Department Of Homeland Security is NOT Stockpiling Ammo

reply to post by tide88


So my question is; Do you have a CAC card reader @ home so you can access this info or are you posting it from open sources (which have no cred when it comes to exact numbers on hand) or are you emailing it to your personal email address so you can post it or do you have permission from your boss to release this information to a web site or......
Regardless something stinks
You can fool some of the people some of the time......

reply to post by ibiubu


Did you pay transfer fees and taxes? If not I need to see you, oh and by the way do you have anything unsafe in your house which may affect the safety and well being of a child or young adults. You don't have to answer but if you don't I will have to take your land and I've got about a billion rounds to back me up.....LOL

So the MRAPs were for the USMC and not DHS, right OP? Isn't that what you said? I suppose the black police/rescue paint scheme complete with the DHS seal and the words "Homeland Security" were just done for grins and then painted over with the standard tan or OD green (depending on theatre) right?

Sometimes just one facepalm isn't enough.

Look, it doesn't matter to me if the prices were request for proposals or if some upper management bureaucrat wanted to know and jotted the figure down on a stained paper towel. The fact remains that SOMEONE with access to big purse strings thinks DHS needs enough ammo to fight a war against its citizens. That alone is enough to make me dig my bunker a little faster.

Oh, and hollowpoints don't differ any negligible amount from FMJ in typical handgun engagement ranges. If you're talking about 5.56 or 7.62 NATO (.223 and .308, respectively) then I would tend to agree with you. *Maybe* and that's a big maybe if you're running killhouses and testing for penetration but instructors tend to get a little grumpy when you shoot the walls of the killhouse purpose. Still, if you're using hollowpoints during training that typically means you forgot the FMJ at the house.

The US govt murdered 78 Americans on April 19, 1993 and lied to the entire country about it. That alone tells me that they cannot be trusted. Ammo purchases be damned.

Originally posted by ibiubu
This article appears to be credible to refute the OP's point:

Business Insider

I'm not saying the sky is falling or anything about the government.

But I do have a question: Why is this needed? Fair, I believe.

The term "stockpiling" is putting bias in at the front end of the thread. The word means "to acquire a large quantity of something." Okay, define "large."

Not sure what a contract to buy firearm parts has to do with my post. You realize they run FLETC,

The FLETC serves as an interagency law enforcement training organization for 91 Federal agencies. The FLETC also provides services to state, local, tribal, and international law enforcement agencies. The FLETC is headquartered at Glynco, Ga., near the port city of Brunswick, halfway between Savannah, Ga., and Jacksonville, Fla.


In addition to Glynco, the FLETC operates two other residential training sites in Artesia, N.M., and Charleston, S.C. The FLETC also operates a non-residential in-service re-qualification and advanced training facility in Cheltenham, Md., for use by agencies with large concentrations of personnel in the Washington, D.C., area.

Seems like they would need ammo and weapons for other reason besides rounding up citizens.

Originally posted by URSOCLUELESS
reply to post by tide88

 

So my question is; Do you have a CAC card reader @ home so you can access this info or are you posting it from open sources (which have no cred when it comes to exact numbers on hand) or are you emailing it to your personal email address so you can post it or do you have permission from your boss to release this information to a web site or......
Regardless something stinks
You can fool some of the people some of the time......

LOL. google " fbo.gov DHS ammo " or other similar terms. It will list a bunch of links to the original contracts on the FBO.gov and fedbid.gov sites. The information is there, you just have to look.

Originally posted by netwarrior
So the MRAPs were for the USMC and not DHS, right OP? Isn't that what you said? I suppose the black police/rescue paint scheme complete with the DHS seal and the words "Homeland Security" were just done for grins and then painted over with the standard tan or OD green (depending on theatre) right?

Sometimes just one facepalm isn't enough.

Look, it doesn't matter to me if the prices were request for proposals or if some upper management bureaucrat wanted to know and jotted the figure down on a stained paper towel. The fact remains that SOMEONE with access to big purse strings thinks DHS needs enough ammo to fight a war against its citizens. That alone is enough to make me dig my bunker a little faster.

Oh, and hollowpoints don't differ any negligible amount from FMJ in typical handgun engagement ranges. If you're talking about 5.56 or 7.62 NATO (.223 and .308, respectively) then I would tend to agree with you. *Maybe* and that's a big maybe if you're running killhouses and testing for penetration but instructors tend to get a little grumpy when you shoot the walls of the killhouse purpose. Still, if you're using hollowpoints during training that typically means you forgot the FMJ at the house.

The US govt murdered 78 Americans on April 19, 1993 and lied to the entire country about it. That alone tells me that they cannot be trusted. Ammo purchases be damned.

If you read the link you would have seen that DHS currently has 16 modified MRAP's throughout the USA.

The Department of Homeland Security is using 16 military-style, mine-resistant ambush protected vehicles for use during "high-risk warrants," according to an official spokesman......

The MRAPs were transferred to DHS from the Department of Defense, free of charge. But despite recent reports, they have actually been in service since at least 2008.
"The MRAPs we have are not new," Ross Feinstein, a spokesman for DHS, told Business Insider. "We have been using them for years."
The vehicles are modified for use with the DHS Special Response Team — specially trained, fully armored agents dispatched during the most severe and high risk situations, according to WOAI.
"[The vehicle] is used in the execution of high-risk warrants — including drug trafficking, smuggling, and contraband," Feinstein told Business Insider. "We have 16 MRAPs nationwide."

Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

and yes the 2700 order was for the Marines. I have linked the contract that proves it.

reply to post by tide88


The FLETC QUOTE is direct from Wikapedia....please reference your info so we can all follow. Only caught that because I wanted to learn what FLETC was and went to Wiki.
Are all your sources as marginally reliable as Wiki? If so this is fast become a useless thread.

reply to post by tide88


The article on the MRAP's was edited and is now thoroughly suspect.

Sure, it's a contract. It shows the same pattern of deception as the MRAP's. If they have only (lol) 5 million rounds of ammunition, why? I call that stockpiling, unless the plans do not include storage.

Originally posted by kozmo

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
[This is incorrect. My firearms instructor is an NRA certified Range Master and active police office. They DO train with JHP and FMJ. These rounds shoot differently, and you need experience with JHP if that's what you'll be using in the field.

I'm not aware of most of the other claims you've made, but if you have sources I'd be happy to familiarize myself.

infowars is not a source.

I come from a family of military and police. FMJ is 99% of all effective training ammo. Under no circumstance is JHP EVER required in practice and qualifying. An officer MAY elect to procure LIMITED JHP for practice purposes (for reasons you state), but that is heavily restricted due to cost. That said, an officer is welcome to burn through as many personally procured JHP rounds as they may desire.

I'm also compelled to mention that under the Hague Convention of 1899, ALL hollow-point small arms are restricted in combat! As a result, DOD does not procure it.

Next, I am not about to share my FPDS nor SAM login and password for you to "Familiarize yourself". This would amount to a felony. There are other ways that you can validate if you so desire.

I don't really need to prove that these things are happening - I know they are. I also don't much care who believes it or not. In time, everyone will see it and feel it. I'm merely in this thread to call "Bullocks" on the claims made by the OP.

I believe the reason they are training with hollow-point bullets is for health and environmental concerns.

In target shooting, they are used for greater accuracy and reduction of smoke, fouling, and lead vapour exposure, as hollow point bullets have an enclosed base while traditional bullets have an exposed lead base.

Then where the heck did all OUR ammo go?

Originally posted by ibiubu
reply to post by tide88

 

The article on the MRAP's was edited and is now thoroughly suspect.

Sure, it's a contract. It shows the same pattern of deception as the MRAP's. If they have only (lol) 5 million rounds of ammunition, why? I call that stockpiling, unless the plans do not include storage.

edit on 25-3-2013 by ibiubu because: (no reason given)

It actually was updated when they found out they were providing false information. That usually happens when the information comes from a reputable source. You won't see that on info wars.

Let me ask you this. Why do DHS have to order bullets? When you can answer that question, you would know that five million is not very many at all. Also maybe you should visit this link if you think they are actually stockpiling.

govliquida tions fired brass auctions


Of course if you would actually click on the links I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself over and over again.

Originally posted by URSOCLUELESS
reply to post by tide88

 

The FLETC QUOTE is direct from Wikapedia....please reference your info so we can all follow. Only caught that because I wanted to learn what FLETC was and went to Wiki.
Are all your sources as marginally reliable as Wiki? If so this is fast become a useless thread.

Actually it is directly from the FLETC website.

FLETC.GOV

Originally posted by akalepos
Then where the heck did all OUR ammo go?

Retailers say much of the demand is from gun owners who are stockpiling in case certain weapons are banned.

Gun Dealers Report Ammo Shortage

reply to post by tide88


So your saying you"Google" your intel and you believe it and worse want use to believe it? Without "googling" it do you even know what a CAC system is and how it works? I'm asking because you avoided the question. YOU CAN'T get accurate info buy "Googling it". Eventually actual numbers and $$$ may show up in the GAO paperwork but not on GOOOGLEEE.
So again cut and paste a reci copy with your CAC and post it so I can see whats going on. Otherwise I will have to lean towards Congresional questions and DHS keeping a tight lip as indicators this crowd is way to close to the truth.
Now back to my day off and the X-Files. Scully is so hot.

reply to post by akalepos


Well a lot of it happens to be in my CACHE. I'll give you three guesses where that is. LOL

By the WAY does ANYONE really believe the OP or are we just here for our entertainment?

reply to post by tide88


Perfect, another "Transparent" source. Did you have your Kool-aid today?

Originally posted by URSOCLUELESS
reply to post by tide88

 

Perfect, another "Transparent" source. Did you have your Kool-aid today?

You beat me to it. Yes, Tide, please post a source for that tidbit about the environmental concerns. Last time I checked, my .40 S&W FMJ is completely encased in a copper jacket. That's only halfway correct, as RIFLE rounds have open bases...but so do the hollowpoint rifle rounds.

Originally posted by URSOCLUELESS
reply to post by tide88

 

So your saying you"Google" your intel and you believe it and worse want use to believe it? Without "googling" it do you even know what a CAC system is and how it works? I'm asking because you avoided the question. YOU CAN'T get accurate info buy "Googling it". Eventually actual numbers and $$$ may show up in the GAO paperwork but not on GOOOGLEEE.
So again cut and paste a reci copy with your CAC and post it so I can see whats going on. Otherwise I will have to lean towards Congresional questions and DHS keeping a tight lip as indicators this crowd is way to close to the truth.
Now back to my day off and the X-Files. Scully is so hot.

I have found the contracts which is actually the source that Info wars and other sites are using to make their claims that DHS is stockpiling. How about you link some sources that show the government is stockpiling ammo. Just one source that can confirm the number. I anxiously await.

HMMM, Well id like to know if this isnt true, Why our local police were on the local news saying that they are seeing a shortage in their rounds, and the shortage isnt because everyone decided to buy a few Billion rounds. And if it is, Im glad the rounds are in the hands of citizens and not some federal agencies

reply to post by tide88

Actually they were contracts signed last year as stated 450 million rounds over 5 years and in the OP. I have also provided a link to the contract that says they only need to purchase 10,000 rounds of each type of ammo in the first year, after that they are not required to purchase another round. And yes, according to the article you linked DHS recently posted a solicitation to purchase 360,000 rounds of HP's and as I have explained, that is a solicitation, not an actual purchase order. As I linked in the OP, they also solicited to buy 21.6 million rounds of ammo in Feb, but when the final contract was awarded it was only 140,000 rounds.

Ok, well I'm going to look into this some more on the whole solicited vs. bought theory(what it is to me thus far) using more than just the sources you provided for reasons of reducing any bias.

However that doesn't answer why the gun shops are all out of the most popular Ammo and they're all saying it's due to the Government purchases. To squash the bias, I called a few gun shops in neighboring states and they've told me the same.

There's this from 2 days ago;
Local law enforcement face ammo shortage as gun owners, DHS stock up
Link

Local law enforcement agencies across the country are facing an ammo shortage, as gun owners concerned about new laws at the federal and state level stock up on firearms and bullets. At the same time, the Department of Homeland Security has said it wants to buy more than 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition in the next four or five years -- which could put further strain on the supply. Read more: www.foxnews.com...

DHS Buys 2,717 Light Armored Tanks

According Modern Survival The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States. Although I’ve seen and read several online blurbs about this vehicle of late, I decided to dig slightly deeper and discover more about the vehicle itself.

There is also the news of 44 gun manufacturers (last time I checked and could be more by now) that are refusing to sell to Gov/State employees for sake of protecting the 2nd amendment and bring attention to whats going on.

So you too much evidence pointing toward the Gov stocking up on all types of stuff for possible use within the country. Even the fact that they are soliciting a high number of rounds, but buy less, the HIGH number, and the tanks, and the rumors, and the Government itself in the form of a few senators and state reps are beginning to wonder and ask why DHS and other branches are buying up so much Ammo.


15 Conservative Politicians Demand Answers to Huge Purchases of Weapons & Ammo by DHS

Now, fifteen Republican House members are increasing the pressure on the DHS by sending a formal letter demanding that it explain why it is purchasing so much ammunition. The letter also asks it to confirm or deny whether it is deliberately attempting to restrict the bullet supply available to the American people. Regardless of its intentions, many believe that the current ammunition shortage is related to the DHS’s commitment to purchase up to 2 million bullets in a year. Rep. Doug LaMalfa (R-California) authored the letter. In it, he wrote: The extraordinary level of ammunition purchases made by Homeland Security seems to have, in states such as my own, created an extreme shortage of ammunition to the point where many gun owners are unable to purchase any.

It doesn't add up. There's way too much out there pointing at the Gov really stocking up on Tons of Ammo, and that's only the amounts we know about. Especially when the Government itself is wondering about it!!!!