more and more fake by the day.

Who was the other shooter?

Where are the surveillance tapes of him going entering the building and the car he got out of?

I have read all the released docs, and here are more references to a shooter who had hair, disputing the official version of a Loughner who was totally bald and without facial hair:


STATEMENT OF DANIEL HERNANDEZ, witness
I went back to the end of the line. Um, we then a man who was dressed in dark clothes. He was a male, um, light hair.

STATEMENT OF KENNETH DORUSHKA, witness
I turned around and I saw a guy.... uh, black hair, uh, I'll say it looked maybe a goatee, waving a gun.

STATEMENT OF MAVANELL STODDARD, witness
..he had .... Uh, probably medium brown hair, lighter.

STATEMENT OF RON BARBER, witness
... Um, I believe he had longer hair.
Q: ....what color hair do you think he had?
A: I think it was sort of a dish watery blonde, brown color. ...It seemed longer. You know, it wasn't like a crew cut or anything like that. As I recall, I thought he had hair that sort of, you know, it was in disarray.

STATEMENT OF JACQUELYN JACKSON, witness
And I looked over and I saw the guy... ...dark hair. ... He had the dark brown hair.

STATEMENT OF PCSO GREENO
At approximately 1453 hrs I requested a description of the suspects (the shooter and the second male suspect) from Sgt. Masters. She states the shooter's name is Jared Loughner, and described him as ... brown hair, ... and being unshaven.

A number of witnesses confirmed the official version of a suspect dressed in faded black sweat shirt and pants:


STATEMENT OF GEORGINE ROWAN, witness
He was wearing all black.

STATEMENT OF E McMAHON, witness
He was wearing all black.

STATEMENT OF JOSE OROZCO, witness
I saw the man. ....Wearing all black.


Yet there many witnesses who said the suspect was dressed in khaki:


STATEMENT OF JOSEPH ZAMUDIO, witness
Saw the suspect being held on the ground. "Wearin' a beanie. Khaki pants. ...They were Khaki like dress pants. Not cargo."

STATEMENT OF ROGER SALZGEBER, witness
--he had on tan or beige shirt

STATEMENT OF JAMES FULLER, witness
--shooter was wearing brownish, tan shirt

STATEMENT OF MAVANELL STODDARD, witness
..he had on a burgundy jacket, um, a tan baseball cap. ... And he was dressed in tan pants, I believe.

STATEMENT OF GEORGE MORRIS, witness
He was a younger guy, ... in khakis

STATEMENT OF JACQUELYN JACKSON, witness
And I looked over and I saw the guy in his khaki, just like calm as can be, just like. ... He was like, he looked young. He was wearing a big khaki jacket

STATEMENT OF JOHN ANTHONY MARINO, cab driver who drove Loughner to the location.
Q: ..can you describe the person that you picked up for us?
A: early 20's, male. Tan clothes.
Q: ...you said he was wearing tan clothes.
A: Yeah, I'm pretty sure. ... I think he had a tan jacket on, I'm pretty sure.

STATEMENT OF PCSO AUDETAT
This cop was the first on scene, who slipped the cuffs on Loughner.
"I observed the suspect to be wearing a black beanie, a black hoodie-type sweatshirt, khaki pants and Sketchers shoes."


Another set of witnesses contradict both these versions and say the gunman had blue jeans:

STATEMENT OF KENNETH DORUSHKA, witness
He then turned around and saw the suspect... wearing jeans and light colored shirt.

STATEMENT OF SHELLY DOUGALL, witness
..he was wearing a dark colored beanie. Um, a dark hooded sweatshirt and jeans. ... He had jean pants. .. blue.. I just remember seeing blue jeans.

STATEMENT OF Dr. STEVEN RAYLE, witness
Wearing...Navy blue, looked like sweat clothes. ... Dressed all in like, dark blue. ...

STATEMENT OF MARISO ENCINAS, witness
A witness ran into the bank where she works. ... She walked outside to watch. "And at that time, this, there was, the person running away from the scene. And the witness, who was inside the branch, jumped up, looked really terrified. He said, oh, my God. That's him. That's the shooter. ..."
Q: What, what did the guy was running away look like?
A: He was wearing blue jeans and a dark blue shirt. Uh, a dark blue jacket or black jacket that he was removing as he was running away.

STATEMENT OF PCSO GREENO
At approximately 1453 hrs I requested a description of the suspects from Sgt. Masters. She states the shooter's name is Jared Loughner, and described him as ... wearing dark clothes, a hoodie,... blue jeans

STATEMENT OF DANIELLE LEWIS, witness
She was store clerk at a 7/11 where Loughner waited for the cab drive to the location. "He was wearing a dark hoodie, jeans, a white t-shirt, a dark knit cap pulled down..."
Yet even the video evidence say Loughner was wearing jeans:
"Segments 9:04:06a to 9:04:42a show a subject being a white male, wearing a dark gray hoodie sweatshirt and jeans entering the store...."


/

Another discrepancy in the witness accounts concerns the age of the suspect. Keep in mind Loughner was 22. And a number of accounts support this version:

STATEMENT OF E McMAHON, witness
... Um, he looked pretty young to me . Like, 20's.

STATEMENT OF GEORGE MORRIS, witness
He was a younger guy,
Q: ...how old did the shooter look to you?
A: I would say early 20's.

STATEMENT OF RON BARBER, witness
...He was a younger guy. ... I would say he's got to be, you know, 20's.

STATEMENT OF JACQUELYN JACKSON, witness
Q: Age range(of the shooter).
A: I would say 19 or 20, sometin' like that. He looked young.

STATEMENT OF JOHN ANTHONY MARINO, cab driver who drove Loughner to the Safeway, the location opf the shooting.
Q: ..can you describe the person that you picked up for us?
A: early 20's, male.


Yet other accounts describe an older shooter:

STATEMENT OF ROGER SALZGEBER, witness
Q: ...this individual that you tackled, how old do you think he is?
A: ..I'm guessing this guy would be forty-ish. He was not a kid, not a young kid. Maybe thirties, maybe fourties. ... I know he had a beanie hair cut out...

STATEMENT OF SARA RAJCA, witness
Q: ...did you see the shooter?
A: He was wearing glasses. .... He looked younger, but I would say he was like 35. ... Mid thirties.

STATEMENT OF MARYANNE PUCCIARELLI-OAKS, witness
Q: How old was he? Aprroximately.
A: I don't know, maybe 35 ...he had a smirk on his face.

STATEMENT OF JOHN RESSLER, witness
And then I saw this young man, I would say maybe 30 ... And I saw him with a (gun)...

STATEMENT OF KENNETH DORUSHKA, witness
I turned around and I saw a guy, um, 30'ish ... waving a gun.

STATEMENT OF PAMELA SIMON, witness, staff worker.)
Q: How old would you say he was?
A: I would say maybe late thirties, early forties.




/

Loughner was shooting a Glock 19, say the cops, and a few witnesses seemed to confirm this:


STATEMENT OF JAMES FULLER, witness
And I saw a male with a large automatic pistol, it looked like a Taurus or a Browning automatic pistol. Uh, one of those slide actions.

STATEMENT OF KENNETH DORUSHKA, witness
He described the shooter .... waving a 9mm type handgun and firing.

STATEMENT OF SARA RAJCA, witness
Q: ...did you see the shooter?
A: --..I remember it being a small gun. ... It was a tiny handgun.


Though others seem to have noticed some type of machine pistol:

STATEMENT OF GEORGINE ROWAN, witness
...It wasn't a handgun. ... It was bigger than a handgun. Georgine said that the gun was about two feet long, was not a handgun and that flame was coming out the end.

STATEMENT OF GEORGE MORRIS, witness
Q: Did you see his gun?
A: It was a handgun.... it wasn't an automatic, not a, not a regular Glock or ...Springfield XD. It, it looked more like a, what you see on TV...
Q: Uzi?

STATEMENT OF JACQUELYN JACKSON, witness
Q: Did you, the weapon, did, was it, was it black, silver?
A: ...it looked like a, um, machine gun. ...it had a long thing with a round cylinder.... [a drum magazine?]


And then there were the few witnesses who directly supported a second shooter:

STATEMENT OF MANUEL MONTANO, Safeway customer
...they said it was two people(shooters) or something. ...It sounds like two people. And that's what it sound like. I didn't know it was lot of rounds with, uh, one person.

STATEMENT OF PCSO GREENO
At approximately 1453 hrs I requested a description of the suspects (the shooter and the second male suspect) from Sgt. Masters. ... She described the second male as being in his mid 50's, receding hairline, long brown hair, blue jeans, brown shoes, a blue/gray shirt buttoned in the front, and a dark jacket ... with a logo on the left breast pocket.

STATEMENT OF KENNETH DORUSHKA, witness
He described the shooter as ... waving a 9mm type handgun and firing. .... Mr. Dorushka looked over to his left, to the north, and saw another guy, separate from the shooter, who also had a gun. This second subject was described (as) a 50 year old male with blonde "kinda long" hair, wearing a fatigue style jacket, waving another weapon downward that "was the size of an UZI." The second subject had somebody up against a wall while people were screaming at him "don't kill him, don't shoot him." Mr. Dorushka then heard another shot fired from an unknown direction. ... ...He believed both of the guns he saw; the handgun used by the shooter and the one the second male was handling which he believed to be an Uzi, were distinctly different.
[Witness Zamudio admitted he was carrying a concealed weapon, but was adamant that he never removed it from his pocket. Witness Kenneth Veeder admitted picking up the suspect's gun.]

Though the cops had a ready explanation:

PCSO RAMIREZ SUPP
The secondary susject that Mr. Dorushka described was evidently confirmed by other deputies and witnesses as being one of the individuals that had tackled the initial shooter.
[So why do witnesses see a much bigger weapon in the hands of this second gun-wielding person?]

Other statements of interest:


STATEMENT OF SUSAN LIPMAN, Safeway store clerk
"He, he acted (minutes before the shooting), you know, he appeared to be either be drunk or drugs or, you know what I mean, he was just listless."

This was just before the shooting. I doubt any real gunman would have been 'listless' seconds before his act of mass murder.

---------------

This is an interesting but heavily redacted interview. He seems to have known Loughner in some kind of institutional setting. Is he talking about jail, or a mental hospital?

STATEMENT OF GLEN GILKERSON, witness
Q: ....you believe that you know or have known, um, the person that has been arrested for the shooting that occurred ... at the Safeway parking lot..
A: I think so. ...Does he go by the name of Jay?
Q: That I do not know. Um, tell us how, how you think you know him.
A: Here's the deal you guys. Uh (two redacted lines) ... And he was there both times. And the second time was at (redacted line). ....
Q: Um, why do you think this is the same person that you were in (redacted) with?
A: Uh, from the one photograph on TV with a white t-shirt, it sure looks like him. ...I would just about be sure.
Q: Okay. And you said you may have seen him in some sort of (redacted). When was the first? ....
A: Okay. Uh, I'll just be totally honest with you guys. Obviously, uh, (redacted lines).
Q: And, and I think he was there. ....
A: Okay. Then more recent than that, it wasn't this last August but the August before, (redacted line). ... And, uh, um, the guy was a real narcissist. He talked about, uh, serving, uh, how many people killed, blah, blah, blah and.
Q: Serving in the military?
A: Yeah ... An, uh, here's what got my, one of the things that got my attention, was that, uh, I was there, like I said, like about ten days and he goes, I remember you and I said, yeah, I kind of remember you. And then he was dismissed, and I was still there. And then within like two or three days, boom, he was back again. ...
Q: Do you know what he was there for?
A: No, I don't.

-----------------

This witness noticed Loughner with cab driver guy days before the shooting. Was he Loughner's handler?

STATEMENT OF CLAUDIA CHENIER-CZARNECKI, witness
On Tuesday, Jan 4th, five days before the shooting, while on break from her job at a Walmart in Oro Valley(near Tucson), she was approached by who she was sure was Jared Loughner--"100 percent. Not a doubt in my mind." His hair was long and curly, dark brown. Loughner talked to her about enlisting in the service. He was anti-government "he was talkin' about us bein' brainwashed."
"The gentleman that has now been identified as the cab driver, I believe came out of our store. .... But he came up this way. And kinda leaned over to where Jared, he said Jared. .... He said Jared we can''t .... they won't fill it here. .... And they made me believe that it was a prescription. ... He then, the cab driver then made the comment, we're gonna have to go to Safeway. ..."

Q: What did the, uh, what did the older gentleman look like?
A: He was about my age. ... I'm 57. He had longish hair. Tied back. Um, salt and pepper kind of hair. ...And that the, the older gentleman, there was more to it than a cab driver. ... He was, too direct. And too much like he was callin' the shots to the, to Jared, the younger kid... ...There was somethin' else there. ... Is what I picked up on. ...And the attitude that came across with him. It was more of a controlling kinda feeling. ...It seemed like he had some kind of control over Jared. ... And it wasn't in a.. fatherly type manner.
Q: The older guy... seemed to be the person in control?
A: Yes

----------------

This concerns that occultic alter photographed in the back of the Loughner home.

STATEMENT OF FATHER, RANDY LOUGHNER
He stated he believed once the media personnel had utilized a pole cam to photograph a Halloween decoration of his .... He proceeded to show where the skull was at in his backyard again stating that the skull was a Halloween decoration and nothing more.

A Halloween decoration ...in the backyard ... in January?

This is a little off topic but here is an interview with the snake who calls herself Loughner's defense lawyer:

www.washingtonpost.com... ed2-11e2-b59e-adb43da03a8a_story.html

"The names of her past clients — Susan Smith, Unabomber Theodore Kaczynski, the Atlanta Olympics bomber Eric Rudolph and most recently, Tucson shooter Jared Loughner — run like a list of the most reviled in American criminal history."

There are many who are facing the death penalty. Yet she seems to get mostly the 'celebrity' cases. No ordinary murder cases for her!


"... When she first meets them, they do not want to plead guilty. Her job is to change their resolve, she said."

So the job of a defense attorney is to get her clients to plead guilty? With a 'defense' lawyer like this, who needs a prosecutor?


“They’re looking into the lens of life in prison in a box,” she said. “Our job is to provide them with a reason to live.”

No, her job is defend her client's interests in a diligent manner, not pretend to be their priest.


"....In most cases, she said she finds underlying mental illness."

So how come she never attempts the insanity defense?

Remember this woman never asked the investigators why they had more bullet holes at the Tucson crime scene than Loughner had bullets in his gun. I think her real job is to not challenge the official narrative with a messy trial, and to make the defendant go away with as little fuss as possible. The actual guilt or innocence of her clients is of no interest to her.