Occam's razor: autism and vaccines

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posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 09:44 PM
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I understand the debate on the subject of autism and vaccines. There shouldn't really be a debate on this.

Autism in vaccinated kids is 1 out of X

If austism in unvaccinated kids is 1 out of X, then vaccines do not cause autism. If unvaccinated kids have autism at 1 out of X-Y, Then vaccines not only stop a bunch of other bad diseases but they also help fight autism. Finally if unvaccinated kids have autism at a rate of 1 out of X+Y. Then vaccines cause autism.

I find it hard to believe that their isn't enough kids in a world wide pool, to compare to the vaccinated kids vs nonvaccinated kids to answer this question.




posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by thinline
 


As it appears, you have not done your homework on this subject. The number of children being diagnosed with Autism and related disorders has increased exponentially since the 1960's, and there are health officials that have gone public saying that there is a direct link to vaccinations. Why don't you do some googling and find this stuff out for yourself instead of trying to pick a fight that you simply are not going to win?



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by Lamos
 


A rise in diagnosis does not necessarily mean a rise in people who actually have autism. Since the 1960's, autism has gained household-name status and some, like myself, believe it is grossly over-diagnosed today. Much like ADD, many children who simply "don't fit the mold" get diagnosed with autism.



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by Lamos
reply to post by thinline
 


As it appears, you have not done your homework on this subject. The number of children being diagnosed with Autism and related disorders has increased exponentially since the 1960's, and there are health officials that have gone public saying that there is a direct link to vaccinations. Why don't you do some googling and find this stuff out for yourself instead of trying to pick a fight that you simply are not going to win?


You should do some research of your own. Why is it that someone in Minnesota is ten times more likely to have autism than someone in Iowa? Your arguement would hold water if Autism was evenly distributed all over the U.S., but it is not.



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:03 PM
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I have read several different sources where outfits like the CDC claim that there is not a large enough "control" group for such a study. Rubbish. There are the Amish and there is a (I believe) Chicago pediatric group which does not recommend vaccinations. There are your control groups.

My son is autistic, but we are secure in the knowledge (what a phrase for such a serious condition) that his condition is genetic. We've traced likely cases of Aspergers, high functioning autism and those with "autistic like traits" up both sides of the family tree. My nephew had his shots delayed until after the age of 2, then had them spread out, and was recently diagnosed with Aspergers.

I know that pharma points to studies and says "see? safe". But I've never seen a study done on the entire vaccine load that a child now receives. The recommended vaccination schedule sometimes has 4 or 5 different shots all occurring in the same visit.



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by anton74
 


This wasn't MY argument. I am not the one releasing reports and peer reviewed journals on certain chemical compounds and heavy metals that are, for some reason, found in vaccinations that are given to children right when they leave the womb right up until they start school and then some. These are medical professionals saying this, not me. As far as what you said, for the sake of fairness, your argument holds no more water than mine because I am sure what you said is more speculation than factual evidence.



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by d1gov
reply to post by Lamos
 


A rise in diagnosis does not necessarily mean a rise in people who actually have autism. Since the 1960's, autism has gained household-name status and some, like myself, believe it is grossly over-diagnosed today. Much like ADD, many children who simply "don't fit the mold" get diagnosed with autism.


Another one where I'm going to have to start bookmarking the studies I'm reading. Several years ago in California, there was a study done on the reason behind the increase in diagnosis. Factors included better trained doctors, more aware parents, broadening of the autism spectrum and the reclassification of some diagnoses to the ASD (for example, a child that would have been diagnosed as retarded in the 70's may receive a diagnosis of ASD now). That study showed that only 60% of the increase could be placed on those factors. The other 40% increase was due to unknown causes. Dang. Now I'm off to dig up that dang study...



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:08 PM
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Yay! Found that dang study:
www.scientificamerican.com...



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:09 PM
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You're right, unfortunately this thread won't go anywhere. If you make a thread simply saying "vaccines cause Autism" you're guaranteed a place in the top ten threads. If you say the opposite you'll just get stupid replies calling you a shill, ignorant and so on without anything credible to prove you wrong. It's sad, I really hope the amount of people like this on ATS doesn't reflect the real world, or we're done for.



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by Mountainmeg
Yay! Found that dang study:
www.scientificamerican.com...


Unfortunately for you it doesn't say anything in favour of vaccines causing Autism.



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by SpearMint
 


Umm right. Considering that this is a site for CONSPIRACIES, anything that doesn't fall in that category is on deck to be flamed.

This isn't a political forum site, its a CONSPIRACY site. I don't understand why people don't understand that sometimes.



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:14 PM
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reply to post by Mountainmeg
 


Really interesting, thanks for sharing! I will have to read that study as I am convinced the those factors play a much larger role than most are willing to admit.
edit on 24-3-2013 by d1gov because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by Lamos
reply to post by SpearMint
 


Umm right. Considering that this is a site for CONSPIRACIES, anything that doesn't fall in that category is on deck to be flamed.

This isn't a political forum site, its a CONSPIRACY site. I don't understand why people don't understand that sometimes.


Just because conspiracy theories is the subject doesn't mean logic and common sense go out of the _ The same rules apply to conspiracy theories as everything else, and like everything else, if you believe something just because you've read it then you're a fool. There's two sides to every argument, ATS isn't a site for everyone to come and agree on every theory that some nut case comes up with.



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by SpearMint
 


Some nutcase? Who are you to designate such absolutes? Are you a professor? Are you a medical professional? Do you hold a Doctorates degree in anything? So, because your opinion (which was influenced by what you read and watch and hear, regardless if you want to admit it) is different than mine on this subject, I am the nutcase?

Talk about logic. Lol thanks for the laugh.



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by Lamos
reply to post by anton74
 


This wasn't MY argument. I am not the one releasing reports and peer reviewed journals on certain chemical compounds and heavy metals that are, for some reason, found in vaccinations that are given to children right when they leave the womb right up until they start school and then some. These are medical professionals saying this, not me. As far as what you said, for the sake of fairness, your argument holds no more water than mine because I am sure what you said is more speculation than factual evidence.


The part about Autism rates varying by States is a well known fact. Minnesota, Oregon, and New Jersey lead the list. There are peer reviewed journals that show that you are born with Autism, you don't just "catch" it one day like a cold or a Flu. Are you aware that Autism rates vary by race and gender? Are you aware of the Genetic link that accounts for the vast majority of cases?



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by Lamos
reply to post by SpearMint
 


Some nutcase? Who are you to designate such absolutes? Are you a professor? Are you a medical professional? Do you hold a Doctorates degree in anything? So, because your opinion (which was influenced by what you read and watch and hear, regardless if you want to admit it) is different than mine on this subject, I am the nutcase?

Talk about logic. Lol thanks for the laugh.


I haven't called anyone in particular a nut case. I've seen threads by people claiming to be extraterrestrial visitors. Now, I'm not a medical professional, but they are nut cases. It was a generic term, don't get too worked up about it.
edit on 24-3-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by Mountainmeg
 


Asperger's / high functioning autism does run in families, it is hereditary.

It should not be included in any discussion concerninig the damage vaccines do to immature nervous systems. If you've ever been around an Aspie, and an individual with true autism, you will notice a world of difference. The former is wired differently. The latter presents as a child who has brain damage.

Huge difference.



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by SpearMint
 


Perhaps you shouldn't toss around insults. Have you ever considered perspective? Perhaps what you have discovered in your research differs from what another found in theirs? There are many winding paths to go down in this subject as you can see from the ongoing debate between myself and another user in this thread.

Do not be so quick to judge others based on what they believe. Sometimes people believe what they believe because they see it as the truth, not because they are a nutcase.



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by Lamos
reply to post by SpearMint
 


Perhaps you shouldn't toss around insults. Have you ever considered perspective? Perhaps what you have discovered in your research differs from what another found in theirs? There are many winding paths to go down in this subject as you can see from the ongoing debate between myself and another user in this thread.

Do not be so quick to judge others based on what they believe. Sometimes people believe what they believe because they see it as the truth, not because they are a nutcase.



I haven't said anyone that believes anything is a nut case. You've assumed a lot, let's drop it now, it doesn't matter.

People may find different things, but if they conflict then only one is right. It's up to people to prove that vaccines do cause Autism, and they haven't. Because of this people that claim to have researched the subject and found otherwise should not be taken seriously unless they provide a credible source.
edit on 24-3-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by Mountainmeg


I know that pharma points to studies and says "see? safe". But I've never seen a study done on the entire vaccine load that a child now receives. The recommended vaccination schedule sometimes has 4 or 5 different shots all occurring in the same visit.



That's because only one study has been done and it was done on Chimpanzees in 2012. Remarkably, the researchers believe the Chimps began showing autism-like symptoms. It was done at the University of Pittsburgh (Pitt, I think, it might have been Penn State.) You can look it up.

It really is remarkable that the CDC, FDA, and everyone else has never studied the combined effects of all childhood vaccines... much less all adult vaccines!





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