Plasma actuators on aircraft

Originally posted by mbkennel

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
It shows how disinfo works... how people can be fooled and not see the whole picture. The exact same thing is being done right now with electrogravitics and these actuators are the tip of that iceberg.

What evidence do you have that there is anything behind "electrogravitics"? From what I've seen (the nonsense from LaViollette) it's the opposite.

What evidence is there that plasma actuators are related?

I suspect it's the usual in this case.

Long ago there was a physicist with a delusion named T. Townsend Brown. Brown had the wild, thoroughly unsupportable concept that only the negative plate of a capacitor experienced force from an electric charge. Thus, it ought to be easy to create a reactionless thruster out of a capacitor, if you somehow properly designed it. There's a bit more to it than that, apparently the shape and size of the plates is also important to developing your putative reactionless thrust from a capacitor, but that's basically it.

The fact you could quite easily demonstrate the untruth of this with Rutherford-esque sealing wax and foil experiments went by the wayside. This seems pretty odd to me as Brown had reasonably good credentials, it's sort of like that guy a few years back that tried to suddenly claim that gyroscopes could do the same, I remember seeing the video, he was a relatively well known physicist who isn't published anymore.


Brown, as so many hoaxsters in history, claimed to have built fabulous flying devices, but when challenged to demonstrate them, responded with a bone-stock TDAMH.

"Oh, the eeeeevil ones broke into my lab, stole all my magic plans and my flying cars, and I can't build any more, the dog ate my homework"

In the time since, Brown has attracted hordes of believers who skipped out on high school sciences. This has led to the somewhat manic embrace of "lifters" which were featured upthread, IIRC. Also, when someone at NG leaked that drawing of the wing charging system, it was immediately seized upon by hordes of Browniacs, some here on ATS, who didn't understand about plasma's effects on boundary flow. Or that it had uses in stealth. So they became convinced that the B-2 had a magical, mystical "Brown thruster".

It lingers to this day in claims such as KeyMaster's, who is apparently still convinced it is related in some way.

Good thing he hasn't heard of Dean yet, I suppose.

reply to post by Bedlam


Hey bedlam, is this similar to the document that was leaked by Northrop Grumman?
I realize the text below it is incorrect but would that be how they would achieve plasma stealth on the B-2?

reply to post by Stealthbomber


Not that similar, I saw someone posted an internal doc with a nice but simplified drawing of it that was genuine. I posted in the thread, can't search for it on this phone without having an aneurism.

reply to post by Bedlam


Thanks for that, ill try and have a look for it. Do you think that the B-1b also uses some sort of plasma stealth aswell, I've heard they stopped using F-16 escorts for the B-1 during red flag and I suspect that must mean that the F-16's were giving away the B-1's position but the B-1 isn't exactly designed to be a stealth aircraft.

reply to post by Stealthbomber


Although not stealthy per say, the B-1 does have a lower RCS than other aircraft. And I think the F-16's don't accompany it any more because 1. They can't keep up (lol) and 2. the F-16 doesn't have the range (don't quote me on these, just my thoughts).

But if the B-2 had that type of system onboard that gave it unlimited range, then why do we still refuel them multiple times when they take off from Whiteman, bomb Afghanistan, and land back at Whiteman?

reply to post by boomer135


Thanks Boomer,

I didn't think the unlimited range part was true, as I don't believe the system by Townsend Brown would work I was just seeing if that would be the way they would achieve plasma stealth. I have heard rumors although I don't know how credible that say that the B-1 uses something similar to get a smaller RCS.

Originally posted by boomer135
reply to post by Stealthbomber

 

But if the B-2 had that type of system onboard that gave it unlimited range, then why do we still refuel them multiple times when they take off from Whiteman, bomb Afghanistan, and land back at Whiteman?

Because it would be a little obvious if they didn't?

I mean come on.. give the military a tiny bit more credit than that.... Since all this info has come out about them they might have even abandoned the use of this tech in them. Them keeping this tech secret is probably far more important to them than any threat out there right now....

Originally posted by Bedlam

"Oh, the eeeeevil ones broke into my lab, stole all my magic plans and my flying cars, and I can't build any more, the dog ate my homework"

In the time since, Brown has attracted hordes of believers who skipped out on high school sciences. This has led to the somewhat manic embrace of "lifters" which were featured upthread, IIRC. Also, when someone at NG leaked that drawing of the wing charging system, it was immediately seized upon by hordes of Browniacs, some here on ATS, who didn't understand about plasma's effects on boundary flow. Or that it had uses in stealth. So they became convinced that the B-2 had a magical, mystical "Brown thruster".

It lingers to this day in claims such as KeyMaster's, who is apparently still convinced it is related in some way.

Good thing he hasn't heard of Dean yet, I suppose.

edit on 30-3-2013 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-3-2013 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

TTBrown was dead on right... the way you talk about him and shoot down his work entirely it just adds more and more fuel to my curiosity regarding your agenda here....

I strongly urge anyone and everyone to read Paul LaViolette's book - Secrets of Antigravity Propulsion as well as Nick Cook's book The Hunt for Zero Point. Everything you need to know is there...

Why is there so much unwarranted skepticism regarding the possibility of revolutionary tech made by humans yet EVERYWHERE on the internet including here people are entranced with aliens? Is it human nature or an immense campaign?

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

Originally posted by boomer135
reply to post by Stealthbomber

 

But if the B-2 had that type of system onboard that gave it unlimited range, then why do we still refuel them multiple times when they take off from Whiteman, bomb Afghanistan, and land back at Whiteman?

Because it would be a little obvious if they didn't?

I mean come on.. give the military a tiny bit more credit than that.... Since all this info has come out about them they might have even abandoned the use of this tech in them. Them keeping this tech secret is probably far more important to them than any threat out there right now....

Or perhaps the plasma actuators and technology still obey the laws of physics and give lower fuel consumption but not zero fuel consumption.

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

Originally posted by Bedlam

"Oh, the eeeeevil ones broke into my lab, stole all my magic plans and my flying cars, and I can't build any more, the dog ate my homework"

In the time since, Brown has attracted hordes of believers who skipped out on high school sciences. This has led to the somewhat manic embrace of "lifters" which were featured upthread, IIRC. Also, when someone at NG leaked that drawing of the wing charging system, it was immediately seized upon by hordes of Browniacs, some here on ATS, who didn't understand about plasma's effects on boundary flow. Or that it had uses in stealth. So they became convinced that the B-2 had a magical, mystical "Brown thruster".

It lingers to this day in claims such as KeyMaster's, who is apparently still convinced it is related in some way.

Good thing he hasn't heard of Dean yet, I suppose.

edit on 30-3-2013 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-3-2013 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

TTBrown was dead on right... the way you talk about him and shoot down his work entirely it just adds more and more fuel to my curiosity regarding your agenda here....

I strongly urge anyone and everyone to read Paul LaViolette's book - Secrets of Antigravity Propulsion as well as Nick Cook's book The Hunt for Zero Point. Everything you need to know is there...

Everything except physics.

Why is there so much unwarranted skepticism regarding the possibility of revolutionary tech made by humans yet EVERYWHERE on the internet including here people are entranced with aliens? Is it human nature or an immense campaign?

It's because people who know how physics actually works recognize nonsense.

reply to post by Stealthbomber



Note what Aviation Week said, and what other people incorrectly interpolated onto it.

Aviation week: charge wing leading edge, charge exhaust oppositely, reduce radar RCS.
This is probably correct.

As Bedlam intimated this would be a fairly crude version being a single large charge separation (possibly even DC vs AC?) presumably creating some discharge plasma but without fine control. There would be fluid mechanical instabilities and the plasma couldn't be maintained evenly over the wing at all times, leading to severe "turbulence" to the crew when it is turned on in some weather conditions.

The new generation is many far smaller AC dielectric barrier generators which are installed in many places over the wing with many charge separations, offering the potential for individual control, witnessed by the SBIR contracts for control system simulations. Modern sensors & modeling & computers can do this, with lots of work.

Mumbo jumbo, not claimed by Aviation Week: TT Brown.

Originally posted by mbkennel


It lingers to this day in claims such as KeyMaster's, who is apparently still convinced it is related in some way.

Why don't you read the books and see for yourself? Or are you afraid your assumptions will be proven wrong?

Everything except physics.

No one understands the physics... so what is your point?

It's because people who know how physics actually works recognize nonsense.

You mean the people who had to invent dark matter to explain away everything they got wrong with physics? Those people?

Originally posted by mbkennel
Or perhaps the plasma actuators and technology still obey the laws of physics and give lower fuel consumption but not zero fuel consumption.

Some people need to take baby steps on the path of enlightenment... I guess I can't blame you.. I probably would be as skeptical as you if I didn't know someone who actually saw one flying.

Have you heard of Boyd Bushman? Check him out... he knows the truth too.

www.youtube.com...

Or watch this and remove the alien disinfo...

www.youtube.com...

Watch this after reading those books I mentioned.. Watch it very very very carefully....

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

Originally posted by boomer135
reply to post by Stealthbomber

 

But if the B-2 had that type of system onboard that gave it unlimited range, then why do we still refuel them multiple times when they take off from Whiteman, bomb Afghanistan, and land back at Whiteman?

Because it would be a little obvious if they didn't?

I mean come on.. give the military a tiny bit more credit than that.... Since all this info has come out about them they might have even abandoned the use of this tech in them. Them keeping this tech secret is probably far more important to them than any threat out there right now....

So they spent millions retrofitting this miracle capability into an aircraft fleet consuming 50 billion dollars, but they just stopped using it? So people wouldn't learn about it? Wouldn't it make more sense to have had this miracle capability implemented in a purpose-built craft that noone knows about then?

Well I've refueled dozens of b-2s in my career and I've never noticed anything like that on them. I'm not saying they don't have it, just where does the millions of pounds of fuel go on a 36 hour flight?

reply to post by Stealthbomber


This picture appears to be a scan from a book, but since the context from the surrounding pages is gone it tells us very little.

It just uses a whole lot of buzz-words like "capacitor", "electrically charges", "gravity wave" to explain away what amounts to magic. How does charging the exhaust reduce the IR signature? Not explained. How do you charge the leading edge and exhaust? Oh, that's not explained either. How does charging the leading edge and exhaust lead produce a "gravity wave"? Not explained. What is a "flame jet generator"? Not explained. Unfortunately without context, this picture is meaningless. Where is the scan from? Also it's highly probable that it's fake, since faking something like that would be extremely easy.

Using some rabble and squabble and buzzwords is very typical of pseudoscience.

reply to post by C0bzz


Thanks cobbz,

As I said earlier I didn't believe what the text around it was saying about the unlimited range although i do think the plasma system would give it longer range than usual due to better aerodynamics. What I was mainly asking if by charging the leading edges and negatively charging the exhaust would be a fairly accurate way of achieving plasma stealth. I'm pretty sure that to reduce the radar cross section of the SR-71 they were planning to use positively charged ions into the exhaust gas but I'm not sure what became of that.

Originally posted by _Del_

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

Originally posted by boomer135
reply to post by Stealthbomber

 

But if the B-2 had that type of system onboard that gave it unlimited range, then why do we still refuel them multiple times when they take off from Whiteman, bomb Afghanistan, and land back at Whiteman?

Because it would be a little obvious if they didn't?

I mean come on.. give the military a tiny bit more credit than that.... Since all this info has come out about them they might have even abandoned the use of this tech in them. Them keeping this tech secret is probably far more important to them than any threat out there right now....

So they spent millions retrofitting this miracle capability into an aircraft fleet consuming 50 billion dollars, but they just stopped using it? So people wouldn't learn about it? Wouldn't it make more sense to have had this miracle capability implemented in a purpose-built craft that noone knows about then?

It's worth far far far more money to keep this tech secret.... our entire society relies on us keeping this tech secret. At least in terms of the powers that be. They probably only used it because they figured no one could figure out what it was doing. They hadn't calculated LaViolette would figure it out...

And again.. billions of dollars is nothing compared to the aviation industries keeping their sacred cow alive... do you realize what this info would do to their businesses if it went public? That's why it has been kept secret since the 50s.

In Nick Cook's book - The Hunt for Zero Point - non fiction - he shows how people in the aviation community were hyping antigravity research in the 50s and then the entire topic dropped completely off the radar not long after. Why? Because they likely realize how any country in the world could replicate the tech they had discovered... this would lose their technological edge as well as the US governments.

So again... billions is truly NOTHING to them...

reply to post by TheKeyMaster


I think Nick may have actually stumbled across the B-2 using the plasma stealth systems as he would have had a lot of contacts in the aviation field and then elaborated on that. He may of only heard part of the system and then just added in bits where he saw fit..

Originally posted by C0bzz
reply to post by Stealthbomber

 

This picture appears to be a scan from a book, but since the context from the surrounding pages is gone it tells us very little.

Well, it's similar to a real document, but with added horse# for Browniacs.

It just uses a whole lot of buzz-words like "capacitor", "electrically charges", "gravity wave" to explain away what amounts to magic.

Typical Browniac buzzwordism. It's a bit like being at a Juggalo festival. You have to expect Faygo.

How does charging the exhaust reduce the IR signature? Not explained.

It does nice things for rear RCS. I've heard that injecting things like UDMH and cesium oxide into the exhaust can cause erratic little bursts of IR emission from the exhaust plume, which sometimes causes loss of IR lock on the plane. Maybe this all got mixed together and came out misattributed.

How do you charge the leading edge and exhaust? Oh, that's not explained either.

A bloody big generator. That's actually the trick here.

How does charging the leading edge and exhaust lead produce a "gravity wave"? Not explained. What is a "flame jet generator"? Not explained. Unfortunately without context, this picture is meaningless. Where is the scan from? Also it's highly probable that it's fake, since faking something like that would be extremely easy.

Well, none of that part is true. However, from the Browniac web sites, it looks like they're talking about using the engines as MHD generators, which actually might not be a bad idea if you could tote around a big superconducting magnet. to pull it off.