Jesus Christ about to appear? Prophesies to watch.

Problem here. In Matthew 24 he makes a curious statement about his return.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So the question becomes "What is the carcass?" And after looking for it there appears to be a simple answer. It's the ram of Daniel 8.

In the prophesy of Daniel 8 Daniel had a vision of a goat battling a ram. Eventually the ram is killed. Leaving a carcass. So is the carcass Persia? Today's Iran? Another detail of the prophesy. 2 nations or kings were to be conquered first. And did Iraq and Afghanistan fulfill that part of the prophesy?


Now I do know that the prophesies of Daniel were fulfilled once back in the 1st century AD and before but there is a problem. Biblical prophesies can sometimes repeat. And this is what Jesus Christ seems to be implying. Especially with the Matthew 24-15 reference. An event that had already happened by his time.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

Why bring up ancient history unless it was supposed to happen again?

Jesus Christ about to appear?

I wish.

But of course 'no one knows the hour' ... so it's impossible to say.
People all through the past 2,000 years have thought they were in the end
times. And yet ... time continues on.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Just a minor problem with that. The actual statement is this in Matthew 24.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

The problem is the entire parable. It states that when you start to see end time events come to pass then you will know the season is upon you. Also if you read the entire prophesy you can also figure out the event that verse 36 is referring to. And that is in verse 14.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

So has this event happened? I would say yes based on the fact that a nation of Israel was born in 1948. An event predicted in multiple places in the bible. And that would make the nation of Israel a fig leaf. Also meaning verse 14 is complete. As it's supposed to be the first fig leaf. And Israel would be a sucessive one.

The fig tree is leafing out.

The carcass refers to all the people who will be killed by the brightness of His coming. When Jesus returns, there will be three classes of people: the righteous dead who will rise from their graves, those who will be alive but will change in the twinkling of an eye, and those who will die at the sight of Jesus and all His glory.

Their dead bodies will be everywhere, and the birds and other animals will feast on their carcasses.

Revelation 19:16-18(KJV)
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Originally posted by jeramie
The carcass refers to all the people who will be killed by the brightness of His coming. When Jesus returns, there will be three classes of people: the righteous dead who will rise from their graves, those who will be alive but will change in the twinkling of an eye, and those who will die at the sight of Jesus and all His glory.

Their dead bodies will be everywhere, and the birds and other animals will feast on their carcasses.

Revelation 19:16-18(KJV)
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Do you honestly believe that the dead will rise?

And that people will die at the mere sight of Jesus if and when he comes back?

Sounds like a fairy tale to me...

Perhaps even a nightmare



Edit: Thank you for inspiring my latest thread

The dead will rise? The fairy tales of religion

@OP

Well, I think you are on to something here.

As to it being "fulfilled prophecy", it states that it is for the end, so no problems there.

When you look at Daniel 7, there are 4 Satanic empires in succession:
the lion with eagle wings, the bear, the 4 headed leopard, and then the 4th terrible beast with 10 horns. In modern terms: UK controlling the US (that's what it says), then Russia plucks the wings off the lion (Russia defeats the US), then the 4 headed EU, then the 4th terrible beast with iron teeth with 10 horns ruled by the little horn/ 11th horn.

So, in Daniel 8, you've got 4 EU leaders, one of whom is going to be the leader of the 4th terrible beast.
The carcass would indeed translate as the Ram/ Russia and Iran. I think of Revelation as 4 cycles:

Seals 1-7, then Woe 1/ Trumpet 5; then Woe 2/ Trumpet 6; then Woe 3/ Trumpet 7.
1] Lion w/ wings is now,
2] the bear/ Russia/ Gog rules in the Trumpet 5 cycle which is characterized by martyrdom and suffering,
3] then the 6th Trumpet cycle with the start of the 3rd Temple (Revelation chptr 10,11), and the witnessing of the 2 witnesses
4] then the 7th Trumpet/ 7 bowls, wrath of God cycle aka the "Millenium" (not really 1000 years, just when Jesus Christ is among us as per 2 Peter 3:8)

The Psalm 83 war would start late October of this year, bringing Gog to power 11-16-13, 5 months before Passover 4-15-14, to end the Ram/ bear/ / Russia Gog's reign with the 1st Armageddon war that brings the EU 4 to power. The 2nd Gog war is at the end of the 7th Trumpet timeframe.

When Daniel 8 talks about the sanctuary being cleansed at the end of 2300 days, this is a reference to the 3rd temple that is started at the end of 5th Trumpet/ death of the Ram/ carcass and start of the 6th Trumpet timeframe.

Hmm. Lot to think about here.

Highly unlikely considering they never existed in the first place.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Jesus Christ about to appear?

I wish.

Why would you wish such a terrible thing? Are you so pure as to assume you WON'T be thrown into hell? Of the billions and billions that have lived on this earth, a teeny tiny percentage will be "saved". To wish for a christ to appear is to wish for the end of the world, to wish for those that you love (that have sinned) to be tossed into eternal fiery damnation.

Jesus appearing is NOT a good thing at all!

• We had the new Pope and the prophecy of Malachy.
  
• We had N. Korea threatening the US w/Nuclear destruction.
  
• We had the POTUS going to Israel and prophecies of him possibly forging a seven-year peace agreement.
  
• We had several comets appearing... one in Russia did some damage.
  
• We had the potential collapse of the world currency starting in Cyprus....
  
• We had a swarm of 4.x and 5.x EQs yesterday in the Pacific ATS Thread link.
  

Not that I believed a lot of the prophecies connected w/the above, they were something to watch out for. But by and large, all of these events pretty much fizzled out into normalcy.

The outcome right now, as far as I can see: Is that nothing is really going on that's prophecy-worthy that's connected to the imminent return of our Savior.

Maybe one or more of the above issues that are simmering will all of a sudden boil to the surface, and things will start happening- to the point where the rapture occurs. My personal belief is that Jesus didn't tell us a specific date because that way, so He can change it to be whatever He wants.

As someone said... strange times we are living in.

reply to post by ntech

You need to look over the whole of Daniel ch11.
The whole "Greece and Persia" business comes at the BEGINNING of the chapter.
The "Abomination of desolation" comes at the END of the chapter.
A whole list of events is narrated between those two things, a list which (you should take note) occupies several generations of kings.
In other words, "Greece and Persia" and "Abomination of desolation" are several generations apart.
Even on your own theory, "Greece and Persia" has not yet happened, even if it is imminent.
If "Greece and Persia" is only happening now, at the very earliest, then the Abomination must be several generations in the future.
Just read through ch11, generation by generation, and see for yourself.

reply to post by jiggerj

Jesus appearing is NOT a good thing at all!

That's a philosophy that I've heard. When He comes, it will be good... it will be very good... for those who are ready. The point is, as you would guess, is if one is not: get and be ready.

ETA:
It's a little bit selfish to say to Jesus... "Please don't come now, because I'm not ready", or "Please don't come, because so-and-so is not ready". Do you really want the whole system, with the accompanying suffering, diseases, new diseases, massive death rates, bio-engineering- making small monsters, GM Foods, murders, starvation, abortions, sex trafficing, rapes, corruption, poverty, die-offs of sea animals and birds en-masse... to just continue just because you, or a person you know is not ready? Think about it.

reply to post by ntech


Thinking about it some more.... The "Ram"/ carcass/ Russia/ bear is the sacrificial animal that starts the 3rd Temple!

Numbers 15

The Lord told Moses
2 to give the Israelites the following laws about offering sacrifices:
3 Bulls or rams or goats[a] are the animals that you may burn on the altar as sacrifices to please me. You may also offer sacrifices voluntarily or because you made a promise, or because they are part of your regular religious ceremonies. The smell of the smoke from these sacrifices is pleasing to me.
4-5 If you sacrifice a young ram or goat, you must also offer two pounds of your finest flour mixed with a quart of olive oil as a grain sacrifice. A quart of wine must also be poured on the altar.
6-7 And if the animal is a full-grown ram, you must offer four pounds of flour mixed with one and a half quarts of olive oil. One and a half quarts of wine must also be poured on the altar. The smell of this smoke is pleasing to me.

Every symbolic beast in the Bible represents a nation. A ram is a beast, a male sheep/lamb. The lamb always symbolizes Jesus. So a ram is a "Christian nation." This one has two horns, one bigger than the other. Sounds like a pretty good description of our Republican/Democrat political system to me; one is always more powerful than the other. So to extend the analogy of the carcass, that'd be the corpse of America Jesus referred to if the link to Daniel is valid.

As for "no one knows the day/hour," that was accurate when Jesus said it. At that time, nobody knew when the end would come. That's why it says "knows" instead of "will know." When you see the abomination, the rapture is at hand. Everyone paying attention will know the day then, because it's the same day: the day of God's Wrath. Everyone is paying attention, right?

Originally posted by MarkJS
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Jesus appearing is NOT a good thing at all!

That's a philosophy that I've heard. When He comes, it will be good... it will be very good... for those who are ready. The point is, as you would guess, is if one is not: get and be ready.

ETA:
It's a little bit selfish to say to Jesus... "Please don't come now, because I'm not ready", or "Please don't come, because so-and-so is not ready". Do you really want the whole system, with the accompanying suffering, diseases, new diseases, massive death rates, bio-engineering- making small monsters, GM Foods, murders, starvation, abortions, sex trafficing, rapes, corruption, poverty, die-offs of sea animals and birds en-masse... to just continue just because you, or a person you know is not ready? Think about it.

edit on 25/3/2013 by MarkJS because: last para. modified.

Those that will be saved are already written in some book of life, or whatever the hell it's called. If YOU aren't in that book, well, let's see your best impersonation of bacon frying in a pan.

reply to post by ntech

So the question becomes "What is the carcass?" And after looking for it there appears to be a simple answer. It's the ram of Daniel 8.

The verse about the carcass and the eagles (vultures in some translations) could have been a rhetorical statement or some obscure proverb that Jesus referred to.

The "carcass" in question need not necessarily be a reference to Daniel, as Jesus never cross referred to Daniel (as he does with Isaiah).

Perhaps the carcass and eagle statement could be interpreted in a simple "where theres fire there is smoke" kind of way.

Perhaps the carcass and eagle reference is a reminder that dead things are always surrounded by that which eats at it.

Perhaps the eagles/vultures are symbolic of the godlessness that emerges in a place where faith has died or collapsed....(the carcass) ... and from such a place will begin the tribulation... during which the signs of Jesus' return appears.

God knows best.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Afraid you're incorrect there. Matthew 24-15 directly refers to Daniel 11-31. As I see it verse 24-28 is simply a 2nd Daniel reference in the same sermon. And Jesus Christ was trying to give us a signpost that his coming was imminent.


Matthew 24

reply to post by DISRAELI


Actually the timeframe here is much shorter here than you think. According to Daniel 9 the 70 weeks are broken down as 7 weeks, 62 weeks, and one week. And most of Daniel 11 occurs in the one week.

Daniel 11

Looking at Daniel 11 the 7 year agreement is signed in verse 11-6. The temple is desecrated in 11-31. And the evil one dies in 11-45. That all happens in 7 years.

The Greece and Persia business is a preliminary event happening before the 7 year agreement. Also it prepares the world for the kingdoms of the north and south which are to come.

Originally posted by ntech
And most of Daniel 11 occurs in the one week.

Look more closely at the details of the events of this chapter..
There is not one "king of the north" and one "king of the south" operating all the way through.
They each have a sequence of successors, so that the "king of the south" of one verse is not necessarily the "king of the south" of a previous verse.
In fact in the first instance the chapter is describing the history of the time between Alexander and Antiochus Epiphanes, a period of about one and a half centuries.
I've got a forthcoming thread identifying the correspondences at each stage
So if this account is going to be matched in "end-time" history, we ought to expect it to last about one and a half centuries.
If the "Greece and Persia" event is now, the Abomination would arrive about one and a half centuries in the future.
If the Abomination is imminent, then it should be possible to identify "Greece and Persia" about one and a half centuries in the past, and also to follow through the matching history of the intervening period.

The carcass is the shell of the messiah.

The messiah will be born once the energy is channeled through him. Before that happens the man is still a man and thus he is a carcass awaiting habitation.

The eagles could profess to the carcass being somewhere in America.

my 2 cents

Yes, I am here. I am the son of God.

With all the other crap being thrown about on ATS without evidence I might as well proclaim that I am the son of God and that God talks to me all the time. Of course I have no evidence and I can't turn water to wine (that was a lie) I can't heal the sick (also a lie)....etc.

However, I am the son of God and I have no evidence to back it up. My name is Jesus and I am at work right now. Gotta make some Benjamins to support my lifestyle. Money doesn't grown on trees and no I can't make that happen either.

......but I swear on a stack of bibles that I am the son of God and my name is Jesus.