Ancient Maps That Shouldn't Exist

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posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:34 PM
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Well written thread!


Mind = blown!

Star and flag. These kinds of threads are why I love ATS. Nice break from the political headbeating threads.


-SAP-
edit on 27-3-2013 by SloAnPainful because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:36 PM
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Why is that everyone is focusing on Antarctica itself in the ancient /medieval maps? why not focus on other landmasses which were a mystery at one or the other times?

For those who would like to know more on Cartography in the Ancient and Medieval times on Antarctica, please refer

Early Antarctica By R. V. Tooley

Some Notes on Early Antarctica




EARLY ANTARCTICA
A glance at the beginnings of cartographic representation for the South Polar Regions
By R. V. Tooley
The Map Collectors' Circle
Durrant House, Chiswell Street, London, E.C. 1.
Copyright 1963 by The Map Collectors' Circle





Early Antarctica appeared as the second publication of the 'Map Collectors' Circle,' which was founded by Tooley in 1963. Before discontinuing publication in 1975, the Circle issued 110 monographs. Early Antarctica later was included, unchanged, as an Addendum to Tooley's The Mapping of Australia and Antarctica, second revised edition (London: Holland Press, 1985).


This book, thoroughly studies every map, its editions, changes in each edition, bit by bit.
A good reference book.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:37 PM
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If only the great library at Alexandria has not been destroyed.

Agree with the posts that the ancient societies were more advanced than we give them credit for.

Heroditus wrote in 800BC (approx.) that the "phoenicians sailed so far south that the sun rose from the opposite direction..." - not realising that this meant they had actually crossed the equator,



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by templar knight
 


When you read Herodotus, take everything he says with a pinch of salt.
Herodotus based most of his "Histories" on "hear say".
Most of the matter in his books were collected as anecdotes from acquaintances and travelers. Even his notes on Ancient Egypt is what he gathered from his guides who took him around Egypt.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Thanks for posting this info
but may i just suggest for those further interested, it wouldnt harm you to purchase a copy of 'Fingerprints Of The Gods' written by Graham Hancock.
He discusses these exact maps and how Piri, Mercator etc said themselves they had used multiple 'Ancient' sources to putt these maps together.




posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:08 PM
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Excellent thread! Ever since reading "Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings" I have had a huge interest in this topic. Even 'ol Chris Columbus noted that some of his maps were based on ancient maps, hence his determination to sail west. He knew of other lands. I think the most interesting map is the one depicting Antarctica completely iceless as two islands. Good job!



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Blue Shift
There is certainly some indication that some sea captains used maps that were derived from various older, "secret" or lost sources, you also have to give them credit sometimes for just being lucky and guessing at the shapes of various undiscovered land sources because of the way currents ran. For instance, even if you didn't know North America was ahead of you, you might guess there was something in the way that was turning the ocean current from East-West to South-North.

Others might just be pure lucky guesses. You gotta fill an area of a map with something!


The usual filler was: "Here be monsters!" or just leave the map blank. Why make up an imaginary coastline?



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by Telos
reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Graham Hancock must feel very happy and thankful to ATS for sharing entire chapters of is Fingerprints of the Gods book


Didn't get it from Fingerprints of the Gods, although someone did recommend that book lately and I just started reading it.

It is interesting, though, that he had a lot of the same info.

There's another book that is also interesting, called Earth's Forbidden Secrets. Its what inspired this thread, actually. You can find it online in pdf form for free if you're interested.


I see no mention of these as your sources in your OP, which having glanced at the latter at least, they certainly are, as someone with an academic background, I am sure you can understand that presenting the ideas of others as your own is somewhat dishonest, some may even call it plagiarism since you have done nothing more than reword those writer's conclusions about the maps. There is certainly no evidence of you having done any further research of your own to clarify those conclusions in any way.

In terms of Australia and Antartica, and maps in general. They are western maps. The west knew these places existed, attempted to define them, and sought them out because the 'locals' told them about them. Same with any 'new world', it was only 'new' to the west. If you read the texts that accompany most of the maps of that period, they detail as much, that the visual is representative of stories told them by 'natives'.

And, the matter of Longitude. In 1761 it became possible to determine longitude accurately when at sea. In the open ocean. That is all. That is why the board was convened. Determining Longitude on land is relatively straightforward and for any given point on a map, what represented a problem was determining the exact position of the vessel whilst on the vessel in the open sea. So while no one is entirely sure how Mercator determined longitude for his maps, as in what equation or the tools he used to take the necessary measurements, he was by no means unique in his ability to do so and as his own body of work demonstrates, he was always amending those calculations based on new information. And by the 1700s, the need for a device to correctly establish the longitudinal position of a vessel at sea was so they could find out where they were based on the maps marked with latitude and longitude.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:57 PM
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first time poster.. but have looked in here from time to time...

I've read some Hapgood and Hancock over the years and found their ideas interesting.

I recently stumbled across a well written book describing a Chinese fleet that supposedly sailed around the world. It was written by a former British Submarine commander(?) & I was surprised that such dry content ended up being so easy to read. I thought it was a plausible theory that may explain some of the maps that had otherwise been a mystery. The perspective of someone who had sailed many of the routes and could describe the views you would see when entering certain ports, or how certain island groups may be mistaken for a single island added some authority to his theories.

I'd really only grabbed the book while looking for something relating to Chinese history when I was flying back & forth to China for work, but was glad I did.

Book is here:
www.amazon.com...



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by BleepySmurf
 


A very excellent book. I too found it very absorbing


You may also find, as a companion to '1421', Athanasius Kircher's works fascinating as to how information was carried back to him by Jesuit missionaries in the East and how he attempted to rationalise that 'data' into maps and drawings. He also provides a good demonstration on how censorship worked at that time, anything that conflicted with the Church, or the State, was kept from wider circulation. This made his job all the more harder.
edit on 27-3-2013 by KilgoreTrout because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by PLAYERONE01
As Eratosthenes discovered (or rediscovered) the Earth was in fact spherical in or around 240 BC. It appears, especially from the appearance of 1538 Mercator map's design as it also appears to be drawn to give the viewer an idea the world is indeed spherical in nature.
Now unless this priceless information was lost or with held this would explain how we all ended up with a ridiculous story told to us at school how our ancestors believed they would sail off the edge of the world.

scienceblogs.com...

en.wikipedia.org...


Perhaps there was some Reason that the different civilizations were separated (Tower of Babel story?) and people were told the Earth was flat and they would fall off the edge to prevent them from finding each other too soon(?). I have always believed Mankind was at a much advanced level and civilization was "reset" back to the stone age (by war, calamity, act of God, whatever) Even the Bible alludes to this "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." in Ecclesiastes.
edit on 27-3-2013 by DataDoc because: error in process - had to edit



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by BleepySmurf
 


Along those lines, here's a recent ATS thread about possible medieval contact between Chinese and Africans, based on a Chinese coin excavated on an island off the coast of Kenya.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 05:33 PM
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I see no mention of these as your sources in your OP, which having glanced at the latter at least, they certainly are, as someone with an academic background, I am sure you can understand that presenting the ideas of others as your own is somewhat dishonest, some may even call it plagiarism since you have done nothing more than reword those writer's conclusions about the maps. There is certainly no evidence of you having done any further research of your own to clarify those conclusions in any way.
reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 



Did not start reading Fingerprints of the Gods until last night, after this thread when someone recommended it.

But you are right, I didn't cite Earth's Forbidden Secrets. I thought I had, just checked my OP and it wasn't there. I'm contacting the mods to let them know.


As far as me doing my own research, I did check other sources. The book sent me looking, if you will. And the sources I checked in google all had pretty much the same conclusions and statements. Which one could argue moves the information into the realm of "public knowledge," but that's debatable since the topic is rather obscure.

I do not plagiarize the work of others, at least not intentionally. It truly bothers me that some might think this, although after noting the similarities between Fingerprints and my failure to cite EFS I can see how easy it would be to form that opinion.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention....I truly mean that.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Excellent thread. Presented perfectly. Thanks!



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
Finally, a thread on ATS worthy of a star and flag.

Things like this have always puzzled me as well. My own personal take on it is there once was an advanced global civilization in antiquity that was destroyed by cataclysms that was just as advanced or even more so than modern day humans are. I think that there has been an ongoing conspiracy to suppress this knowledge about our past because this pattern of rise and fall has been repeated many times in the past and is about to happen again soon and "they" don't want people to know about it.

But that's just my two cents. Anyways, well put together thread as always smylee.


Finally, a reply on ATS worthy of a star and flag.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I can only add the (very general) math. Earth estimated to be~5 billion years old. Complete evolution of the current human species estimated to have taken ~4.5 million years. Number of times a civilization similar to ours could have evolved and been completely wiped out on our planet = ~1000. Given the overwhelming evidence that exists to support this theory, including the excellent content provided here, I'd say the odds that it has happened once or twice before are pretty good. Just my opinion of course.

Thanks OP.
edit on 27-3-2013 by buskey because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 



I can appreciate that the omission was unintentional and merely oversight.


Originally posted by smyleegrl
As far as me doing my own research, I did check other sources. The book sent me looking, if you will. And the sources I checked in google all had pretty much the same conclusions and statements. Which one could argue moves the information into the realm of "public knowledge," but that's debatable since the topic is rather obscure.


If all you do is type in the name given to the map by the writer of 'Forbidden Secrets' then all you are going to get is facsimilies of the conclusions that he made. You have to work a little bit harder than that with the internet and check out the details of the information that he presents, rather than just take it as face value. What was it that Goebbels said, repeat a lie often enough and it becomes truth. That is the internet without people checking facts.

Take the Orontius Finaeus Map. You talk about Antartica and yet illustrate your point with a detail from the map of how Australia was projected to look. And, they did a stonking job...whereas Antartica as detailed in the map as little more than a linear coastline at the foot of that map. Australia had not been seen at that time, only described, Antartica and the surrounding islands on the other hand had been, to a limited extent, witnessed by a number of vessels that had been blown off course. It took me all of two minutes to find that out by searching the 'discovery of Antartica' and cross referencing that with 'Orontius Finaeus'. 'Earth's Forbidden Secrets' is based on erroneous conclusions based on either design or ignorance and there are all too many sites that merely parrot those conclusions.

Same with the Longitude thing. Stupidity endlessly reproduced, when all it takes is a little bit of critical thinking and five minutes reading about the development of cartography perhaps.

So, what I meant about researching was actually questioning the details of the information as presented to form your own conclusion, not simply relying on the sanctity of those conclusions because they are repeated in other places.

It is the difference between denying ignorance and reinforcing it.

edit on 27-3-2013 by KilgoreTrout because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 06:15 PM
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If all you do is type in the name given to the map by the writer of 'Forbidden Secrets' then all you are going to get is facsimilies of the conclusions that he made. You have to work a little bit harder than that with the internet and check out the details of the information that he presents, rather than just take it as face value. What was it that Goebbels said, repeat a lie often enough and it becomes truth. That is the internet without people checking facts.
reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


A valuable lesson. Again, I appreciate it. Truly.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 





I see no mention of these as your sources in your OP, which having glanced at the latter at least, they certainly are, as someone with an academic background, I am sure you can understand that presenting the ideas of others as your own is somewhat dishonest, some may even call it plagiarism since you have done nothing more than reword those writer's conclusions about the maps. There is certainly no evidence of you having done any further research of your own to clarify those conclusions in any way.


A tad jelous are we that smyleegrl got loads of flags? Wherever this came from its nice to see these sort of threads on ats rather than the junk that passes through here.. 516 flags! Kinda shows others here agree..
edit on 27-3-2013 by misscurious because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 07:36 PM
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Wow very interesting! And on a side note I don't think I have yet to see a post with this many flags!

Gs



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 07:46 PM
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WOW - how can anyone say " Where are your sources?"

The truth is .......THEY ARE ALL DEAD!! The sources are gone, and their fathers and their fathers and so on. So, how can anyone say with any certainty, that man currently is the most knowledgeable and advanced at this moment in time?

There are saw marks in stones weighing more then the average cluster of cranes can lift. Its not speculation, there is a stone, its huge, it has a calculated weight of 100 tons and there are saw marks that anyone can slip their fingers into.

If there is physical evidence of machining on huge stones assembled by "Your guess is as good as anyone's" then why is is so hard to believe that some human in an age before our recorded history, made an accurate map using advanced technology?

The more physical evidence I see, the more the matrix makes sense. This dock may have been destroyed many times over and thousands of years later the survivors are clueless. I for one LOVE the hidden past as it means there is something more for me to think about then work, taxes and how crappy so many things have become.

Can I get a witness ?

Some images/ videos for thought . . . .
























edit on 27-3-2013 by oldmeatwad because: (no reason given)
edit on 27-3-2013 by oldmeatwad because: (no reason given)
edit on 27-3-2013 by oldmeatwad because: bolded text





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