The Most Important Day

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posted on Mar, 26 2013 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


You fail to understand the concept of sacrifice, in particular the redemption sacrifice, perhaps difficult for any imperfect human mind to grasp.
God's justice is perfect and all encompassing it even makes him do things he perhaps would rather not do.
A perfect human life was thrown away before any other perfect humans were born, thus the human family needed to be restored by another perfect human giving up their life willing to restore the balance. Jesus willingly offered to do this, as it would be a challenging assignment, and could not be left to an angel, God needed someone he knew would get the job done.

Perhaps like some, you just disagree with the way God handled this matter, and that is your prerogative.
But a physical being that has lived less than a century, can't be more intelligent or wise than God, everything he does has a reason even if we don't fully understand it. When we were children we never understood some of the choices and decisions are parents made(the ones that were to our benefit) then years later when we are older and wiser, perhaps even parents ourselves we finally understand. Something as simple as tightly holding on the hand of a child when near or crossing the road, and child tries to pull away or struggling even crying when no release happens, not realizing the parent is tying to protect the child from a potential accident. As an adult we then realize why our parent did that, but as young children we may not have fully understood why, even if it was explained to us.

Essentially we are all children of God. Full complete understanding is not required, just trust which translates into faith.




posted on Mar, 26 2013 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by adjensen
 





So he killed him through inaction? That's irrational.


Soooo, these two are completely innocent and should be set free?

Explain how God not doing anything is conspiratorial or coercive.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:05 AM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 





You fail to understand the concept of sacrifice, in particular the redemption sacrifice, perhaps difficult for any imperfect human mind to grasp. God's justice is perfect and all encompassing it even makes him do things he perhaps would rather not do.


You just proved yourself to be unreachable. You are so lost in your belief that all rationality is gone. You are blind to the fact that this god is flawed, insane, and even if he existed, he would be something to hate.

1. The concept of sacrifice is to kill. Be it an animal or a man, why would a god need this as a requirement for us to prove our love for him? That's insane. Why would a loving, merciful god approve killing of any kind for any reason?

2. The redemption sacrifice is beyond stupid, and proven to be a fabrication made up by man. Instead of a god killing his son four our redemption, all he had to do was say to the world, 'I am now forgiving sins." That's all. No need for gruesome, gory, bloody acts of violence to prove his love for us. That's just insane.

Sadly, you will defend these points with your brainwashed mind, so I have no need to respond any further. If you can't see the absolute lunacy in these things, what's the point of discussing them?



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by adjensen
 





So he killed him through inaction? That's irrational.


Soooo, these two are completely innocent and should be set free?

Explain how God not doing anything is conspiratorial or coercive.


Explain how an all-powerful, all-knowing god isn't guilty? Was the plan to kill his son a random event or was it conceived, approved, with people being manipulated by god to bring this murder to its fruition?



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by adjensen
 





So he killed him through inaction? That's irrational.


Soooo, these two are completely innocent and should be set free?

Explain how God not doing anything is conspiratorial or coercive.


Explain how an all-powerful, all-knowing god isn't guilty? Was the plan to kill his son a random event or was it conceived, approved, with people being manipulated by god to bring this murder to its fruition?

You first


Who killed Jesus? You think God did it? That's quite a stretch from "he's guilty because he could have stopped it and didn't."



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 

The ego and pride of man killed Jesus ie: we all killed Jesus. Thank God he forgave us!



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Explain how an all-powerful, all-knowing god isn't guilty? Was the plan to kill his son a random event or was it conceived, approved, with people being manipulated by god to bring this murder to its fruition?

Your ignorance and bias is showing jiggerj.

God's power was revealed in apparent weakness. Son and father are one, in love. You're basing your nonsense on a misconception of the relationship between the father and the son.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 



Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by jiggerj

Explain how an all-powerful, all-knowing god isn't guilty? Was the plan to kill his son a random event or was it conceived, approved, with people being manipulated by god to bring this murder to its fruition?

Your ignorance and bias is showing jiggerj.

God's power was revealed in apparent weakness. Son and father are one, in love. You're basing your nonsense on a misconception of the relationship between the father and the son.


If it is a misconception, it is one fostered by the teachings of Judaic churches all over the world. If you have scripture proving that the brutal murder of Jesus was not planned by "God" long before Nazareth even existed, please post it.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 



Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by adjensen
 





So he killed him through inaction? That's irrational.


Soooo, these two are completely innocent and should be set free?

Explain how God not doing anything is conspiratorial or coercive.


Explain how an all-powerful, all-knowing god isn't guilty? Was the plan to kill his son a random event or was it conceived, approved, with people being manipulated by god to bring this murder to its fruition?

You first


Who killed Jesus? You think God did it? That's quite a stretch from "he's guilty because he could have stopped it and didn't."


According to what is taught in churches today, "God" is responsible for the birth, personality, and life story of every character involved in the death of Jesus. "God" wrote the story, designed and created all the characters, and gave the green light. He is the director, producer, screenwriter, caster, set designer, and manufacturer. Everything that happened could not have happened without his prior approval. Every single factor and variable that lead up to the event was guided by his hand. To say otherwise is to deny his all-powerful nature.

So yes. Since he controlled every single thing about Jesus' death, he is as guilty as any of the men who assaulted Jesus. He could have surpassed the entire ordeal with a thought, could have sent Jesus to reign over the world as an immortal king, could have demonstrated any number of miracles that would have proven his love and benefaction for every living creature on earth.

For a god, his methods are suspiciously human.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


There's a flaw in your argument. God doesn't and didn't deal in sin and evil, only made it possible with free will.

Sure his remedy occurred by anticipation, but it doesn't mean that he was playing both sides of the fence.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
According to what is taught in churches today, "God" is responsible for the birth, personality, and life story of every character involved in the death of Jesus. "God" wrote the story, designed and created all the characters, and gave the green light.

What church teaches that?


I've studied a lot of different Protestant theologies, as well as Roman Catholic, and I've never heard any church teach that, though you (who isn't Christian and doesn't go to church) act like it's mainstream Christianity.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 



What church teaches that?


All the ones that use the Bible as reference material, I'm sure.


I've studied a lot of different Protestant theologies, as well as Roman Catholic, and I've never heard any church teach that, though you (who isn't Christian and doesn't go to church) act like it's mainstream Christianity.


I hang out with a lot of mainstream Christians. From what you're telling me, you don't believe your god is all-powerful at all or you would be agreeing with me. Is your god all-powerful, or just a glorified superhero?



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by adjensen
 



What church teaches that?


All the ones that use the Bible as reference material, I'm sure.

No, that is not the case. Even extreme Calvinists don't claim that human beings are redundant, which is what you're representing.


I hang out with a lot of mainstream Christians. From what you're telling me, you don't believe your god is all-powerful at all or you would be agreeing with me. Is your god all-powerful, or just a glorified superhero?

Omnipotence has absolutely nothing to do with it, nor does omniscience, and it's obvious that, if you do "hang out with a lot of mainstream Christians," you haven't learned anything from them.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 



No, that is not the case. Even extreme Calvinists don't claim that human beings are redundant, which is what you're representing.


They save themselves from that argument by claiming that "God" requires someone to love who will also worship him. But without using so many words. That's the best answer I've gotten, anyway.


Omnipotence has absolutely nothing to do with it, nor does omniscience, and it's obvious that, if you do "hang out with a lot of mainstream Christians," you haven't learned anything from them.


It has everything to do with it if you're attempting to excuse the morality or plausibility of "God"s methods. What exactly are you arguing here? That "God" didn't create everyone? That "God" doesn't control everything? What are you saying?



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

God grants us freedom, including the freedom to abuse our freedom, which leads to separation from God, so a generous remedy was inserted into the equation so that reconciliation with the holiness and righteousness of God might be possible.

If it was a free-for-all as in "do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" then debauchery and not righteousness would rule, and so instead of a building up of the mystical body of man (in Christ) there would be a cataclysm to the point that no one could be saved.

Your issue with God is one whereby you see it as a limitation or constraint upon your freedom presumably because you would like to reserve the right to sin. If you could see the humor in this, then you would begin to understand the truth about Christianity, and the who what when where how and why of it all.

Fearing a just and fair judgement - many would rather try to place God in the docket even though the verdict was forgiveness of their sin. Now that's very funny, and absurd!


edit on 27-3-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 




God grants us freedom, including the freedom to abuse our freedom, which leads to separation from God, so a generous remedy was inserted into the equation to that reconciliation with the holiness of God might be possible.


I deny the Holy Spirit of the Judaic faith.

...There. I am forever separated. What now?


If it was a free-for-all as in "do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" then debauchery and not righteousness would rule, and so instead of a building up of the mystical body of man (in Christ) there would be a cataclysm to the point that no one could be saved.


Righteousness is dangerous. It promotes inequality and division.


Your issue with God is one whereby you see it as a limitation or constraint upon your freedom presumably because you would like to reserve the right to sin. If you could see the humor in this, then you would begin to understand the truth about Christianity, and the who what when where how and why of it all.


I see it as a judgment. More to the point, humans emulate that which they admire. Should they choose to admire a violent narcissistic sociopath, they will emulate that behavior. I encourage spiritual independence to the point that our philosophies are based on an ever-present system of understanding and sharing, rather than condemnation and supplication. This teaches us to utilize imperfection instead of abhoring it, so that we may find peace and joy in all things.

Essentially, it gives them an understanding, a comprehension, that allows them to coexist peacefully with that which would otherwise disturb them. So my issue with your god is not one of rebellion, but one of independence. Independence to find our own way to live peacefully and productively, without being overshadowed by the pressure of never being good enough. No one should ever have to sell their soul for peace of mind.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

We are a work in progress on the path of progress towards perfection, so our flaws are not to be cherished and celebrated, nor rejected, they are to be surfaced, and forgiven, so that we might grow psychologically and spiritually and contain more of the Spirit of Light and Life and Love that although boundless is framed by the law of Life and Love.

If the game of life had no rules and no parameters and was lawless, then it wouldn't be worth playing.

The Reality is kind, generous, loving, forgiving, merciful, playful and filled with joy and peace and happiness and everything has been given to us and here you are complaining that debauchery is out of bounds.. !

The whole idea of Christianity is that it is a process of reintegration into God through a shared, sympathetic death and resurrection, and a rebirth into the Light of Life which is unsullied awareness.

I admit that I have a ways to go, and that I fall short of the mark, and we all do and have and that's the point and why we are in need of salvation "from above" or from an incorruptible center and source which makes no compromise with sin and evil (is righteous).

I'm glad that God is an all-good God, and that he so loves me that a provision was made by which I might get to be reintegrated and enjoy everlasting life in the Light of Life that is God.

If you love life and the best that life has to offer, you love God.

I give thanks for my shame and conviction because God disciplines those he loves.

"Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me."



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by adjensen
 



No, that is not the case. Even extreme Calvinists don't claim that human beings are redundant, which is what you're representing.


They save themselves from that argument by claiming that "God" requires someone to love who will also worship him.

No, God doesn't require anything.



Omnipotence has absolutely nothing to do with it, nor does omniscience, and it's obvious that, if you do "hang out with a lot of mainstream Christians," you haven't learned anything from them.


It has everything to do with it if you're attempting to excuse the morality or plausibility of "God"s methods.
What exactly are you arguing here? That "God" didn't create everyone? That "God" doesn't control everything? What are you saying?

As I said, you don't know what you're talking about. God doesn't "control everything" -- that's not what omnipotence and omniscience mean.



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 



No, God doesn't require anything.


Then why are we here?


As I said, you don't know what you're talking about. God doesn't "control everything" -- that's not what omnipotence and omniscience mean.


If "God" doesn't control everything, he isn't all-powerful. Are you sure you're a Christian? No wonder these threads never go anywhere. If you don't hold Christian beliefs, then don't call yourself a Christian. I can at least agree with them that far...
edit on 27-3-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2013 @ 03:18 PM
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Maybe God likes surprises?





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