Plasma actuators on aircraft

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

I would suspect anyone that tries to tell you electrogravitics aren't real.

I would suspect anyone who tries to tell you they ARE real. Tell me, has LaViolette ever been able to produce any experimental, reproducible evidence of his 'antigravity' theories? No? Hmm...

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
reply to post by Bedlam

 

You got all that from "looking" at it?

Why are you pretending as if all the stuff you are saying is a fact and that is all there is to it?

Well, I got a real good look at it.

It is a fact. "All there is to it" encompasses a whole new field of aeronautics and EE, it's a bit like watching a Saturn V go up and say 'that's all there is to it - it's a big firework', or looking at the ocean and saying 'that's all there is to it - it's wet'

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

I would suspect anyone that tries to tell you electrogravitics aren't real.

I would suspect anyone who tries to tell you they ARE real. Tell me, has LaViolette ever been able to produce any experimental, reproducible evidence of his 'antigravity' theories? No? Hmm...

And what if he said he had... and others said they had seen it.. would you believe it then? Would anyone? Of course not...

We have seen lifters and people still refuse to believe it.. things like this can't be proven unless you actually produce a full fledged flying craft and even then people would still refuse to believe it.

These groups are probably actively suppressing him from doing just that as well... he would probably be dead if he wasn't so high profile.

I heard La violette on the Veritas radio program and his call was interrupted like 50 times during his interview. Did you hear what they did to Jim Garrison when he was investigating the JFK assassination?

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
reply to post by Bedlam

 

You got all that from "looking" at it?

Why are you pretending as if all the stuff you are saying is a fact and that is all there is to it?

Well, I got a real good look at it.

It is a fact. "All there is to it" encompasses a whole new field of aeronautics and EE, it's a bit like watching a Saturn V go up and say 'that's all there is to it - it's a big firework', or looking at the ocean and saying 'that's all there is to it - it's wet'

edit on 26-3-2013 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

It sounds as if you are trying to "poo poo" this technology and it's discovery to me in a very subtle way.... either that or you are just someone who likes to think they know it all.

I am not trying to insult you... it's just necessary to know what your motives are.

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

I would suspect anyone that tries to tell you electrogravitics aren't real.

I would suspect anyone who tries to tell you they ARE real. Tell me, has LaViolette ever been able to produce any experimental, reproducible evidence of his 'antigravity' theories? No? Hmm...

And what if he said he had... and others said they had seen it.. would you believe it then? Would anyone? Of course not...

This is what we call 'anecdotal evidence'. All he's got to do is publish, and give the data needed to replicate the experiment. This is what we call 'science'. If other people get the same result, then 'anecdotal' becomes 'veridical'. I can say I've seen purple monkeys come out of the TV. I can get other people to say the same. However, if I publish the details and physics of how that works, and how I could replicate purple monkey emission, then if others can also replicate it, we're on the way to establishing the fact of purple monkey emission phenomena.

If I say 'oh, I had the magic one-off non-reproducible anti gravity device, but MIBs broke in and stole it just before the big demo', then we have a The Dog Ate My Homework event, TDAMH for short, which is the hallmark of free energy and antigravity scamsters the world over.

We have seen lifters and people still refuse to believe it.. things like this can't be proven unless you actually produce a full fledged flying craft and even then people would still refuse to believe it.

Ion wind is old stuff. And as I said, very inefficient, very poor, very low thrust, doesn't work in vacuum so not good for spacecraft as is. In space, you'd have to rig for particle acceleration and then you'd call it an ion engine. But the thrust is still very small. Why would you want one? You might as well whine about the suppression of rubber band technology.

These groups are probably actively suppressing him from doing just that as well... he would probably be dead if he wasn't so high profile.

Or he's a huckster.

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

It sounds as if you are trying to "poo poo" this technology and it's discovery to me in a very subtle way.... either that or you are just someone who likes to think they know it all.

I am not trying to insult you... it's just necessary to know what your motives are.

It depends on which technology you're talking about. If you're on about electrogravitics, then yep, it's full poo poo all the way.

This thread, however, is about how plasma affects aircraft, and it's a great field, big thing in the future, wonderful tech, wish I could tell you all about it.

Originally posted by Bedlam

This is what we call 'anecdotal evidence'. All he's got to do is publish, and give the data needed to replicate the experiment.

That all costs BIG BUCKS... and even then the journals likely wouldn't accept it. Look at Randell Mills of Blacklight power. Look at what happened to cold fusion when it was discovered. A journalist at MIT said they deliberately suppressed experimental data showing there was something to it then the journalist from MIT was murdered when tryign to bring this info public.

This is what we call 'science'.

Actually it's called big business.

If I say 'oh, I had the magic one-off non-reproducible anti gravity device, but MIBs broke in and stole it just before the big demo', then we have a The Dog Ate My Homework event, TDAMH for short, which is the hallmark of free energy and antigravity scamsters the world over.

Have you ever considered things like cold fusion and electrogravitics have been kept secret so long specifically because they are so difficult to "prove"?

Ion wind is old stuff. And as I said, very inefficient, very poor, very low thrust, doesn't work in vacuum so not good for spacecraft as is. In space, you'd have to rig for particle acceleration and then you'd call it an ion engine. But the thrust is still very small. Why would you want one? You might as well whine about the suppression of rubber band technology.

How can we know this when no one can get money to test it fully? Just because it can't be proven by guys tinkering in their garages doesn't mean it isn't possible. In fact from the info I have seen I am certain it is possible.

Or he's a huckster.

I know he's not.. and I suggest people here not listen to people like yourself on this and explore this information. The government has everything riding on keeping this secret.. if you don't think they could keep people from figuring it out you are terribly mistaken.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

It sounds as if you are trying to "poo poo" this technology and it's discovery to me in a very subtle way.... either that or you are just someone who likes to think they know it all.

I am not trying to insult you... it's just necessary to know what your motives are.

It depends on which technology you're talking about. If you're on about electrogravitics, then yep, it's full poo poo all the way.

This thread, however, is about how plasma affects aircraft, and it's a great field, big thing in the future, wonderful tech, wish I could tell you all about it.

People like yourself would have said plasma actuators were full of poo poo too until they were revealed publicly. By your logic the government can't keep technological secrets because they would all be published in journals...

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

That all costs BIG BUCKS... and eve then the journals likely wouldn't accept it. Look at Randell Mills of Blacklight power. Look at what happened to cold fusion when it was discovered. A journalist at MIT said they deliberately suppressed experimental data showing there was something to it then the journalist from MIT was murdered when tryign to bring this info public.

Cold fusion was investigated by every lab in the US at one point, it's still being looked at by the Navy. If you're talking about Mallove, he was mugged. I also wouldn't call him a journalist at MIT.

This is what we call 'science'.

Actually it's called big business.

Odd, the number of scientific advances that occur all the time.

Have you ever considered things like cold fusion and electrogravitics have been kept secret so long specifically because they are so difficult to "prove"?

In the case of cold fusion, it's under investigation still. Electrogravitics, on the other hand, is bollocks, and so is quite difficult to prove in a positive way. Without experimental verification, how does LaViolette know he didn't just get his maths wrong?

How can we know this when no one can get money to test it fully? Just because it can't be proven by guys tinkering in their garages doesn't mean it isn't possible. In fact from the info I have seen I am certain it is possible.

Plenty of people looked at that too, over the years and recently when the 'lifter' bs started. NASA's Exotic Propulsion group in Huntsville built a pile of lifters, nothing new, SOS, it was dropped.

I know he's not.. and I suggest people here not listen to people like yourself on this and explore this information. The government has everything riding on keeping this secret.. if you don't think they could keep people from figuring it out you are terribly mistaken.

If by 'exploring' you mean reading the same old whackadoo websites, what a waste. And you mean 'I think, with no evidence, that the government has everything riding on this secret', because frankly ion wind propulsion is less useful than rubber band propellers.

Really, if it could be made to work experimentally, LaViolette would be up for a Nobel. I'll wait and see if he's nominated.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Really, if it could be made to work experimentally, LaViolette would be up for a Nobel. I'll wait and see if he's nominated.

Your entire premise hinges on one person being able to - figure it all out.

How far do you think one person would have gotten trying to figure out how to build the first atomic bomb? Do you know the resources it took to do that? And even with all those resources it still took ages to make the first nuclear power plant.

Nuclear power might even be simple compared to gravity control. Read Nick Cook's book.. one of the guys proposing tackling the problem said they needed a Manhattan Project type group to solve the problem and it would still take 5 years...

That same guy wouldn't accept an interview by cook not long ago.. why do you think that might be? John Lear's dad was hyping antigravity publicly in the 50s... why do you think John Lear might be so focused on talking about aliens now rather than what his dad or the government developed? What better way to discredit what his dad said back then than to have him talking constantly about aliens now..?

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

People like yourself would have said plasma actuators were full of poo poo too until they were revealed publicly. By your logic the government can't keep technological secrets because they would all be published in journals...

No, because it's got physics behind it, and you can quite easily do reproducible verification. That's way different than "I made up these equations and can't verify them so IT"S SUPPRESSED!@!!"

It's been out for quite a while, just that it's sort of fringy and wasn't really addressed for aerodynamic modification until the late 90s. It had a lot of issues at first. The B-2 was the first functional retrofit in the US fleet.

Before THAT, it was used to augment stealth capabilities.

In terms of stealth augmentation, he Russians, whom we stole the idea from, had tried to do it a bad way in the late 80's and it sort of killed some test pilots, so they gave it up as a bad job at the time, Koroteyev came back with an improved system in '98 and it worked a lot better.

The Russians first started screwing around with it in the 50's and couldn't pull it off. We got wind of it and it was investigated in the US, a patent was filed in 1964 on it, we did some small systems in the 60's on the SR71 but it didn't pan out. Later, a non-electrical version was used on some spy planes, very nasty and dangerous and crude, but it worked, if you didn't mind killing people.

Originally posted by Bedlam


It's been out for quite a while, just that it's sort of fringy and wasn't really addressed for aerodynamic modification until the late 90s. It had a lot of issues at first. The B-2 was the first functional retrofit in the US fleet.

Before THAT, it was used to augment stealth capabilities.

You just explained how it could be kept secret.....

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

Your entire premise hinges on one person being able to - figure it all out.

Szilard didn't figure out the entire nuclear program, he just came up with a conjecture about chain reaction and some physics to show why it might work, and that set the whole thing off.

If LaViolette's physics looked plausible, I'm sure it would be the same. If it looked bogus, no one's going to bother.

No one's bothering.

John Lear's dad was hyping antigravity publicly in the 50s... why do you think John Lear might be so focused on talking about aliens now rather than what his dad or the government developed? What better way to discredit what his dad said back then than to having him talking constantly about aliens now..?

Maybe John and his Dad have a lot in common. I actually like John, we used to have a lot of back and forth when he was here. I am still convinced he gave us a ride once when I was in the Army, he was in the right place doing the right thing, the time is off a year or two, but when I saw his photo back in those days it really looked like that guy. Who can say.

At any rate, maybe he doesn't talk about it because there wasn't anything to talk about.

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

Originally posted by Bedlam


It's been out for quite a while, just that it's sort of fringy and wasn't really addressed for aerodynamic modification until the late 90s. It had a lot of issues at first. The B-2 was the first functional retrofit in the US fleet.

Before THAT, it was used to augment stealth capabilities.

You just explained how it could be kept secret.....

Which 'it', the real one or the bogus one? It's tough to keep it straight with you.

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

Originally posted by Bedlam


It's been out for quite a while, just that it's sort of fringy and wasn't really addressed for aerodynamic modification until the late 90s. It had a lot of issues at first. The B-2 was the first functional retrofit in the US fleet.

Before THAT, it was used to augment stealth capabilities.

You just explained how it could be kept secret.....

Also, 'the government keeps some tech secret'
and 'i think this bogus electrogravitic hockey is real!!'
doesn't yield ' therefore electrogravitics are real because I haven't seen any mention of it' as a logical conclusion.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Szilard didn't figure out the entire nuclear program, he just came up with a conjecture about chain reaction and some physics to show why it might work, and that set the whole thing off.

If LaViolette's physics looked plausible, I'm sure it would be the same. If it looked bogus, no one's going to bother.

No one's bothering.

As I said.. electrogravitics is likely far more complex even than the bomb.... look how little we even understand about gravity... 90 percent of the mass of the universe is missing - hence dark matter.

Maybe John and his Dad have a lot in common. I actually like John, we used to have a lot of back and forth when he was here. I am still convinced he gave us a ride once when I was in the Army, he was in the right place doing the right thing, the time is off a year or two, but when I saw his photo back in those days it really looked like that guy. Who can say.

At any rate, maybe he doesn't talk about it because there wasn't anything to talk about.

I know better... If you look at all the evidence that is out it's really quite obvious. The problem is people are so distracted by all the nonsense we are bombarded by constantly.. this site is a perfect example of that. Which is why this thread is so ignored.

That is why it is a secret right in plain sight.. and likely why they publish info about "plasma actuators".... because people will assume that's all there is to it. Again.. I know better. sadly no one else will listen. The power of disinformation. That's probably the only way things can really be kept secret anymore...

Originally posted by Bedlam


Which 'it', the real one or the bogus one? It's tough to keep it straight with you.

Both are real.... it's just one is more "fringy". Extremely fringy in fact... it's fringy because the government has mounted an incredible campaign to make it fringy..

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

Originally posted by mbkennel
If you can do it at high temperatures and pressures you might be able to increase engine RPM and thus power and maybe efficiency.

Nick Cook said in his book The Hunt For Zero Point that electrogravitics made aircraft slip through the air like a bar of soap slips through your hands when wet... Imagine that same principle used in an engine..

I'm not convinced there is any actual thing called 'electrogravitics'. The plasma actuators are plasma physics, fluid mechanics and Maxwellian electrodynamics.

They probably have some way of avoiding this problem... maybe that's what HAARP is for.... shoot it at a certain geographic location and you can create noise to allow your stealth craft to go undetected. Something like that... It could have something to do with frequency as well.

That doesn't seem to make alot of sense.

Originally posted by mbkennel
I'm not convinced there is any actual thing called 'electrogravitics'. The plasma actuators are plasma physics, fluid mechanics and Maxwellian electrodynamics.

Electrogravitics is related to all those areas as well. You need to read LaViolette's book.

That doesn't seem to make alot of sense.

If you say so, it must be true...

www.thelivingmoon.com...

A picture tells a million words. Add this to an aircraft with fluidic thrust vectoring and you well on your way to a total control surface free airframe for all but take off and landing. Add then some of the research done for morphing wing and your airframe just got very funky indeed.