Marriage is NOT a Constitutional Right!

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by SamaraTen

 

Have you heard of a man named Ted Haggard?

Seemed like he was making these same religious based claims about homosexuality and how evil it Is for society. Funny huh?

Let me ask you this: if everyone suddenly became "gay"...where would our species be?

Answer: EXTINCT!

Why is this even an issue? The only reason it is an issue is religion makes it one. People say its gays trying to force acceptance; however, its more like religions shoving their crap down everybodies throat.

Its been around since the beginning of time, hell there was even cities of it in the Bible(if you believe the skewed viewpoints presented there). When you put aside all arguments and just think why you(nobody in particular, using you as a general statement) are against it, it is either from religious viewpoints, or deep rooted homophobia.

No government function should be allowed to restrict peoples happiness. If being gay and marrying gay makes you happy, more power to you. Personally I think any two people who love each other and live each other should be afforded all the benefits and rights of a married couple, mostly so they don't have to get married to receive them.

You know what else is funny....all i said was Marriage is NOT a Constitutional Right; which it's not; and suddenly i'm homophobic. You people know NOTHING about the Constitution but yet scream about how badly it's being violated. This is why TPTB are having their way with you. YOU KNOW NOTHING about your "rights".

reply to post by Southern Guardian

Or is it just a right granted to people by the constitution?

Our rights, my rights do not come from my next door neighbors, or government or some politician in DC.

They never have,and never will.

You just don't like the idea of giving gays that right nonetheless, and you hide behind the excuse that this law is trying to force you to think otherwise in order to oppose that right.

WEAK

Yes it does, unless I'm lead to believe that there isn't a Federal position in opposition to the rights of homosexual couples to marry?

Right along with "FEDERAL" support of rights so the point is?

Nobody is forcing you to read these threads, nobody is forcing you to respond, nobody is forcing you to post "positive things" about gay marriage. If you don't like threads about these things, don't participate, simple. There are plenty of other threads, websites, than to be posting responses on this thread

Using my rights here oh well

.....and it's not going to change with gay marriage, so keep up the hate for as long as you want.

That's awesome someone says they don't support gay marriage they automatically get labeled a hater.

Well done!

Again, nobody is forcing you to think otherwise. The fact you're voluntarily posting in this thread, making it clear that you don't support the lifestyles of gays, lesbians, gay marriage, is pretty clear evidence of this.

And the point is?

Want to point out where I have to support a persons lifestyle choice?

Originally posted by tnhiker
Why is this even an issue? The only reason it is an issue is religion makes it one. People say its gays trying to force acceptance; however, its more like religions shoving their crap down everybodies throat.

Its been around since the beginning of time, hell there was even cities of it in the Bible(if you believe the skewed viewpoints presented there). When you put aside all arguments and just think why you(nobody in particular, using you as a general statement) are against it, it is either from religious viewpoints, or deep rooted homophobia.

No government function should be allowed to restrict peoples happiness. If being gay and marrying gay makes you happy, more power to you. Personally I think any two people who love each other and live each other should be afforded all the benefits and rights of a married couple, mostly so they don't have to get married to receive them.

Sodom and Gomorrah is skewed? Ever heard of Greenwich Village or West Hollywood? Have you seen how gay people act, in public, during their "gay pride parades"?

Also, murder has been around since the beginning...lest you forget, does that make it "right"?

And again, what RIGHTS do married people have???? You act like married people get special privileges.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia

that Orwellian control scheme of redefining words to mean their exact opposite, in order to control the mind, and the population.

so when they use these emotional arguments, it sets off my semantics d-other, or having sex, or whatever....etectors that indicate when someone is using language to lie about their true aims.

'Orwellian control schemes'
'their true aims'

So you believe gay marriage is some larger social conspiracy against the population? So what happens if say Gay marriage becomes a nationwide practice along with heterosexual marriage, what's the next move? Is this a conspiracy to destroy the family? Give us the down low, this is explosive stuff you've got here about gay marriage.

Marriage is not a RIGHT

You evidently view this differently from me. I don't think marriage has a place in the Federal government. It is evidently a religious and cultural ceremony that should not be regulated or dictated by the government in the first place. I think the mere fact marriage has become this ceremony controlled and regulated by the government, restricted, is a demonstration that rights are being restricted. The mere fact DOMA exists is demonstration of the government trying to influence and force society to practice and celebrate marriage in a specific way when it really should be left up to the individuals. So yes, this is a debate on RIGHTS.

when I speak of Marriage, I am not speaking of loving another person who loves you

No, this isn't merely about love, you're quiet right, nobody was debating this.

OP, if you don't want a gay marriage, don't get one. What other people do is not your business.

reply to post by DarknStormy


I am Pagan, so your Bible is useless here as in other venue.

For your edification there are a gay gaggle of Gods and Goddess who were Bisexual or Homosexual.
So, within the context of religious freedom you are treading dangerous ground,, because Freedom of Worship is a BIG Cornerstone of America's freedoms. They were NOT made just for the comfort of White Male Christians, as so many would have us believe.

Anyway,, case you didn't know:
(Source Link below)

Apollo & Hyacinth (Greek) - Apollo, a god of music, dance, healing and inspiration, is known for taking male lovers, most notably Hyacinth. Hyacinth was mortally wounded. Unable to save his beloved, Apollo created the Hyacinth flower from his blood. Hyacinth later became a divine patron to those pursuing same sex love.


Artemis (Greek) - Artemis is the huntress, the goddess of the Moon and the protector of women and children. Artemis rejects traditional roles, such as marriage, and feels kinship to those beyond traditional roles. Her festivals included same sex worship from men and women.


Astarte (Phoenician/Canaanite) - Astarte is a manifestation of the Great Mother, sometimes depicted as a hermaphrodite. Astarte's temples were served by the kelabim, a gay male priest caste.


Chin (Mayan) - Chin, a small child or dwarf god, introduced homoerotic relationships to the Mayan nobles. The nobles obtained youths of the lower classes to be the lovers of the noble's sons. Such unions were considered legal marriages under Mayan law.


Dionysus (Greek) - As a god of wine, madness, poetry and love, Dionysus is depicted as soft and feminine, yet virile and strong. He wore women's clothing to hide from his stepmother's wrath. Dionysus became lovers with the gods Adonis and Hermaphrodite.


Eros, Hermes & Hercules (Greek) - Eros, Hermes and Hercules granted blessings upon male couples, the gifts of loyalty, eloquence and strength, respectively. Eros was called upon by warrior-lovers before a fight, because the ancient Greeks believed victory is often achieved because of the love between men.


Ganesha (Hindu) - Most popularly depicted as a four armed, plump man with an elephant's head, Ganesha is the breaker of obstacles and linked to homoerotic worship involving anal sex. Ganesha is mixed in terms of sexuality, masculine in gender, but soft, tender and portrayed with breasts.


Odin (Norse) - Viewed as the all father and creator, Odin would often disguise himself as a woman. His relationship with his blood brother, Loki, had homoerotic overtones, and he studied the feminine mysteries of the goddess Freya.


Pan (Greek) The goat god of music and nature, depicted with panpipes, erect penis and chasing after maidens and men, particularly shepherds.


Set & Horus (Egyptian) - Horus, the divine child, was in constant conflict with his uncle Set, but one story survives of oral intercourse between Set and Horus, and Set ultimately gives birth to Horus' child. Gay priests served Horus' mother, the goddess Isis, in ancient Egypt.


Zeus (Greek) - Zeus is a sky god and well known for his sexual liaisons, including his male cupbearer Ganymede. In ancient material, he is transgendered as Zeus Arrhenothelus, both mother and father.

This was from a Great Article at WITCHVOX

reply to post by DarknStormy


Totally agree with you! The deal is, We have a group of people trying to change the definition of words and their traditional meaning. Two women calling each other "wife" or "husband". Two men calling each other "husband" or wife".

Then they want to call their twisted relationship a "marriage". You can't argue with this "enlightened" thinking.

They'll even tell you "but animals do it". Animals eat their own crap also.... but, oh well. If thats your thing... have at it.

Yeah, it's going to hell in a handbasket.

reply to post by SamaraTen

well luckily you can ensure that does not happen by refusing to be turned. bully for you and you then get all the poontang.

god can stay out of my life, i like to choose my own fictional works and find that particular one unneccessary. i'm a lousy brit, so maybe i am mistaken, but is america a theocracy? does an american have to be a christian, or indeed a particular type of christian?

perhaps you could let them get on with it and allow god to sort them out when the time comes.. and if that particular dogma is proved real.

reply to post by neo96


You have no real arguments against gay marriage so you? You go on about people forcing you to think this, think that, silly little arguments about how these threads are impacting on your life, and you have nothing else. What's going to happen to your rights if DOMA is ruled unconstitutional? Nothing, and you know it. Why you continue to make these silly excuses knowing that this isn't taking away any of your rights is beyond me.

reply to post by SamaraTen


Correct. The US Supreme Court should rule that the federal court system has no business ruling on Prop. 8 in the first place. This matter should be left to the states.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

You have no real arguments against gay marriage so you?

Funny as I saw no real arguments agianst what I said.

You go on about people forcing you to think this, think that, silly little arguments about how these threads are impacting on your life, and you have nothing else.

"You"

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
The funny thing here is, if there was a law saying, oh, i dunno, Christians are not allowed to get married, but all others can, the crying from the thumpers would drown out a sonic boom....

Absolutely not. As a Christian myself I still would argue that the matter isn't federal and would have no Constitutional basis.

I would be free to move to a different state if I chose to.

Originally posted by SamaraTen

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by SamaraTen

 

Have you heard of a man named Ted Haggard?

Seemed like he was making these same religious based claims about homosexuality and how evil it Is for society. Funny huh?

Let me ask you this: if everyone suddenly became "gay"...where would our species be?

Answer: EXTINCT!

Let me take this one please:

Our species would be clothed and Well Dressed,
have manners, a BIG Sense of Humor, and when Wars happened the Wigs would come off of many, while along side of our Theban Warriors, but we would surely stop our self destructive behaviors as most gays are very reflective about abuse in all forms.
Science would most likely excel as would art, and most social phenomenon.
Parties would be fabulous!!
Everyone would be well fed, because we LOVE TO COOK.
We are Everywhere, so I am sure we would advance the species into the direction Humans need to be working towards which is space..... because we want to find those Space Gods and Goddess more than most straight peoples in my humble opinion.
So,, also,, we love children,, and No not pedophilia wise, but as their teachers, mothers, professors and fathers, I promise there would be children.
Some would be straight.
AND WE WOULD LOVE THEM ANYWAY.
The Human race would continue as it always has,, with ups and downs.
So sorry you can only see such negative outcomes to something as basic as who can get married and who can have children.
It could be a better world if you allowed for more in the small one you inhabit.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by SamaraTen

 

Then what gives people the right to marriage and how does it affect the legal agreement between them? You can't extend special privileges to a group of people simply because they are a majority and you can't strip other citizens of rights afforded everyone else because they are in a minority. Marriage is a civil right which the Constitution guarantees everyone of us gay or straight.

Marriage isn't a US Constitutional civil right. Straight either. It's a state issue.

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
OP, if you don't want a gay marriage, don't get one. What other people do is not your business.

History has taught us NOTHING. If it weren't my business, why do they make it so? And please, don't say they're not. They most certainly are.

Seems to be LOTS of Heterophobia running around. Next, they'll be teaching homosexuality in our school system; to kids THEY DID NOT CREATE. So, yeah, it is my business considering my kids have to be a part of this sick, twisted, perverted system.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

'Orwellian control schemes'
'their true aims'

Yes, people often use language as a way to control thought... were you not aware of this?

So you believe gay marriage is some larger social conspiracy against the population?

I'd say that it is at least possible, although I know of no mechanism that this may occur by...

So, as a technical answer to your question.... "No"

So what happens if say Gay marriage becomes a nationwide practice along with heterosexual marriage, what's the next move?

Well, I don't really know, since I don't subscribe to the notion that Gay Marriage is a conspiracy of sorts... lacking a coherent mechanism that would make it so...

However, I have an interesting phrase for you:

Have you ever heard of common law marriages for people who have lived together?

As in, if you live with someone for a specific time period, the state can arbitrarily dictate that you are "Married" if one party makes a claim?

Not saying that this is the case for Gay Marriage... but it is an interesting side thought...

Is this a conspiracy to destroy the family? Give us the down low, this is explosive stuff you've got here about gay marriage.

No, the conspiracy to destroy the family was earlier in the 1900's and it's repercussions can be felt to this day.

I don't think that Gay Marriage has anything to do with "Destroying the family" as I see no mechanism that would accomplish this goal from merely having Gay people Marry each-other.

You evidently view this differently from me.

I view most things differently from most people, actually.

I don't think marriage has a place in the Federal government. It is evidently a religious and cultural ceremony that should not be regulated or dictated by the government in the first place.

I agree.

I think the mere fact marriage has become this ceremony controlled and regulated by the government, restricted, is a demonstration that rights are being restricted.

I agree, with the caveat that Single people do not enjoy the "Rights" that Gay people claim married people have.... and no one says anything about the Rights of the single people being denied...

The mere fact DOMA exists is demonstration of the government trying to influence and force society to practice and celebrate marriage in a specific way when it really should be left up to the individuals. So yes, this is a debate on RIGHTS.

Well, technically speaking, the Government has the Right to decide which contracts that it enters into.

Since under a marriage contract, the state is actually a PARTY to the contract, as opposed to merely the legal arbitrator. (Tax Breaks)

And since as you have already stated.... The Right of Contract.


The purpose of government in cases of contracts, is impartial arbitrator.... as is the purpose of the civil court systems...

However, in regards to Marriage contracts, the Government is not MERELY the arbitrator, but is instead an interested party OF the Marriage contract.

This, I think, is information that is more important than the "Gay Marriage" debate.... as I see certain problems with the government being party to personal relationship contracts.

No, this isn't merely about love, you're quiet right, nobody was debating this.

In this thread? yes, you are probably right...

But you cannot deny that the Gay Marriage movement has used such emotional arguments as "Our right to Love each-other" before.... can you?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by SamaraTen

 

Then what gives people the right to marriage and how does it affect the legal agreement between them? You can't extend special privileges to a group of people simply because they are a majority and you can't strip other citizens of rights afforded everyone else because they are in a minority. Marriage is a civil right which the Constitution guarantees everyone of us gay or straight.

Marriage isn't a US Constitutional civil right. Straight either. It's a state issue.

California already gave it's vote. But, that wasn't good enough.

reply to post by neo96

Originally posted by neo96
Funny as I saw no real arguments agianst what I said.

Which was what again? That legalizing gay marriage strips your rights to freely think and believe what you wish? It doesn't take much to see that this argument of yours makes no sense. This debate is very much about rights, it's about the government regulating, controlling, and dictating what really should be a private institution in the first place.

What's going to happen to your rights again if DOMA is ruled unconstitutional Neo? What's going to happen to your life if it's repealed? Again nothing. If DOMA gets repealed, if it is ruled unconstitutional, you will go on with your life as per usual.