Marriage is NOT a Constitutional Right!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen23

Originally posted by SamaraTen

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by SamaraTen

 

Have you heard of a man named Ted Haggard?

Seemed like he was making these same religious based claims about homosexuality and how evil it Is for society. Funny huh?

Let me ask you this: if everyone suddenly became "gay"...where would our species be?

Answer: EXTINCT!

Let me take this one please:

Our species would be clothed and Well Dressed,
have manners, a BIG Sense of Humor, and when Wars happened the Wigs would come off of many, while along side of our Theban Warriors, but we would surely stop our self destructive behaviors as most gays are very reflective about abuse in all forms.
Science would most likely excel as would art, and most social phenomenon.
Parties would be fabulous!!
Everyone would be well fed, because we LOVE TO COOK.
We are Everywhere, so I am sure we would advance the species into the direction Humans need to be working towards which is space..... because we want to find those Space Gods and Goddess more than most straight peoples in my humble opinion.
So,, also,, we love children,, and No not pedophilia wise, but as their teachers, mothers, professors and fathers, I promise there would be children.
Some would be straight.
AND WE WOULD LOVE THEM ANYWAY.
The Human race would continue as it always has,, with ups and downs.
So sorry you can only see such negative outcomes to something as basic as who can get married and who can have children.
It could be a better world if you allowed for more in the small one you inhabit.

Let me just squash your ridiculous theory with 1 picture. That's what represents the "gay community". Love the sign tho'. "10 years together = love". Does it get any STUPIDER? I didn't know the amount of time you spent with someone qualified as "love". Geesh, your people surely are CONFUSED.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen23
You Obviously didn't look at who Bayard Rustin Was, because, yes he was doing what he did for BOTH,, being Black and GAY,,, Openly then,, you have to be kidding.

So sorry to post anything beneath your level of spirituality and time, I have twisted nothing dear online person, I leave that up to the bigots and fundies. You really reek of FEAR, and I am truly sorry about that for you.
I wish you the best with your smiting attitude, I am sure it has gotten you far in this life.
Again Have a Blessed Day.
Oh By the Way,,, when I was 'Saved" it was because of How the Old Hymn " JUST AS I AM" moved my heart closer to god. You can think what you wish,, God and I are just Fine with WHO I AM,, My deity LOVES UNCONDITIONALLY unlike the being you present.

Originally posted by SamaraTen
reply to post by EarthCitizen23

 

I ignored your post because it wasn't worth my time. The man you referred to was doing his work for blacks not gays. IF you're gonna twist something...make it accurate.

Add: I'll say it to you again, God is not going to change HIS laws because you're gay. You're the one that needs to "change your thinking".

edit on 27-3-2013 by SamaraTen because: (no reason given)

Reek of fear? Well, yaaaaaaah, but it's not of "gay people". I fear what God may do to us (excuse me, to YOU) for your total MOCKERY of HIS word. If anyone is the bigot in all of this, it's you. You're the one with the name calling; spewing your 'greek god' BS. Then, you want to hide behind the word: Love?

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Get off of the hollywood crack or crystal meth.

Originally posted by Cor Leonis
Marriage is a union between a male and a female according to the Word of God, Period! What, do you really want fire?

While I have already said it isnt a right to get married, I now feel compelled to point out another simple to understand fact.

Your god didnt exist at all when marriage was invented, man was still worshipping multiple gods for thousands of years before your god was ever brought up.

Just because your religion claims authority from an imagined being ( history speaks volumes about your god being nothing but the newest incarnation of god worship, and by no means a factual being) doesnt make it any more true, than me claiming the easter bunny gave me the authority to make easter on march 23 every year.

Besides your own god forbid you from forcing anything on anyone, including your own opinion of what does or doesnt constitute marriage.

And I quote " vengeance is mine, it is I who shall repay". I believe your god has made it quite clear, it isnt your place to enforce gods rules. He clearly states quite clearly, it is not you right or place to judge. It is his.

You are judging what is and is not right, your god has already said judgement is reserved for him, and him alone.

I will quote more scriptures for you if you want, I have read the christian bible several times, I have verified 99% reading comprehension and retention. I know the material quite well. As a matter of fact, it even says many times, in the words of jesus himself, that if one simply follows their conscience, they will be without sin. Meaning ones own moral compass will inform them as to what is right.

Maybe I missed this part, but I dont remeber god saying he needs men to enforce his will, as no man may know the will of god, which it clearly says many times.

I think your being quite ignorant, to on one hand be using god as a justification, and on the other to be ignoring his tenants your claiming are so sacred they cannot be violated.

Just my 2 cents.

reply to post by SamaraTen

Blah, blah, blah. Your book says a lot of nonsense i'm sure you ignore and dismiss. Either way, America is not a theocracy, therefore what you believe your invisible sky friend believes should not enter the political realm. America is supposed a secular nation.

Originally posted by argentus
reply to post by neo96

 

I won't characterize anyone as a 'hater'.

The 'rights' are very simple; a legally married couple enjoys:

1) tax benefit
2) insurance benefits that are pooled, such as insurance via a person's employment, as opposed to two people each having a separate policy
3) hospital visitation rights
4) the ability to make previously-agreed upon life-changing decisions, such as when a person cannot make the decisions for themselves (and I'll admit freely that this can be a contract between any people, married or not, however the system is far more geared toward married couples
5) Legal responsibility for their children (many, many gay/lesbian couples have children)
6) there are others

These are basic human ........... privileges of the legally married. I see no reason whatsoever why those ..... dare I say it.... I dare....... rights ..... should be hinged on an arbitrary variable of gender or sexual orientation. Why? Because they are legal conventions created for citizens of a nation, not genders of those citizens.

That's my take on it anyway. Your results may vary.

Well technically, gay sex falls under sodomy, which I assure you is quite illegal in most of the country. Therefore, it most certainly is not a legal protected activity.

As it is in fact patently illegal, in almost every area of america, being gay, is technically, classifiable as illegal.

I am not arguing the merits, or the morality etc...

I am simply stating known verifiable facts.

Originally posted by SamaraTen
ve been married for 16 years and i have 3 daughters. But, imma let y'all continue in your ignorance. It seems like all the gay community cares about is themselves with a total disregard to what God has to say.

I haven't heard God say too much about anything recently. He is welcome to come on down and clear things up Himself if it is all that important.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
reply to post by SamaraTen

 

Blah, blah, blah. Your book says a lot of nonsense i'm sure you ignore and dismiss. Either way, America is not a theocracy, therefore what you believe your invisible sky friend believes should not enter the political realm. America is supposed a secular nation.

Blah, blah, blah to you.

The founding fathers were religious men, but that was not their philosophy. Being men of education during their time, they were well read and took their philosophy from the idea of Natural Law. They believed, as stated in the Declaration of Independence, that all men were created equal and that their Creator (who they called God) had given all men certain rights which could not justly be taken away. This manifested itself in their view of the use of government being to serve the people and the view that government must not interfere with the rights God had given.

Hate to tell you, but being gay is NOT a "God given right". How can it be, when the God they believed in, totally condemned it?

Is it a good idea to teach the Bible in public schools? My answer is a resounding yes and here’s why: There is no question about the importance of the Bible and its influence in American history. Where — may I ask — did the founding fathers of this nation get their founding principles — especially the principle of individual liberty — from? From the “benevolent” king George III? From the mind of man? No, they got their inspiration as well as the founding principles from the Bible, thus, this book is indisputable in our nation’s founding and its history. Source

Some of you need to study up on this country called: America. You're seriously confused if you think the BIBLE has no relevance to it's history. If you're "gay" and don't live in America or know it's history, please, KEEP QUIET! Your points are irrelevant.

Originally posted by SamaraTen
Some of you need to study up on this country called: America. You're seriously confused if you think the BIBLE has no relevance to it's history. If you're "gay" and don't live in America or know it's history, please, KEEP QUIET! Your points are irrelevant.

I'm going to go ahead and disregard that opinion piece you linked as its an OPINION, is not sourced, and has very little basis in fact. While the founder fathers may be described as religious, they were not all christian and certainly would not entertain the ideas of religious zealots such as yourself. Most of them were deists. Thats not to say that christianity had no role in American history. I mean it justified wonderful things for Americans: slavery, genocide, the salem witch trials, preventing divorce forcing women to stay married to men they didn't love, making women second class citizen, etc. The list goes on. That doesn't mean America is not supposed to be a secular nation. The problem you are having, that a lot of you religious people are having, is that religion is losing its influence in politics. Get over it, get used to it because its only going to get worse.

It has become pretty clear that ATS has its share of bigots. I thought that kind of thinking was dying out but I see it is still going strong.

25 years ago if someone had asked me should homosexuals have the legal right to marry I would have thought they were crazy to even ask. I was also a dumb redneck back then. I still may be a redneck but certainly not as dumb. Back then interracial couples were just starting to be accepted publicly they say history repeats itself and it really does. I am seeing some of the same idiotic comments now about gay marriage as I would hear then about interracial marriage. First page I believe someone had already made the comparison to marrying a horse such an ugly irrational post.

The fact that the best argument anyone has against such things is a logical fallacy proves that there isn’t a good argument against gay marriage. Here is what I mean.


Anyway the way I see it if someone is gay they should be able to love marry be happy or miserable the same as strait people can. If the laws changed tomorrow legalizing gay marriage across the country or even the world it wouldn’t affect my life in the slightest in fact the only ones who will be affected will be gay couples. For those who are so against it seems to me they have some deep seated let’s just say problems.

Probably the most ludicrous statement I have read on here has been where SamarTen said and I quote “I feel like MY CIVIL RIGHTS are being violated, more than those that are gay.” That has got to be the in the top ten of for the weakest arguments against gay marriage I have ever heard. Unless he made a bet to where if it is legalized he has to get married to another man then I can see why he is so vested in this issue otherwise he is just another person trying to force his religion on others.

I am sure within the next 20 years gay marriage will be as accepted by the general public same as interracial marriage is today which means there will still be holdout bigots like Westborough Church running around but they will be the outcasts as it should be.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional

Originally posted by Cor Leonis
Marriage is a union between a male and a female according to the Word of God, Period! What, do you really want fire?

While I have already said it isnt a right to get married, I now feel compelled to point out another simple to understand fact.

Your god didnt exist at all when marriage was invented, man was still worshipping multiple gods for thousands of years before your god was ever brought up.

Just because your religion claims authority from an imagined being ( history speaks volumes about your god being nothing but the newest incarnation of god worship, and by no means a factual being) doesnt make it any more true, than me claiming the easter bunny gave me the authority to make easter on march 23 every year.

Besides your own god forbid you from forcing anything on anyone, including your own opinion of what does or doesnt constitute marriage.

And I quote " vengeance is mine, it is I who shall repay". I believe your god has made it quite clear, it isnt your place to enforce gods rules. He clearly states quite clearly, it is not you right or place to judge. It is his.

You are judging what is and is not right, your god has already said judgement is reserved for him, and him alone.

I will quote more scriptures for you if you want, I have read the christian bible several times, I have verified 99% reading comprehension and retention. I know the material quite well. As a matter of fact, it even says many times, in the words of jesus himself, that if one simply follows their conscience, they will be without sin. Meaning ones own moral compass will inform them as to what is right.

Maybe I missed this part, but I dont remeber god saying he needs men to enforce his will, as no man may know the will of god, which it clearly says many times.

I think your being quite ignorant, to on one hand be using god as a justification, and on the other to be ignoring his tenants your claiming are so sacred they cannot be violated.

Just my 2 cents.

edit on 27-3-2013 by inverslyproportional because: (no reason given)

Your 2 cents wasn't even worth 1 cent. Nobody is casting "judgment" just stating God's case. Jesus said: Go into all the world and preach to every living being. In other words...Ah, you'll figure it out. I haven't judged anyone. I haven't said: God is going to punish you. You're all going to hell because your gay or anything of that nature. However, what the 'gay community' is saying is that God accepts their actions and that is faaaaar from the truth. How could they think God permits it, when HE SPECIFICALLY states otherwise? You can justify your sins, however you see fit, but mocking God is not a very wise thing to do. As you can see, America is no longer the 'great' country it USED TO BE. There has to be a reason. And the reason is, America has turned it's back on HIM and now, HE's turning HIS back on America! See how that works? Probably not!

Originally posted by Grimpachi
It has become pretty clear that ATS has its share of bigots. I thought that kind of thinking was dying out but I see it is still going strong.

25 years ago if someone had asked me should homosexuals have the legal right to marry I would have thought they were crazy to even ask. I was also a dumb redneck back then. I still may be a redneck but certainly not as dumb. Back then interracial couples were just starting to be accepted publicly they say history repeats itself and it really does. I am seeing some of the same idiotic comments now about gay marriage as I would hear then about interracial marriage. First page I believe someone had already made the comparison to marrying a horse such an ugly irrational post.

The fact that the best argument anyone has against such things is a logical fallacy proves that there isn’t a good argument against gay marriage. Here is what I mean.

Anyway the way I see it if someone is gay they should be able to love marry be happy or miserable the same as strait people can. If the laws changed tomorrow legalizing gay marriage across the country or even the world it wouldn’t affect my life in the slightest in fact the only ones who will be affected will be gay couples. For those who are so against it seems to me they have some deep seated let’s just say problems.

Probably the most ludicrous statement I have read on here has been where SamarTen said and I quote “I feel like MY CIVIL RIGHTS are being violated, more than those that are gay.” That has got to be the in the top ten of for the weakest arguments against gay marriage I have ever heard. Unless he made a bet to where if it is legalized he has to get married to another man then I can see why he is so vested in this issue otherwise he is just another person trying to force his religion on others.

I am sure within the next 20 years gay marriage will be as accepted by the general public same as interracial marriage is today which means there will still be holdout bigots like Westborough Church running around but they will be the outcasts as it should be.

Sorry to say, but a person can't hide their skin color. Another WEAK argument you bring to the table. I'm a product of a bi-racial marriage. I know, 1st hand, what it's like to be discriminated against. It's the same feeling all over again. Since this post has been made, there's been nothing but bashing, name calling, saying i'm a "hater", etc, etc. So, tell me, what's the difference? The way i see it, it's either we 'accept' it or get run over by the majority, who believe the lies. Not much difference now, as compared to 40 plus years ago.

So, let me AGAIN, state for the record: I don't care that people are gay, just don't drag your weak arguments into the mix. Come up with something more creative than "equal rights". Gay people have the same rights as everyone else. Marriage, on the other hand, is believed to be a sacred bond between MAN AND WOMAN. What part don't you get???

Originally posted by acmpnsfal

Originally posted by SamaraTen
Some of you need to study up on this country called: America. You're seriously confused if you think the BIBLE has no relevance to it's history. If you're "gay" and don't live in America or know it's history, please, KEEP QUIET! Your points are irrelevant.

I'm going to go ahead and disregard that opinion piece you linked as its an OPINION, is not sourced, and has very little basis in fact. While the founder fathers may be described as religious, they were not all christian and certainly would not entertain the ideas of religious zealots such as yourself. Most of them were deists. Thats not to say that christianity had no role in American history. I mean it justified wonderful things for Americans: slavery, genocide, the salem witch trials, preventing divorce forcing women to stay married to men they didn't love, making women second class citizen, etc. The list goes on. That doesn't mean America is not supposed to be a secular nation. The problem you are having, that a lot of you religious people are having, is that religion is losing its influence in politics. Get over it, get used to it because its only going to get worse.

Religion? Maaaaan, what i'm talking is just basic LAWS of NATURE. But, i forget, you all think homosexuality is natural. When 2 men or women, NATURALLY produce a child, YOU'LL GET MY How's that??? Fair enough? Now, GO PRODUCE. I'll be waiting to cast my vote.

I could care less what these people do, just leave the rest of us the hell alone! All this "praise me" and "look at me" while having another parade to celebrate the fact that they're gay. I couldn't care less what you do, but I don't want to see it my media and I don't want to read about it. Honestly, people are sick of it being rubbed in our damn face. When you have less than 10% of the population that claims to be homosexual, sorry, it's not normal. Learn to accept that.

Originally posted by Theimp
I could care less what these people do, just leave the rest of us the hell alone! All this "praise me" and "look at me" while having another parade to celebrate the fact that they're gay. I couldn't care less what you do, but I don't want to see it my media and I don't want to read about it. Honestly, people are sick of it being rubbed in our damn face. When you have less than 10% of the population that claims to be homosexual, sorry, it's not normal. Learn to accept that.

That's exactly how i feel. Men acting like women hardly seems "normal". Even less normal when my daughters see it and are like: "Ewwww". And actually, 10% is a pretty big number.

The Williams Institute at the UCLA School of Law, a sexual orientation law and public policy think tank, estimates that 9 million (about 3.8%) of Americans identify as gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender (2011). The institute also found that bisexuals make up 1.8% of the population, while 1.7% are gay or lesbian. Transgender adults make up 0.3% of the population. Source

reply to post by SamaraTen


The part where you say you feel your rights are violated.


For those who use the bible for reasoning against gay marriage or for that matter to justify their bigotry why is it they generally ignore gods other words? It also says to praise your leaders observe the Sabbath, adultery, stealing, murder(war) there were an awful lot of them pushing for war in Iraq, how many have taken the lords name in vain. Some of these are the big ten. There is nothing in the ten commandments about gays. This thread reminds me of a couple quotes.

The Pharisees broke Moses' tables into pieces, and, gathering up the fragments, took to themselves what part of duty they pleased, and left the rest alone.
Author: Jeremy Taylor

There are two sorts of hypocrites: ones that are deceived with their outward morality and external religion; and the others are those that are deceived with false discoveries and elevation; which often cry down works, and men's own righteousness.
Author: Jonathan Edwards

Of all bad men religious bad men are the worst.
Author: C.S. Lewis

Those who complain most are most to be complained of.
Author: Matthew Henry

the Bible also says that anyone who obtains a divorce and marries another is in adulterer. Remember that 80% of this country is Christian yet we have a 50% divorce rate. A majority of divorces are a result of irreconcilable differences, not adultery, which implies that Christians are again practicing selective morality. How many Christians are working on a second, third or fourth marriage?

1) “So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man put asunder” (Matthew 19:6 & Mark 10:9).

2) “Whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery” (Matthew 5:32, 19:9 & Luke 16:18).

3) "Whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery" (Matthew 5:32).

4) "...whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her" (Mark 10:11 & Luke 16:18), which applies to women as well (Mark 10:12).


Christians are not supposed to take their disputes before non-Christian courts or judges. (“If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints?” -- 1 Corinthians 6:1 NIV) How interesting! Considering that state is separate from church all courts are supposedly “ungodly”. Does this stop Christians from tying up the supreme court with law suits concerning school prayer, abortion, or numerous other absurdities? Hell no it doesn’t, and my taxes are paying the #ing bill for their hypocrisy!


Here is perhaps the mother of verses ignored: “Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Matthew 7:1) and “Judge not, and ye shall not be judged, condemn not and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven” (Luke 6:37). I have yet to meet a Christian who has not judged my atheism. The whole world is chalk full of judges, juries, voters, employers, teachers, etc. which are all constantly judging others.


Lastly, Jesus, who clearly is of greater importance than Paul, said the Old Law was to remain in force until heaven and earth passed away and all is accomplished (“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven”-Matthew 5:18-19 RSV). Heaven and earth still exist and many prophecies are not yet fulfilled. How many times have you heard some lame ass Christian say “the Old testament doesn’t matter, Jesus was the lamb and abolished it”? The bible says that Christians should still be following the Old Law.

Take for instance how Biblicists approach the Old Testament. They leap in and out of the Old Law like a porpoise in a ship’s wake. If they like it, they quote it; if they don’t, they won’t.

So what exactly do you not understand. If you are trying to justify your bigotry by using the bible you are a hypocrite. I can post a ton of other quotes backed by scripture but I doubt you will care because like others you are simply using selective morality.

reply to post by SamaraTen


Dear SamaraTen,

You did not respond to my my response, so I will ask a new question. It is in direct response to your title. Is marriage between a man and a woman a Constitutionally protected right or does the government get to decide if you are truly married? A simple answer will be fine. Can I "marry" a woman if the government says that it is illegal, does the government define what a marriage is? Have fun with that.

reply to post by tnhiker

Nope, because its by choice. If a single hetero wants to get married, they do

But what if no one wants to marry me?

Isn't that discrimination, because I can't get the benefits that married people get?

reply to post by Grimpachi
What a joke! Love the way you twist it to fit your agenda. Perhaps, you should try digging a little deeper.

Leviticus 18:22

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by SamaraTen

 

Dear SamaraTen,

You did not respond to my my response, so I will ask a new question. It is in direct response to your title. Is marriage between a man and a woman a Constitutionally protected right or does the government get to decide if you are truly married? A simple answer will be fine. Can I "marry" a woman if the government says that it is illegal, does the government define what a marriage is? Have fun with that.

Marriage is an act before God. I'm not sure how God can honor same sex marriage, when He considers it an ABOMINATION. If HE didn't detest it, why would it have been written? Why did the author use it as an example? Maybe because it goes against God's will?

27So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female He created them. 28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

Now, doesn't same sex marriage totally defy what God had spoken and commanded man to do:

“Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth"

reply to post by SamaraTen


You are the one misreading. You must not have comprehended either. Your selective morality on this issue is apparent to all. You pick and choose what to follow and try to use the bible to justify your bigotry. I don’t know why you are even bringing up the issue of where they marry I couldn’t care less where it happens. I will leave you with a few more quotes to ponder however I doubt you will. Just remember Hitler used the bible to justify his actions as well and like so many others he thought his actions were supported by the text of the bible.

BTW the argument you made about not being able to hide skin color is false Michael Jackson proved that and Christian Mormons Believe through righteousness it can be changed so I am not sure which Christian God you follow because there seems to be so many yet you all claim there is only one. Your actions speak louder though.

Here is perhaps the mother of verses ignored: “Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Matthew 7:1) and “Judge not, and ye shall not be judged, condemn not and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven” (Luke 6:37).

They are not to oppose evil (“But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also”-- Matthew 5:39). If this were followed one might just as well abolish law enforcement.

Jesus said prayer should be a private affair devoid of public display: "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room (or closet.) and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret..." (Matthew 6:5-6 RSV).

I must be going now I will leave you to your selective morality and thinly veiled bigotry. I may come back later to see how your crusade is going.