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Animal sin sacrifices are prophesied to return... so what was the point of Jesus' sin sacrifice?

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posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:07 AM
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The idea that God needs blood sacrifice to forgive sin forms the basis of Christian sin sacrifice theology.

The doctrine of Jesus' sin sacrifice is taught by establishing paraellels to Old Testament practice of sacrificing unblemished animals as sin offerings. Jesus, being the "only begotten son of God", is supposedly the "perfect" sacrifice that took away sin once and for all(Hebrews 9:28)... and those who believe Jesus died for their sins are forgiven.

All that sounds fine and dandy. But what if the Bible foretells a time when the practice of animal sin sacrifices would return?

Ezekiel 39 describes a great future war in which Israel emerges victorious. In the next chapter, written during Ezekiels 25th year in exile, Ezekiel writes about his visions of the restored temple. In Ezekiel 43, he goes on to write about the regulations for animal sacrifices.

“Son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord says...
You are to give a young bull as a sin offering to the Levitical priests...You are to take some of its blood and put it on the four horns of the altar and on the four corners of the upper ledge and all around the rim...You are to take the bull for the sin offering and burn it in the designated part of the temple area...

“On the second day you are to offer a male goat without defect for a sin offering...When you have finished purifying it, you are to offer a young bull and a ram from the flock, both without defect....You are to offer them before the Lord, and the priests are to sprinkle salt on them and sacrifice them as a burnt offering to the Lord....

“For seven days you are to provide a male goat daily for a sin offering...you are also to provide a young bull and a ram from the flock, both without defect....For seven days they are to make atonement for the altar and cleanse it; thus they will dedicate it....the eighth day on, the priests are to present your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings on the altar...
-Ezekiel 43:18-27


Altars... unblemished animals... burnt offerings... Levitical priests.... it reads like something from the book of Leviticus, doesn't it? The problem is that these details on animal sin sacrifices were prophetic visions, timed to take place after the war of Ezekiel 38-39 , which Christians believe is a future event).

Now, my questions are simple....


1. If OT style sin sacrifices are prophesied to be restored in the future... just where does it leave Christian ideas of Jesus being the "perfect" sacrifice, who took away the sins of the world once and for all?

2. If OT style sin sacrifices are prophesied to be restored in the future... then what was the point of Jesus being sent down, abused, tortured and finally sacrificed as the "perfect" sacrifice to take away the worlds sins once and for all?

3. For those who believe God himself took on the form of a man and came down to be sacrificed.... just why would God go back to accepting sin sacrifices of unblemished animals if the job was already done with the crucifixion sin sacrifice of the perfect sacrifice, Jesus?

Discuss.
edit on 27-3-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 05:09 AM
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Whats the point you wont accept what is said anyway

1.If OT style sin sacrifices are prophesied to be restored in the future... just where does it leave Christian ideas of Jesus being the "perfect" sacrifice, who took away the sins of the world once and for all?

Jesus was a perfect sacrifice, the animal sacrifices will be carried out by Jews who dont accept Jesus sacrifice. Animal sacrifice is irrelevant to Christianity

2.TextIf OT style sin sacrifices are prophesied to be restored in the future... then what was the point of Jesus being sent down, abused, tortured and finally sacrificed as the "perfect" sacrifice to take away the worlds sins once and for all?

Again it is what the Jews who dont accept Christs sacrifice will do, its not Christian

3. For those who believe God himself took on the form of a man and came down to be sacrificed.... just why would God go back to accepting sin sacrifices of unblemished animals if the job was already done with the crucifixion sin sacrifice of the perfect sacrifice, Jesus?

God wont accept the blood animal sacrifice any longer, its a redundant religious practice.

The sacrifices will be carried out by Jews not Christians. Christs death was enough to cover all sin for all time if one reaches out to God.
Most Jews dont accept Christ so are intending to revert to their old lost ways when the temple and alter is rebuilt
I needed Christ's blood to forgive me,still do. Once and for all.
edit on 27-3-2013 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 05:49 AM
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This is indeed the point.

The sacrifices that are prophecied to resume are to be carried out by the Jews.
...now, the Bible teaches that at this point, the Jews have rejected Christ, and have likewise been rejected by God. However, that rejection is partial, not total.

What the BIble prophecies is that Israel will turn and earnestly seek her God during the tribulation period. This will result in the rebuilding of the temple, and the resumption of animal sacrifice. At the end of the tribulation, however, Israel will see her God: "they will look on the One they have pierced, and mourn as one mourns for an only child".

At this point, Israel will realise that the significance was not the sacrifices of lambs and goats, but what those things pointed to all along: the coming Messiah. They will realise that Christ's sacrifice was mirrored so many times before: in Isaac ("God will provide the lamb, my son" - yet He never did - He provided a RAM. This is significant!), in Joseph ("What you did, you intended for evil. God meant it for good."), and others.

The resumption of the sacrifices cannot and does not replace Christ. In fact, they never saved in the first place. It was the significance of what they pointed forward to that led to salvation... as the sacrifices were given to Israel to foreshadow Christ. The resumption itself represents not Israel in a right relationship with God, but Israel seeking God once more, and doing so in the way they are accustomed to.

Hopefully that answers your question.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 06:12 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 

The idea that God needs blood sacrifice to forgive sin forms the basis of Christian sin sacrifice theology.
That is the basis of one of several theories to explain what "Jesus died for us" means.
People with either limited imagination of lack of understanding of the New Testament, will go to the default mode of pagan sacrifice and sacrifice according to some verses in the Old Testament about sacrifice where the word "sin" is also associated.
The Penal Substitutionary Atonement theory of sacrifice is associated with Roman Catholic theology and got carried over into Protestantism, where people like Luther and Calvin wrote about it.
In the late nineteenth century, theologians formed a theology mining the Reformation writings as if they were scripture, coming up with the form of the belief we find today common among evangelical independent churches.
Biblical theology does not support the PSA theory, where instead it proposes the idea of a will and testament that the one who is granting those benefits dies so that the inheritors can receive them.
Also is presented in the NT the picture of Jesus being handed over to the enemy in order to break its hold over humanity.
Jesus in the Gospel presents the picture of him being lifted up to draw all men to him.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 06:36 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 

Jesus, being the "only begotten son of God", is supposedly the "perfect" sacrifice that took away sin once and for all(Hebrews 9:28)...
I think you got the wording off a bit.
Jesus died once for all time, to take away sin.
It does not say that it is some sort of magic sin payment, instead it says that it works through changing persons to be better and not sinning, something repeated going through ritual motions can not do.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 

Ezekiel 39 describes a great future war in which Israel emerges victorious. In the next chapter, written during Ezekiels 25th year in exile, Ezekiel writes about his visions of the restored temple. In Ezekiel 43, he goes on to write about the regulations for animal sacrifices.
Ezekiel was giving a picture of a hypothetical war against Israel that was meant to give a sort of message about what God could do, to get people to believe that worshiping the Israelite god is actually worth something, where actual history told a different story, where it was an exercise in futility in the face of Babylonian expansionism.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 06:45 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 

1. If OT style sin sacrifices are prophesied to be restored in the future...
That was a sort of symbolic telling of a restored temple that would be built after the end of the Babylonian captivity.
Dispensationalists are the people who take this story from Ezekiel and try to make it out as something still in the future.
Normal Christians do not believe in the 'restored Israel' theory since to support that idea is actually against the most fundamental Christian beliefs.
So, what your post boils down to is that all the topics you bring up only apply to the cult of Dispensationalism, and not to denominational Christianity.
edit on 27-3-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 11:56 AM
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All I see is stupid people, killing lovely animals for superstition. No more and no less.



posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 02:30 AM
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reply to post by borntowatch
 



Jesus was a perfect sacrifice, the animal sacrifices will be carried out by Jews who dont accept Jesus sacrifice. Animal sacrifice is irrelevant to Christianity


The Bible teaches us that God Himself is calling for animal sacrifices and sin offerings. Its not like the Jews are doing it on their own terms.

It kind of negates the point of Jesus being the perfect sacrifice .


God wont accept the blood animal sacrifice any longer, its a redundant religious practice.

You are kidding me right?
God himself is calling for these animal sacrifices in the future... thats what the Bible says.


The sacrifices will be carried out by Jews not Christians. Christs death was enough to cover all sin for all time if one reaches out to God.


Maybe so, but why is God asking for these sacrifices, if Christ's death was enough for all time? That was the point of the OP.



posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 02:43 AM
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reply to post by Awen24
 



What the BIble prophecies is that Israel will turn and earnestly seek her God during the tribulation period. This will result in the rebuilding of the temple, and the resumption of animal sacrifice. At the end of the tribulation, however, Israel will see her God: "they will look on the One they have pierced, and mourn as one mourns for an only child".


You seem to be missing that God calls for those sacrifices.

“Son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: These will be the regulations for sacrificing burnt offerings....

You say Jesus was the perfect sacrifice and all, but God seems to be calling for animal sacrifices once again.


The resumption of the sacrifices cannot and does not replace Christ.

Thats not the case, considering animal sacrifices and sin offerings described in Ezekiel 43.



posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 04:13 AM
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The need for sacrifices ended at the crucifixion of Christ as Daniel prophesied in his 70 weeks.

After the Talmudic Jews rebuild the temple and restart the sacrifices, God will completely destroy the temple as Jesus prophesied. Not one stone will be left upon another.



posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 04:18 AM
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reply to post by truejew
 



The need for sacrifices ended at the crucifixion of Christ as Daniel prophesied in his 70 weeks.

Then why is God commanding animal sin sacrifices in Ezekiel 43? Are those forgeries?



posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 06:08 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Ezekiel was before Christ.



posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by truejew
 



Ezekiel was before Christ.


Well yes. But he received a vision that God is calling for animal sacrifices and sin offerings in the FUTURE.



posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 03:19 AM
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Well yes. But he received a vision that God is calling for animal sacrifices and sin offerings in the FUTURE.


The Second Temple was in Ezekiel's future. His vision (chapter 43) occurs to him during the exile. The exile ended, a new Temple was built, and animal sacrifces took place there.



posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 03:33 AM
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reply to post by eight bits
 



The Second Temple was in Ezekiel's future. His vision (chapter 43) occurs to him during the exile. The exile ended, a new Temple was built, and animal sacrifces took place there.


The visions occur to him in his 25th year of exile...and includes details on the future temple, animal sacrifices and the land, itself. Going by the text, it is a future event...

“And the name of the city from that time on will be: the Lord is there.”

Ezekiel, just before the visions of the restored temple and animal sacrifices.... wrote about the great war described in Chapters 38 and 39... which Christians unanimously believe takes place in the future. The restoration of the temple and the sacrifices take place after the future war. The animal sacrifices and the great war takes place in our future.



posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 04:20 AM
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Christians are not unanimous about the interpretation of Old Testament prophecy, period. There is nothing in Ezekiel that places the fulfillment of prophecies in the same order as their revelation. It would appear that Ezekiel 43 was fulfilled centuries before there were any Christians. If somebody believes that it will be fulfilled again, then, of course, that's their affair.



posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 

. . . wrote about the great war described in Chapters 38 and 39... which Christians unanimously believe takes place in the future.
Christians do not "unanimously believe" in the 'future' fulfillment of that 'war'.
Not all Christians are Dispensationalists.
There are a bunch of them in the US, which has been especially targeted for that propaganda, being the main supporters of the Zionist regime illegally occupying Palestine.
People are all supposed to be focused on and in fear of this great hypothetical war in the middle east, so they will acquiesce to tons of weapons being handed over to the regime, funded by US tax dollars.
So the methodology is to have foreign agents to infiltrate the US to subsidize independent non-denominational preachers to teach this philosophy and there has always been plenty who will line up at the gravy train.
edit on 30-3-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 05:10 AM
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reply to post by eight bits
 



Christians are not unanimous about the interpretation of Old Testament prophecy, period.There is nothing in Ezekiel that places the fulfillment of prophecies in the same order as their revelation. It would appear that Ezekiel 43 was fulfilled centuries before there were any Christians.


Ezekiels temple is known by Christians and Jews as the third temple, which is to be built in Jerusalem sometime in the future.

Considering this third temple is an Old Testament prophecy, its a bigger deal to Jews, who don't believe the Christian idea of a human sin sacrifice.
For Christians, a future temple where sin sacrifices resume would mean there was no point or purpose in Jesus' perfect sin sacrifice.



posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 05:19 AM
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Ezekiels temple is known by Christians and Jews as the third temple, which is to be built in Jerusalem sometime in the future.


I understand that that is your interpretation of Ezekiel 43, a view which you share with some people from other Abrahamic faiths. Was there some part of the following statement of mine that was unclear?


If somebody believes that it will be fulfilled again, then, of course, that's their affair.





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