Marriage is NOT a Constitutional Right!

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

Well... not specifically, but one could certainly argue that it is covered by the 9th amendment.

Well, if you really want to get down to the nitty gritty of the argument...

What SPECIFICALLY is a Marriage?

I mean, legally?


IT's a contract between two people and the state to arbitrate property rights.

True... great point.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by neo96

 

The bottom line is using government force to make people accept their lifestyle thing is about that lot of people will never accept it.

This is not about the government forcing anybody to accept any lifestyle, this is an excuse concocted by certain opponents of this law to avoid having to make silly excuses about opposing gay marriage. This is about granting rights to all partnerships, regardless of their sexual orientation. How are two gay people getting married going to impact on your life Neo? You're smart enough to recognize that it won't have an impact, so it really shouldn't be a problem.

...and hey, if you don't accept homosexual relationships, nobody is forcing you to think otherwise.

It's not a "sexual orientation", but rather a sexual PREFERENCE. Learn the difference!

You say it will have no impact and shouldn't be a problem, right? But, have you ever heard the expression: "Give an inch and they'll take a mile"? Soon, heterosexuals will be the ones cast out. I can already see where this is GOING to lead. It's too bad people don't have this much passion about the corrupt system we live in.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

This is not about the government forcing anybody to accept any lifestyle, this is an excuse concocted by certain opponents of this law to avoid having to make silly excuses about opposing gay marriage

People have a right to oppose it if they wish btw all laws are force

This is about granting rights to all partnerships, regardless of their sexual orientation.

Has nothing to do with rights it is about what someone already said benefits(cash)

How are two gay people getting married going to impact on your life Neo?

Creates threads like these is how it impacts my life that makes someone elses bedroom my business where I don't really give a crap about someone else's bedroom.

...and hey, if you don't accept homosexual relationships,

I don't

nobody is forcing you to think otherwise.

Yeah they are they are trying to argue my thinking.

reply to post by SamaraTen


Dear SamarTen,

Marriage as a spiritual union has nothing to do with the government. Government sanctioned marriage is merely a contractual obligation between two people. As a consequence the issue falls under the equal protection clause. The issue is simple, should the government recognize contracts between gays being as valid as contracts between straight people. Now personally I don't believe I need the government to be involved in marriage at all except in regards to the children.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


Imagine that, marriage becomes something like welfare. If you're a manless woman or a womanless man, the government will provide you with a temporary spouse until you find one

But seriously ErtaiNaGia, how do you feel about gay marriage itself, putting aside your views that marriage isn't a right. Do you feel that it will impact on your rights if it does become the norm, if it becomes legal in all states or even your own state?

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by SamaraTen

 

Then what gives people the right to marriage and how does it affect the legal agreement between them? You can't extend special privileges to a group of people simply because they are a majority and you can't strip other citizens of rights afforded everyone else because they are in a minority. Marriage is a civil right which the Constitution guarantees everyone of us gay or straight.

Does that mean that if I want to marry say ....a horse I can do so under your reasoning?

I dont have a dog in this fight, but it seems those who are in favor of gay marriage are blinded to some facts about the world.

Fact, marriage throughout all of human history has existed in every culture I am aware of. In all these instances, it is also, uniformly throughout all of these cultures, and throughout all of recorded history been excessively between 1 man and 1 woman.

Just because folks choose to live an alternative lifestyle, and choose to seek a relationship outside that long established norm, it doesnt entile them to special allotments under the law.

It is the gay community, and supporters of the gay lifestyle that are attempting to change the definition of one of mans oldest, and most respected institutions.

Over 99.999% of the people on this planet at present, and from as far back as there is written record disagree, and should not be forced to recognise the wants of a fringe segment of the populous.

Yes I said fringe, as it is not the norm to be gay, nor is it acceptable to most of the peoples of the world, at present, or throughout history.

I understand why the gay community wants this, and I understand it is a matter of legality, especialky concerning benefits etc..

But it is not the rest of mans responsibility to violate one of mans oldest known customs, just to please a very very very small minority of folks that choose to live outside that same long establishex norm.

I think I should be able to do a lot of things I am not allowed to, my opinion is the minority opinion, so I must accept the wishes of the majority.

Now we are talking about creation here..

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion . . . So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion . . . (Gen. 1:26-28)

I don't see where the big cheese mentions, Be fruitful and become homosexuals so you's can wipe yourselves out and we have to start again.

.” Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Again, where does it say leave your Father & Mother and become a homosexual?

Originally posted by SamaraTen

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by neo96

 

The bottom line is using government force to make people accept their lifestyle thing is about that lot of people will never accept it.

This is not about the government forcing anybody to accept any lifestyle, this is an excuse concocted by certain opponents of this law to avoid having to make silly excuses about opposing gay marriage. This is about granting rights to all partnerships, regardless of their sexual orientation. How are two gay people getting married going to impact on your life Neo? You're smart enough to recognize that it won't have an impact, so it really shouldn't be a problem.

...and hey, if you don't accept homosexual relationships, nobody is forcing you to think otherwise.

It's not a "sexual orientation", but rather a sexual PREFERENCE. Learn the difference!

You say it will have no impact and shouldn't be a problem, right? But, have you ever heard the expression: "Give an inch and they'll take a mile"? Soon, heterosexuals will be the ones cast out. I can already see where this is GOING to lead. It's too bad people don't have this much passion about the corrupt system we live in.

Well here we got your motivation out of ya.

Your afraid that the gays will come after you once they have taken over the world. Just another case of paranoid homophobia.

reply to post by SamaraTen


Like a gay extention cord? All the power tools have to change in order for it to be accepted.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

But seriously ErtaiNaGia, how do you feel about gay marriage itself, putting aside your views that marriage isn't a right.

You are asking the wrong question.

I have already elucidated my view on MARRIAGE as a whole, both heterosexual and homosexual.

I thought I was quite lucid in my explanation.

Do you feel that it will impact on your rights if it does become the norm, if it becomes legal in all states or even your own state?

I don't think you quite get where I am coming from....

I am fighting against NewSpeak.... that Orwellian control scheme of redefining words to mean their exact opposite, in order to control the mind, and the population.

Marriage is not a RIGHT, because you are not born with it....

and when I speak of Marriage, I am not speaking of loving another person who loves you....

Gay and straight people are already doing this, and no-one (in America) is stopping them.

When I speak of marriage, I am not speaking of spending your life with someone else.... Gay people already do this.

When I speak of Marriage, I speak only of the legal contract... and this is precisely the ENTIRETY of the Gay Marriage debate.

Sure, the Gay Marriage proponents will claim that "We have a right to love" but love is not what the legal argument is about, is it?

No one in America is stopping gay people from loving each-other, or having sex, or whatever.... so when they use these emotional arguments, it sets off my semantics detectors that indicate when someone is using language to lie about their true aims.

This is the discussion that I am having in relation to this topic.... if you would like to continue THIS discussion, then by all means... I am all ears...

Just do not throw around concepts that are not technically part of the issue.

Originally posted by Wertdagf

Originally posted by SamaraTen

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by neo96

 

The bottom line is using government force to make people accept their lifestyle thing is about that lot of people will never accept it.

This is not about the government forcing anybody to accept any lifestyle, this is an excuse concocted by certain opponents of this law to avoid having to make silly excuses about opposing gay marriage. This is about granting rights to all partnerships, regardless of their sexual orientation. How are two gay people getting married going to impact on your life Neo? You're smart enough to recognize that it won't have an impact, so it really shouldn't be a problem.

...and hey, if you don't accept homosexual relationships, nobody is forcing you to think otherwise.

It's not a "sexual orientation", but rather a sexual PREFERENCE. Learn the difference!

You say it will have no impact and shouldn't be a problem, right? But, have you ever heard the expression: "Give an inch and they'll take a mile"? Soon, heterosexuals will be the ones cast out. I can already see where this is GOING to lead. It's too bad people don't have this much passion about the corrupt system we live in.

Well here we got your motivation out of ya.

Your afraid that the gays will come after you once they have taken over the world. Just another case of paranoid homophobia.

Chill with the homophobia crap. I went to school in the Village. I lived with someone who is gay. And no, i'm NOT in the closet or "confused". However, if you want to talk, medically...it seems like homosexuals are the ones that are "mentally ill".

If you want to know where i stand...i stand with the poster above who gave Scriptural references. Homosexuality is UNFRUITFUL...no matter how you slice and dice it!

Why is it even a matter of law? Why would anybody care one way or the other? Certainly it's not an issue for the Supreme Court, it's out of their jurisdiction and doesn't violate constitutional rights. Then again, why would it be a state law? Government has no place in it. Marriage doesn't need to be sanctioned by government, does it? Tax laws and other garbage that recognize marriage and give benefits to married people never should have been in place in the first place.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


I can play that game.

Civil Rights as defined by Dictionary.com sounds like this, I quote:

A broad range of privileges and rights guaranteed by the United States Constitution and subsequent amendments and laws that guarantee fundamental freedoms to all individuals. These freedoms include the rights of free expression and action ( civil liberties); the right to enter into contracts, own property, and initiate lawsuits; the rights of due process and equal protection of the laws; opportunities in education and work; the freedom to live, travel, and use public facilities wherever one chooses; and the right to participate in the democratic political system.

So, specifically we are speaking to the right to ENTER INTO CONTRACTS, as Marriage is a contract in the eyes of the law.

Is that your definition?
Right would thus mean something along the lines of a just claim or title, whether legal, prescriptive, or moral: Example:You have a right to say what you please. again Dictionary.com offers such good definitions you should try it.

Originally posted by SamaraTen
I love the way all the haters and people that think i have some kind of 'agenda' behind this thread, come out and start bashing. Give it up. We don't have to 'accept' it; like the gay community believes we should. Actually, i'm getting offended because it seems like if we don't "accept" the gay community, we're suddenly homophobic. I feel like MY CIVIL RIGHTS are being violated, more than those that are gay. Funny how the tides are turning. Accept it, or else! Is that the policy???

BTW...has anyone of you ever been through the civil rights movement? Or, are you all just a bunch of YOUNGSTERS kicking and screaming to have your way? Do you REALLY know what it's like to be DISCRIMINATED against??? Probably NOT!

How does gay marriage violate your civil rights? It doesn't.

It's not "accept it or else."

You don't have to like it, like them, or accept it or them, but you don't have the right to prevent others from having the same constitutional right of equality granted to others just because you don't like it or are offended by it.

How does gay marriage threaten "traditional" marriage if only because those people against it feel personally threatened due to their own insecurities?

Interesting you should mention the civil rights movement, because this is essentially the same: equal rights under the law. When rights are not equal under the law that is discrimination, plain and simple, and the black community fought to gain equal rights—under the law—rights that were then afforded to whites and not blacks.

reply to post by SamaraTen


Of course it is. Look how cute the guy is on the OP's picture. LOL. Civil rights are very plain and clear. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. How does than not apply to everyone?

reply to post by neo96

Originally posted by neo96
People have a right to oppose it if they wish btw all laws are force

So I suppose the 2nd amendment to arms forces people to buy guns right? Or is it just a right granted to people by the constitution? The truth is, gay marriage is not going to impact on your life. You just don't like the idea of giving gays that right nonetheless, and you hide behind the excuse that this law is trying to force you to think otherwise in order to oppose that right.

Has nothing to do with rights

Yes it does, unless I'm lead to believe that there isn't a Federal position in opposition to the rights of homosexual couples to marry?

Creates threads like these is how it impacts my life

Nobody is forcing you to read these threads, nobody is forcing you to respond, nobody is forcing you to post "positive things" about gay marriage. If you don't like threads about these things, don't participate, simple. There are plenty of other threads, websites, than to be posting responses on this thread.

I don't

.....and it's not going to change with gay marriage, so keep up the hate for as long as you want.

Yeah they are they are trying to argue my thinking.

Again, nobody is forcing you to think otherwise. The fact you're voluntarily posting in this thread, making it clear that you don't support the lifestyles of gays, lesbians, gay marriage, is pretty clear evidence of this.

reply to post by SamaraTen


Have you heard of a man named Ted Haggard?

Seemed like he was making these same religious based claims about homosexuality and how evil it Is for society. Funny huh?

I think OP forgot about "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" if it makes you happy and doesn't harm anyone else you should be able to do it, whether you're talking about marriage or anything else. By not allowing a group of people to get married you're denying them of their right to be happy.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
Now we are talking about creation here..

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion . . . So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion . . . (Gen. 1:26-28)

I don't see where the big cheese mentions, Be fruitful and become homosexuals so you's can wipe yourselves out and we have to start again.

.” Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Again, where does it say leave your Father & Mother and become a homosexual?

Perhaps they've never read the story about Sodom and Gomorrah. They have only heard about it through someone else. If we 'give in and accept it'...we might as well be in the bedroom with them. Sorry, but i'm going with God on this one. He says it's wrong......I SAY IT'S WRONG! But at the end of the day...it's their CHOICE. God respects their choices, but there WILL BE consequences. It WILL BE the final nail in the world's coffin.

reply to post by EarthCitizen23

I can play that game.

IT's not a game, it is the core of the "Gay Marriage" discussion and rhetoric.

Civil Rights as defined by Dictionary.com sounds like this, I quote:

A broad range of privileges and rights guaranteed by the United States Constitution and subsequent amendments and laws that guarantee fundamental freedoms to all individuals. These freedoms include the rights of free expression and action ( civil liberties); the right to enter into contracts, own property, and initiate lawsuits; the rights of due process and equal protection of the laws; opportunities in education and work; the freedom to live, travel, and use public facilities wherever one chooses; and the right to participate in the democratic political system.

Sounds about right.

Is that your definition?

The definition is suitable, and acceptable.

So, specifically we are speaking to the right to ENTER INTO CONTRACTS, as Marriage is a contract in the eyes of the law.

Yes... it is... and what are the terms of this contract?

What are the goods or services being exchanged in this contract?