Department Of Homeland Security is NOT Stockpiling Ammo

reply to post by flyswatter
Business insider says that the number is 16, according to DHS.
Business insider

But they also say this:

The MRAPs were transferred to DHS from the Department of Defense, free of charge Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

Transferred... free of charge.

Can this happen with AMMO too?

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by flyswatter

 

Business insider says that the number is 16, according to DHS.
Business insider

But they also say this:

The MRAPs were transferred to DHS from the Department of Defense, free of charge Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

Transferred... free of charge.

Can this happen with AMMO too?

edit on 27-3-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

Transfer of ammunition from the military to DHS? I would imagine there are some rules set against that sort of thing, but I'm not positive of it. The main technical issue with that would be the fact that they use different ammunition. DHS can and does use JHP for some, while the military does not (to my knowledge).

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by tide88

 

I agree they should be using JHP as they cause less collateral damage, including killing innocents. But if they go with JHP instead of FMJ they could probably go down to .32acp to injure severly rather than kill. Most of the time sending someone to the hospital is good enough.

9mm is good for long range shooting because it is a very hot round, but unless you are accurate the bullet wound is not that big and it takes 2-3 shoots to bring someone down. I never really liked 9mm.

Who does?
Sissy euro round.
Seen people hit, run off.
But hollows are a bit extreme, not to mention they get you sued.
"Excessive force" or some such
A revolver is my weapon of choice, reliable, and you only use
Two shots in most shootings, which usually only last 2 and a
Half seconds anyway

reply to post by govspy911


What do you mean where has the ammo gone? It is all on GunBroker or CL. Every retailer sees the high prices and when they get stock, they put it up on GunBroker or resell some other way. I personally know 3 people at different stores doing this and an old woman at walmart that sells the cases to her unemployed son to resell instead of stocking the shelves. If it is so apparent in my small town I am certain this is occuring all over the US.

reply to post by flyswatter


Regardless of the MRAP count the ammo is still in question. The ATK contract is for 450 million rounds. DHS solicitation number HSFLGL-12-B-00003 dated 7/19/2012 is set for 350 million rounds.

Could these be the same contract? I highly doubt it. I did not see any amendments to change the quantities listed with that solicitation number and I seriously doubt the DHS would waste its time buying the minimum of a 1000 rounds a year especially since it believes in using expensive hallow points for "training".

Source

Originally posted by IndianaJoe
Lets settle this the only fair way.

I wager that NOTHING comes of these purchases. The DHS will not launch an attack against american citizens. The government will not bust in your house, take your guns, or rape your wife. The rule of law will will control, martial law will not be declared. The american judicial, economic, and political system will remain the most stable in all the world Hell, I even predict economic property a growth in GDP, and lowered unemployment. I will bet $100, through any medium you want, with all takers, that no armed hostile take over will occur in the next five years and that whats on our horizon is more good than bad. If you distrust the government so much why don't you put your money where your mouth is.

We are under martial law already, send me my hundred bucks.
Traitor roosevelt put us under it during the depression.
Go to a federal court, that is a navel flag that is flying, because
Navel law is martial law.
Why the constitution is ignored. Fyi.
So we are screwed already.

reply to post by tide88


Trolls aka cyber warriors?? Call it how you see it play boy

reply to post by flyswatter

DHS can and does use JHP for some, while the military does not (to my knowledge).

The Navy SEALS use 12 gauge shotguns, which I believe is outlawed under the Geneva Conventions.
I believe that military police and guards at military installations inside the US may carry JHP and soft point ammo, because that does not violate the Geneva Conventions.

This entire post reeks of disinformation. If people are too blind to see the firestorm coming, then let them burn.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by flyswatter

 

DHS can and does use JHP for some, while the military does not (to my knowledge).

The Navy SEALS use 12 gauge shotguns, which I believe is outlawed under the Geneva Conventions.
I believe that military police and guards at military installations inside the US may carry JHP and soft point ammo, because that does not violate the Geneva Conventions.

Aye, different teams have different breachers (what the shotgun or similar weapon is used for). And the JHP stuff makes sense, since they are on base in the US and not in anything considered an armed international conflict. My familiarity with MPs and guards is limited, because my interaction only goes as far as showing them my CAC when I have to go to the base.

reply to post by flyswatter

Aye, different teams have different breachers (what the shotgun or similar weapon is used for).

They say breaching.
12 gauge shotguns were carried in the jungles of SE Asia by spec ops troops and they weren't using them for breaching either.

Check out the pic in this link... The Winchester Model 12 with a rather long bayonet attached.
Special Forces at War

I doubt they were prying open doors with that bayonet mounted.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by flyswatter

 

Aye, different teams have different breachers (what the shotgun or similar weapon is used for).

They say breaching.
12 gauge shotguns were carried in the jungles of SE Asia by spec ops troops and they weren't using them for breaching either.

Check out the pic in this link... The Winchester Model 12 with a rather long bayonet attached.
Special Forces at War

I doubt they were prying open doors with that bayonet mounted.

edit on 27-3-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

I'm simply speaking about what their intended use is for now. I cant even begin to speak on how they were used in the past, as I am not nearly as familiar with that.

reply to post by flyswatter

I'm simply speaking about what their intended use is for now. I cant even begin to speak on how they were used in the past, as I am not nearly as familiar with that.

My point is that they were banned by the Geneva Convention then and were used for purposes other than opening doors AND they still are.

reply to post by butcherguy


Interesting, but those look like they are to be used for drug busts. I bet it's for Border Drug Control. The ammo could be used for that too. And they might just have some left over for anything else which might come along, like civil unrest Greek or Egyptian style.

It is a fact though, that Tunisian police refused to move against their own citizens.

reply to post by tide88


Yes, of course gun owners are stockpiling ammo in light of the attack on the 2nd Amendment, but I guess DHS can play that game too.

Originally posted by steven2977

Who does?
Sissy euro round.
Seen people hit, run off.
But hollows are a bit extreme, not to mention they get you sued.
"Excessive force" or some such
A revolver is my weapon of choice, reliable, and you only use
Two shots in most shootings, which usually only last 2 and a
Half seconds anyway

.32acp jhp is neither sissy nor "excessive force". IMO it delivers just the right amount of force to knock someone down and send him to the hospital immediately. And if you are a great shooter and a little lucky will probably kill him on the first shoot.

Compared to a 9mm fmj which is quite hot(overloaded with gun powder for its size) and does not expand, rather it burrows through the target and unless you hit a vital organ will neither kill nor shock enough because the bullet does not expand. 9mm jhp is a different story as is .40 jhp but this is definitely "excessive force" and you should be sued.

Many of the laws don't make sense. If you want to shock or kill someone without affecting innocent bystanders then it is best to go with small caliber hollow points. I don't give a # what the fbi or cia say. They have their own agendas and are known to lie.



Look at the 9mm fmj which burrows through the entire ballistic gellatin and could easily go into a second person and maybe even a third person. Way too hot round! Sure if you are expecting to shoot someone at 50 yards+ then yes it is a good round. It is all relative.

It DOES seem like there are many people who have posted here that ought to pack a FEMA bag instead of a Bug Out bag. But that's ok.

With all the talk of DHS and attacking civilians and etc., you'd think a slaughter is coming. But I ask: Can you prove to me that YOU don't somehow deserve it?

I think that MANY people are fit for slaughter. They serve no purpose other than being a pain in the butt for everyone else.

I really don't care what happens to people like that other than they just keep away from me.

If it does all unravel, I will try to get enough gas to get to a good remote hiding area. Maybe I'll be safe there for a few months to a year. They will eventually show up, I'm sure.

Part of the shortage is due to the ammo purchases, but the other part is everyone snapping everything up as fast as possible. Production can not keep up. Both Hodgdon and Sierra have told me that.

OP, you meant that they are not stockpiling to the extreme degree that is reported....but they are still a) stockpiling more than a civilian group of agencies needs in peacetime and b) they are intentionally trying to tie up future potential ammunition production to dry up the supply and drive up the price of available ammunition to the public. Even bulk 22LR ammo is ridiculous (not a military or LE calibre)....you used to be able to buy 500-525 rounds for $18-25 and now it is like $60-70.

reply to post by flyswatter


5.5 Billion rounds refers to ALL small arms ammunition, from .22 cal all the way up to 50 cal. this all falls under small arms. The ammo that is hard to get, or impossible, is the .223/5.56, 308/7.62, and 40 cal pistol. Not the non-nato related rounds. The hard to get ammunition is only the ammo that has been ordered by government agencies, so your argument about 5.5 billion rounds holds no water.

This has been debunked? Then why the ever growing number of congressmen demanding to know why they are stockpiling and big sis telling them to go fly a kite. This has hardly been debunked.