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The Challenge of Qur'an

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posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:32 AM
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The Qur'an has an open challenge to reproduce a Surah like in the Qur'an.


2:23 "And if ye are in doubt as to what We have
revealed from time to time to Our
servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides God,
if your (doubts) are true."


17:88 "Say: 'If the whole of mankind and Jinns
were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they
backed up each other with help and
support.'"


Now the smallest Surah just has 3 verses. Surah Kawthar.

the transliteration(how it sounds in arabic) is


Inna aAtayna kal kawthar


Fasalli li rabbika wanhar


Inna shani-aka huwal abtar


the english translation is


Verily We have given to you the
Abundance

So pray to your Lord and sacrifice

Indeed your enemy is the one who is
cut off


Many have tried and failed

Throughout the centuries thinkers,
poets, theologians and literary critics
have attempted to challenge the
Qur’an. Some of these challengers
include Musaylamah, Ibn Al-Mukaffa‘, Abu’l-’Ala Al-Marri, Yahya b. Al-Hakam
al-Ghazal, Sayyid ‘Ali Muhammad, Ibn
al-Rawandi, Bassar bin Burd, Sahib Ibn
‘Abbad, Abu’l – ‘Atahiya and the
contemporary Christian Missionaries
who developed the ‘True Furqan’. Without going into an analysis of why
Muslim and non-Muslim scholars have
agreed that those who have
attempted to challenge the Qur’an
have failed, the summary below
should suffice: Even though the challengers have had
the same set of ‘tools’, which are the
29 letters, finite grammatical rules and
the blue print of the challenge – which
is the Qur’an itself; they have failed to:
1. Replicate the Qur’an's literary form

2. Match the unique linguistic genre of
the Qur’an

3. Select and arrange words like that
of the Qur’an.

4. Select and arrange particles like that of the Qur’an.

5. Match the Qur’ans phonetic
superiority.

6. Equal the frequency of rhetorical
devices

7. Match the level of informativity
8. Equal the Qur’ans conciseness and
flexibility



For example if we take Musaylamah’s
attempt to challenge the Qur’an,

The elephant.
What is the elephant?

And who shall tell you what is the
elephant?

He has a ropy tail and a long trunk.

This is a [mere] trifle of our Lord’s creations.

it can be clearly seen, with reference to
the Arabic original, that the style of his
speech is in the kahin style of rhymed
prose. It lacks informativity and the
words and phrases that have been
used can be replaced with words that will express greater meaning and
produce more eloquent discourse. In
other words from a literary and
stylistics point of view, this challenge
fails.



below is a
summary of chapter al-Kawthar’s
literary and linguistic features:
1. Unique Literary Form

2. Unique Linguistic Genre

3. Abundance of rhetorical devices/
features:

- Emphasis
- Multiple Meaning
- Iltifaat
- Grammatical shift
- Word order and Arrangement
- Ellipsis
- Conceptual Relatedness
(Intertextuality)
- Intensification
- Choice of words & Particles
- Phonetics
- Semantically Orientated Repetition
- Intimacy
- Exaggeration
- Rebuke and contempt
- Conciseness
- Flexibility
- Prophesy/Factual


it would be too long to explain all here, you can check the whole article here
www.hamzatzortzis.com/essays-articles/exploring-the-quran/three-lines-the-changed-the-world-the-inimitability-of-the-shortest-chapter-in-the-qur an/

i'l put some that are simple


Rhythm and Sound

The Qur’an has been described as an
“inimitable symphony” whose rhythm
moves men to tears and ecstasy. The
Qur’an not only selects the most apt
words and phrases, but also achieves
a unique sound within a unique literary form. This chapter has the
following verse end rhyme:

Kawthar…
nhar…
tar

What is noticeable about the rhyme in
this chapter is that the end rhyme of
the last two verses resonate the sound
of the word ‘al-kawthar’, what is
meant here is as if the sound of the
word ‘al-kawthar’ is extended to support the overall theme that the
Prophet has really been given an
Abundance. It is as though the word
‘al-kawthar’ has been exaggerated
and phonetically elongated to further
highlight its meaning and enhance the overall persuasive power of the
structure.


The Prophet was abused and insulted for the fact that he did not have a son and so his lineage will be 'cut-off'

one of the things that the last verse does is it responds to the enemies(haters) and it also hints towards a prophecy.

There are major opinions of the
reason for this revelation. The first
opinion is that Al-`As bin Wa’il would
say, whenever the Prophet would be
mentioned (in his presence), `Leave
him, for indeed he is a man who is cut off having no descendants. So when
he dies he will not be remembered.’
Therefore this chapter was revealed to
console the Prophet.


The other opinion is that Abu Lahab,
another leading member of the
Quraish, exlaimed `Muhammad has
been cut off (i.e., from progeny)
tonight.’ when the Prophet’s son
passed away.



What makes this chapter a prophesy
and factual is the events that took
place after this revelation.

With regards to Abu Lahab he died of
a form of plague and was not buried
by his sons until one the leading tribe
leaders noticed how his body was
rotting. His sons eventually placed the
remains of the body on a wall and threw stones on it. Abu Lahab had lost
power, honour and dignity.(cut off)

‘As bin Wa’il faced similar humiliation.
His sons had converted to Islam thus
becoming his enemies, as he was an
active enemy of Islam. Furthermore his
sons did not take any inheritance from
him. So in reality his lineage was broken. (cut off)

This is Prophetic and factual.


you may listen to it here. Its less than a minute long.




posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:56 AM
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Maybe it's my taste in music, but I'm really not that impressed.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:57 AM
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upon a time, once it happened thus,
as certain men took ink to fine skin;
set under (them), they percieved not their demise.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by tinhattribunal
upon a time, once it happened thus,
as certain men took ink to fine skin;
set under (them), they percieved not their demise.

is it not missing even the basic rhyme?



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


I don't doubt that the Qur'an was inspired by Divinity. This challenge can only be met by someone who is inspired to meet this challenge. I doubt that will ever happen.

But that doesn't mean the world should convert to Islam. The Qur'an was given to a particular time and place, and to the people whose unique temperament and psychology and style was forged in that time and place.

As are the sacred inspired texts of all religions.

But it does mean the Qur'an should be respected for what it is. One of many sacred texts.

edit on 25-3-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by BlueMule
 





But that doesn't mean the world should convert to Islam.

does it at least mean that it should be read/heard to find what the Divine is saying?

The Qur'an
was given to a particular time and
place, and to the people whose
unique temperament and psychology
and style was forged in that time and place.

not true, Qur'an itself says its for all mankind and its the last revealation to the last Prophet, so if you say its from The Divine then how do you contradict what it says?


As are the sacred inspired texts of all
religions.

this is true, and Qur'an affirms the same origin of texts that came before.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by BlueMule
 





But that doesn't mean the world should convert to Islam.

does it at least mean that it should be read/heard to find what the Divine is saying?


Yes I believe it should be studied with respect by the comparative fields.


not true, Qur'an itself says its for all mankind and its the last revealation to the last Prophet, so if you say its from The Divine then how do you contradict what it says?


Because it's a sacred text for a certain unique environment and temperament and psychology and style... a psychology which wants to impose itself on all mankind. It's understandable. I don't judge. It told them what they needed to hear.

Other temperaments and psychological types and styles and cultures have other sacred texts which are suited for them. No one is left out. Inspiration is always happening.

Like love.

Just as the pure white light spans a spectrum of rainbow colors when it goes through a prism, so to does Divine inspiration span a spectrum when it goes through the human mind. A spectrum of psychological types and cultures and archetypes and pairs of opposites... all have their honored place. Even the Qur'an and Falnama.

Just as the white light transcends the rainbow spectrum, so to does the Divine transcend the spectrum of inspiration.



edit on 25-3-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by logical7
Qur'an itself says its for all mankind and its the last revealation to the last Prophet,

Isn't that circular logic? How can something prove it's true simply by saying it's true?
I could say that I am a prophet but just because I say it doesn't mean it's true.
The Quran can claim it's for everyone and a revelation from God .. but without any
proof to back it up, it's just one claim among many similar ones in the world.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by logical7
Qur'an itself says its for all mankind and its the last revealation to the last Prophet,

Isn't that circular logic? How can something prove it's true simply by saying it's true?
I could say that I am a prophet but just because I say it doesn't mean it's true.
The Quran can claim it's for everyone and a revelation from God .. but without any
proof to back it up, it's just one claim among many similar ones in the world.



i never like circular logic, have to tolerate it a lot from scripture bashing posters,
my response was to Bluemule when he had already accepted that Qur'an is from The Divine. You misquoted me, here's what i said

not true, Qur'an itself says its for all
mankind and its the last revealation to
the last Prophet, so if you say its from
The Divine
then how do you contradict
what it says?



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 



i never like circular logic, have to tolerate it a lot from scripture bashing posters,


I think you have that backwards, actually.


my response was to Bluemule when he had already accepted that Qur'an is from The Divine. You misquoted me, here's what i said


It was written by people influenced by natural narcotics.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 

Ahhhh .... okay. I read it as you saying something totally different.
It's all good.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by logical7
 

Ahhhh .... okay. I read it as you saying something totally different.
It's all good.

i appreciate your response

i would also like your opinion on the OP, maybe the link too, i may warn you its a bit technical about arabic literature but its educating.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


hope you have something to contribute next time. Your are not a troll, are you?



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 



not true, Qur'an itself says its for all mankind and its the last revealation to the last Prophet

It may say that, log7, but that doesn't mean what BlueMule says isn't true.
The Bible, I believe, also says that it's for all mankind forever, the be-all and end-all.
Sorry, but no religion has a monopoly on the Truth (although Ba'hai looks better than the rest of the Abrahamic derivatives, in my opinion)



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





It may say that, log7, but that doesn't mean what BlueMule says isn't true. The Bible, I believe, also says that it's for all mankind forever, the be-all and end-all. Sorry, but no religion has a monopoly on the Truth

you may check my reply to FF about the same qúote of mine that you objected,
Bluemule is right, all scriptures have truth, but when i say Qur'an is for all mankind, why can't it be true?
If it has universal principles of truth and justice for all then why can't all benefit from it?
It talks about One God, respecting all prophets equally and that all scriptures are from the same Source. Isn't it an all accepting idea?
Its destroys racism and even nationalism both of which have been and still are two major factors that keep people divided.
Doesnt it have universal appeal?



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by BlueMule
 





Because it's a sacred text for a certain unique environment and temperament and psychology and style... a psychology which wants to impose itself on all mankind. It's understandable. I don't judge. It told them what they needed to hear.

yes, Qur'an has a message that,

Truth will prevail.

Injustice will end.

Oppressor would be answerable.

Each one is responsible to stand up for truth and justice.

How do you say that it is for the temperament and psychology of a specific group for a time and a place?
Isn't this a global problem now?



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 



Truth will prevail.


Between a convenient lie and a terrible truth, the human species will always choose that which gives it the strength to continue fighting for survival.

If you think truth will prevail, you have severely underestimated the dirty tactics of the human condition.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 





Between a convenient lie and a terrible truth, the human species will always choose that which gives it the strength to continue fighting for survival.

yes there are cowards who would rather lie for the sake of their selfish convenience that say a truth against themselves.
If your opinion about humans is this way then i see a time nearby when people will kill for a loaf of bread.


If you think truth will prevail, you have
severely underestimated the dirty
tactics of the human condition.

i know Truth will prevail, i see it as an evolving puzzle that is solving itself, even the dirty tactics are playing a part by hurting many and 'waking them up.'
Like i have told you before, the Game is rigged in favour of Truth, even falsehood/injustice gives a push towards Truth.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


It talks about One God, respecting all prophets equally and that all scriptures are from the same Source. Isn't it an all accepting idea?
Its destroys racism and even nationalism both of which have been and still are two major factors that keep people divided.
Doesnt it have universal appeal?

Yes, as much as any other pure religion promotes peace and acceptance, it does.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 04:53 PM
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I've looked around the Universe. It's very impressive. There's so much to do, and see. I think it's a groovy place to live. I think it's so big, because the Landlord wanted us to be comfortable. I have come to believe that it just didn't 'happen'. It has taught me one thing I know for a fact. God doesn't need to leave post-it notes.





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