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North Korea: its all fun and games till someone loses a city.

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posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 

I would say that if enough of these missiles (anti-ship) were fired at these ships, I agree, that the vast array of weaponry these ships possess would be able to negate these anti-ship weapons. But it only takes one to cripple. I think NK has enough of them to complete the task or at the very least do some major damage. Plus they would be targeting (at least that would be my guess) the carriers.




posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by GonzoSinister
reply to post by jtma508
 


I think the issue is looking at this from the point of view of a normal (as normal as you get on ATS) person...

there is no compassion for the country or the people in it! so then there is nothing to lose, and its not about backing there actions, its no different that Bin Laden hiding in Pakistan... it could happen...

from a sociopaths point of view that's a win in there books, and from the point of view of the many fascistterrorist regimes that dislike the Us it would show the us would not be indestructible...

furthermore the financial burden and civil unrest that would come off the back of it (see how hurricane Katrina was dealt with and multiply it by a city of nuclear poisoned people)

if you look at it with concern for the life of your country and your people yes, it would be a pointless endeavour but if you take yourself out of that bubble and imagine... what would someone whos only goal is to watch America burn, to "bring them down a notch"

then suddenly there is a lot to gain from such actions
edit on 27-3-2013 by GonzoSinister because: (no reason given)


I agree! What if the sociopath just wants to be the first one to start the war? He clearly does not care about his starving citizens why would he care if they are annihilated while he hides somewhere. Seems like most comments here are blinded by the "Oh, our missile system keeps us safe". A possibility of another global war is fine, as long as US doesn't get hit.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by PLAYERONE01
 


I really don't think they can or will strike at the US. Maybe Guam, but not the states. The reasons are obvious. First it takes a barrage of missiles to get one through. So they would have to spend a lot of their missiles one hitting one distant and fairly well protected target. They would have to sacrifice hitting many much closer and strategically important targets to get one that causes devastation but has no effect on the retaliation.

Also the small yield nukes they are apparently/supposedly working on would barely make a dent in a large city. Take maybe a few city blocks out, maybe, if not just one. 4 kt isn't going to destroy a large American city.

Most likely they would shoot their missiles at Guam, and SK cities. They will hit all the SK air strips, and probably try to go after US forces nearby. If they went after any US cities it would be in Hawaii, but realistically it would be such a waste of resources. I would say it's more likely they use nukes strategically in SK. Using both nuclear artillery and weapons they sneak in.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by Druscilla
 


Haha.. points to you for knowing Manu Chao. I love that song.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
 


Whether a low yield or high yield, any nuclear explosion is going to have the same political and morale impacts.
Unless he were able to launch a pretty huge salvo of missiles, he'd have no hope of even hitting nearby targets with a missile attack, let alone the US mainland. The PAC-3 and Aegis components of the BMDS are present in the region.

But, having a NK sympathizer blow up a suitcase nuke or dirty bomb? Far more real of a threat, and far more difficult to counter.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by RedShirt73
reply to post by eriktheawful
 


Ok, Mr. Smartie pants, lol. I've read alot of different sites about NK's military capabilities and I would be inclined to think that despite the overwhelming belief that just because the US has a technological edge over NK that they will be the victor is a bad assumption. At the very least you will see massive casualites on both sides. I found this site to be somewhat informative. Please let me know what you think (NK Military)


Gazrok pretty much summed up what I would have said in his first post replying to this post.

Not being a smarty pants here. I was in the US Navy for 10 years, and I actually lived in SK for 3 in the 70s.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


Yeah. I think that is the most likely scenario. Low yield nukes either sneaked into SK via underground passages with disguised soldiers OR shot over in artillery form.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by RedShirt73
reply to post by Gazrok
 

I would say that if enough of these missiles (anti-ship) were fired at these ships, I agree, that the vast array of weaponry these ships possess would be able to negate these anti-ship weapons. But it only takes one to cripple. I think NK has enough of them to complete the task or at the very least do some major damage. Plus they would be targeting (at least that would be my guess) the carriers.


Carrier groups normally consist of:

The carrier obviously, and one or two support ships (oiler and tenders). The group also is normally made up of several cruisers, destroyers both AAW and ASW, and FFGs. These provide the defense for the group, not just the built in defense systems such as CIWS. Your carrier also has planes up in the air, fighters patrolling and EWACs for long range detections.

You normally keep your groups as far as you can from where you're attacking, so your planes have enough fuel to get there, perform their missions, and return. It's not so much to keep them out of an enemy's reach, but so that there is enough time to detect in coming enemy missiles/jets.

Your ASW platforms are there to watch for the subs, with the idea to keep them at bay or drive them off. Once a sub has fired, especially torps, it's bad news period. The idea is to detect them before they can do that.

Even if CISW were to intercept all the missiles, because they do so at such close range (less than 2 miles), you can still have debris slamming into the ship, causing damage, injuries and occupying your fire parties.

I'm not saying our carrier groups are like superman.....but from both the training and technology we used in the 80's and 90's when I was in, I know I would NOT want to attempt an attack on one. I'm pretty sure that things have gotten even more deadly in the last 2 decades since I've been out.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 

Just joking about the smartie pants thing, lol. I've always wanted to visit SK. What places would you recommend seeing before SHTF. I've already been to the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and China. Some really beautiful places in these countries.
edit on 27-3-2013 by RedShirt73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 

I agree with you. It would be extremely difficult but not impossible.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 



I'm not saying our carrier groups are like superman.....but from both the training and technology we used in the 80's and 90's when I was in, I know I would NOT want to attempt an attack on one. I'm pretty sure that things have gotten even more deadly in the last 2 decades since I've been out.


Oh, it's suicidal to be sure, but that won't stop NK commanders from ordering them to do it, so there will be some naval casualties in a NK confrontation.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by RedShirt73
reply to post by eriktheawful
 

Just joking about the smartie pants thing, lol. I've always wanted to visit SK. What places would you recommend seeing before SHTF.


My time was 76 to 79, so I imagine a lot of things have changed. However:

Seoul itself is a bustling city, but one of the main attractions was the open air market called Etaewon. If you like crowds, haggling over buying something (either Korean or black market sneakers), strange smells, and smells that smell good, but what is in the pot makes your eyeballs fall out, then this is the place for you.

Going out in the country side, there are several small villages that are tourist attractions. Sort of like Williamsburg, VA here in the US where people there dress up and live like colonial america. It's the same thing there, koreans living and doing things like they were several hundred years ago, including blacksmithing (and much to my and my classmates disapointment, we weren't allowed to buy the cool looking 3 foot swords).

A lot of people love to go to Inchon and down to Pusan that are sea ports. Inchon has these amazing tides that are unreal.

Visit during the late summer. Winter in Korea sucks. It gets COLD there. Spring and Fall, well you're going to wish you'd brought a boat since those are the monsoon seasons and it just rains, and rains, and rains.....
edit on 27-3-2013 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by eriktheawful
 



I'm not saying our carrier groups are like superman.....but from both the training and technology we used in the 80's and 90's when I was in, I know I would NOT want to attempt an attack on one. I'm pretty sure that things have gotten even more deadly in the last 2 decades since I've been out.


Oh, it's suicidal to be sure, but that won't stop NK commanders from ordering them to do it, so there will be some naval casualties in a NK confrontation.


To be sure.

However, it also depends on what confrontation it is: blockade? Fleet to Fleet action?

The key would be to keep track of where their ships are, and keep your fleets away from them (and the range of their ASMs). At the same time, if your intel on their position is good, and weapons go red and free, then you'd use your fast attack SSNs with their ASM missile on them.

It comes down to knowing who is where first, and how fast you can detect and respond.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by FraternitasSaturni
 





This South Korean soldier disagrees with your "impenetrable" dmz defense line theory... I've never been there... who am I to judge...


can you please quote me where i said this?

Again........there are SOME things in that article that sound correct, but a lot of it sounds like bunk........and I do not see this as a reputable source........

I notice you use a specific type of source for north korea to make them sound a lot mightier then they are, but then you post an off the wall source from an "anonymous" soldier to bolster your claims on SK.......

Just saying




Actually I dont know... it was a thread here in ATS.

It kinda made sense. They do have the numbers... topography is right, the tunnels ... well ... but you may be right, it may well be a tool of propaganda or... nothing at all.

Like I said... I know nothing about the DMZ and I never been there. My field of expertise was never required in a place like NK



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 


Blacksmithing, really? I haven't seen a forge since my grandfather had one in the 80's. He used to make horseshoes mostly, but also chains. I'd love to see one again.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by FraternitasSaturni
 





This South Korean soldier disagrees with your "impenetrable" dmz defense line theory... I've never been there... who am I to judge...


can you please quote me where i said this?

Again........there are SOME things in that article that sound correct, but a lot of it sounds like bunk........and I do not see this as a reputable source........

I notice you use a specific type of source for north korea to make them sound a lot mightier then they are, but then you post an off the wall source from an "anonymous" soldier to bolster your claims on SK.......

Just saying




Actually I dont know... it was a thread here in ATS.

It kinda made sense. They do have the numbers... topography is right, the tunnels ... well ... but you may be right, it may well be a tool of propaganda or... nothing at all.

Like I said... I know nothing about the DMZ and I never been there. My field of expertise was never required in a place like NK


I have back in 1977. There are mine fields on either side, but there are places where one can cross without fear of those. Panmunjom is one such place of course.

Another is an industrial complex where SK workers go, Kaesong.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by RedShirt73
reply to post by eriktheawful
 


Blacksmithing, really? I haven't seen a forge since my grandfather had one in the 80's. He used to make horseshoes mostly, but also chains. I'd love to see one again.


We're off topic but:

You don't have to go to SK to see a blacksmith. I'm sure if you google your area, you'll find one within driving distance. Lot of people keep up that craft, and still mentor. There are places here where I live in SC that are like that.

and now dinner is calling me gents. Good talking with you all.
edit on 27-3-2013 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by Druscilla
It's a long way from NK to US.


I expect the reply to this to absolutely destroy me but still, the distance was the same for the US at one point and were able to build up the capability to do so even against the odds. Against an insanely powerful technologically superior superpower? No. lol but they could learn just like we did, if they don't get destroyed before then.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by PLAYERONE01
 



There is only 1 way to guarantee an attack on the US...and that is preemptive work against Korea...they have leverage now in defense of a preemptive attack...something that Iraq and Afghanistan did NOT have...possibly explains some of the desire to acquire for countries like Iran etc...

The rest is pure speculation, assumption and a self fulfilling prophecy in the making.

*With the US not attacking there is a chance nothing happens and its mere posturing by NK...people live and the world adds another day to the already 50+ years without nuclear war...in SPITE of all the opportunities for such to happen...

*If the US attacked preemptively it will pretty much guarantee it takes a hit somehow, somewhere, sometime....the sacrifice isn't in waiting out the odds of inaction the sacrifice is fulfilling your own prophecy by beating a dog in a corner...and guaranteeing a fight to the death.

One approach leaves Korea with a choice...the other forces Korea's hand in the issue.

There is a reason you don't see nuclear countries bullying each-other....with preemptive strike attacks etc...its a zero sum game and they know that.

What you will see very often though is nuclear countries preemptively attacking, bullying and "do what thou will" with non-nuclear countries...and then we wonder why these countries suddenly want to level the playing field with nukes of their own...

the TOMD is alive and well...

I honestly don't see Korea first strike nuking the US...they would be obliterated before they could get more than 1 nuke off...

I do see Korea slipping a lucky punch through the onslaught if they were attacked preemptively though...

Having said that I think we all know its only a matter of time before the nuclear genie is let out of his bottle...I personally think it will come in the form of a suitcase nuke from an obscure border-less entity McVeigh style. Borders and Flags have way too much to lose to attempt participating in nuclear blows.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by yourmaker
 


Yes, but it cost the US decades, and military spending more than most countries, to build up that range and mobility. We have a couple of planes that cost as much as NK spends annually on defense.


Oh, and nice to meet you. How many people can say they met yourmaker....
edit on 27-3-2013 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)





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