The scientific PROOF that sending mothers out to work harms children

I have always instinctively known this so it was important for me to stay home with my two children. My eldest was more independent by nature but my youngest was very clingy and needy. She is 6 and in kindergarten now and doing beautifully. I know this is because for six (long) years, I stayed with her. It was that simple. I was just there for her. All the time. I knew she'd outgrow her issues but I didn't know when, but it happened. I understand not all parents have the option to stay home. Sadly, my friends whose kids were raised by daycares have some issues that should not be present in children their age. High anxiety when provoked in some way. My kids are "provoked" and don't react in this dramatic way. I am very grateful I was able to stay home with them. I agree that single moms (or dads as it were) do get a lot of flack for not working, as if being a slave at your kids' expense were the end all be all of good parenting. I am talking about two parent households here. My (ex) husband was fine with it at first but then when our youngest was around 2 or 3 he decided working and putting your child into the care of someone else was just "what people do these days". Despite that we actually were able to make ends meet, albeit without much leftover. So kudos to you men who support stay at home moms. It seems you are a rare breed these days.

I didn't finish. Anecdotally, my children are very well-adjusted socially. My youngest came around and is such a charmer now. I know if I would have put her in daycare during those many years of her insecurity, the outcome would have been very different. Now I have two kids who are truly special. I wish this country, and the people of this country, would understand the importance of staying home with kids until they are at least age 3-5.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by Xaphan
People will clench their fists and stamp their feet and shout "sexism!", but sexism isn't the intent at all. It has been shown time and time again that mothers are much more important to a child's development than fathers are. People need to accept that the mother is the nurturer and the father is the provider.

I would argue until I am blue in the face that your wrong - totally wrong in fact. As long as the parent is supporting and loving, it matters not what sex they are.

Painting mothers as the best place for a child is what the courts do, yet time and again we're shown stories of kids being killed by the mother and/or their new partner - we hardly ever see any stories about Dad's doing that.

Now, I am not saying it doesn't happen, but it is also wrong to assume that mothers are the paragon of parenting and fathers are just an "also ran"...

Provide me proof that mothers kill their kids more than fathers. Thank you.

reply to post by PutAQuarterIn


I am a stay at home Dad. I agree it is looked down on by some. The pride I feel when my 6 year old son asks why his cousin acts the way she does makes me know I'm doing the right thing. His teacher comments on what a good kid he is and how he helps the other kids behave in class behave. I'm proud of him and myself.

Originally posted by starseedflower
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

You also do realize that the only quiet personal time for myself 100% alone that would be the drive to and from work, being good working parents implies a huge amount of energy both mental and physical

Do you realize I had no quiet personal time - I even had kid and husband in thte bathroom with me. The only time I had was after everyone was asleep.

Is this a sick contest - no. I stated quite clearly that I couldn't (myself - me only okay) be a decent parent and work full-time - neither occupation got my full attention and both suffered. I quite working full time. It was hard - finally and otherwise. That's what I did. Other people do other things. I always worked part-time from home when my daughter was asleep. Nothing came before my daughter's well being. I gave up a promising career, my ecomonic freedom; but what I got and my daughter got was worth every bit. Those were my priorities and I realize others have different priorities and don't have the luxury of staying home.

I admire women or men that can do it all - I can't and - and I'm not ashamed that I can't.

reply to post by ollncasino


mother should stay at home not work
that's for sure

Originally posted by ollncasino
In the first 3 years of a baby's life, its brain doubles in size. When a mother, father or grandparent spends time with a baby, every giggle, every chuckle and every tickle is literally growing the child's brain.

In contrast, leaving a child under 3 in a nursery with a carer who typically doesn't really care that much about interacting with the baby, leads to the child very quickly feeling anxious and stressed, negatively impacting normal mental development.

A fascinating example of this in practice is Dr. Edward Tronick's Still Face Experiment.

It shows what happens when an attentive mum ceases to respond to her baby. It is a powerful warning of what can happen if an adult in charge of a baby doesn't really bother. You can see and hear the child's stress level rise within seconds.

High levels of group care before the age of two have been associated with increased anti-social behaviour. A recent study found young children cared for by their mothers did significantly better in developmental tests than those in any other sort of care.

Daily Mail

Still Face Experiment: Dr. Edward Tronick

Using the "Still Face" Experiment, in which a mother denies her baby attention for a short period of time, Tronick describes how prolonged lack of attention can move an infant from good socialization, to periods of bad but repairable socialization. In "ugly" situations the child does not receive any chance to return to the good, and may become stuck.

Link

Not only has a lack of early interaction with children been associated with stress and a lack of normal mental social development, a senior Scottish policeman and world-famous expert on violence has linked much of the crime he has studied with inadequate early child care.

John Carnochan, a senior Scottish policeman and world-famous expert on violence, linked the terrible things he's dealt with all his professional life to the inadequate care babies get.

Daily Mail

Don't get me wrong. I am not condemning working women who are forced to go out and work to make ends meet. What normal mother doesn't want to spend time with their small child rather than work?

It is wrong that many women are forced to go out and work to make ends meet.

edit on 24-3-2013 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

My kids must be an exception to this then. My son is very social, was high school valedictorian, and is in honors college at the university he is currently attending. My high school age daughter is also very sociable, in a number of extra curricular activities, and is in the top 1% of her class. My wife has worked full time since they were 6 weeks old. We had them both in daycare from 6 weeks until age 5. My point is the all day absence of my wife or any family members had no adverse affects on their intelligence or social skills. The only family nurturing was weeknights and weekends.

I would also like to add that it is my belief that this experience have made my kids more independent. They were one of the few kids who pined for 'mommy' when they started school, unlike the stay at home kids who couldn't seem to untie the apron strings. Neither of my kids have had any disciplinary problems (detentions, etc) in their scholastic careers, never any alcohol/drug incidents with their friends, and they both love us dearly.

Originally posted by starseedflower
In my family I am the third generation of full-time working mums: my granny worked for the city council, my mum was a biologist and I work within a quiet busy sales office environment. My mother-in-law was a full-time working nurse and needless to say we all (including my two sons 18 and 8) turned out to be responsible people with a very caring attitude towards fellow humans. No emotional distress, no shrinks and no pills needed.
Whoever thinks that children of working mums are missing out on anything like love, attention, care or quality time is badly mistaken!
How many stay at home mums read every single evening to their children? There are plenty of dissatisfied stay at home mums letting their frustrations out on their kids though!
In the end of the day we are all responsible for ourselves and must have some occupation/work in life that goes beyond regular family life and not only provides the finances necessary for a living but also provides a life lesson on responsibility to kids.
Got the impression some people here still think that working mums/dads do not bake cakes, or cook home made pasta sauce, or do not clean the house, or do not do homework with their kids, or do not play/laugh with their children, or do not drive them to Scouts, music lessons, sports activities etc.
Not only that, we even find time to dedicate to charity and actively involve the children!

This is a great testament to working moms. They are not the bad, absentee parents as some in this thread make them out to be, just as not all stay at home moms sit around and watch the View while eating bon-bons.

Originally posted by ollncasino
In the first 3 years of a baby's life, its brain doubles in size. When a mother, father or grandparent spends time with

So in the beginning here you say mother, father, or grandparent. Yet the experiment that I glanced over admittedly was only done with the mother? So in theory the same could be said about a stay at home dad or a stay at home grandparent if they gave the baby the same level of attention needed?

I was a stay at home mom for what it was worth because I knew it was important and we made it work financially. (we were dirt poor LOL) And so many people look down on stay at home moms, it was awful. I swear I had to be freakin June Cleaver to appease people. My home had to be spotless, kids perfectly clean, tidy and happy, ect.. And even still people judged and looked down on me.

It's like so many people want perfect trouble free kids, but put no value into what it takes to achieve that. Too many value the almighty dollar more than a stay at home mom.

reply to post by ollncasino


Let me share simply what I have observed as a stay at home mom of 12 years. I have 2 daughters, aged 5 and 12. This will probably be wrong, I have a habit of going off topic into different paths, so I will try to stay on points, but there is a lot of info here. Some will be offensive to mothers who do in fact work, and children go to daycare. Not because I feel staying at home is superior, or better, but simply because all mothers will be defensive when it comes to their children. I'll start with my 12 year old.

She stayed home with me from the time she was born. She stayed exclusively with only 4-5 adults until she was 4 years old. We never put her in any activities such as dance, or gym, or play groups. We did take her to the park, but where we lived, not many people went to the park, because, in most cases, they worked and the kids were in daycare. So, for her toddler years, she was mainly around adults only. Mainly, me and my mother (her daddy works long hours and his mother did not come around very often) I played with her, and most of that play time involved learning as well. Her colors, her shapes, numbers, counting, letters and sounds, music (I play the piano) and then the occasional cartoon, mostly Dora and Blue's Clues We went to church and that was her main form of interaction with children, on Sundays for one hour. She went everywhere with me, I never had baby sitters. So, the grocery store was our playground and I would have her help me by asking things like "wheres the green broccoli" etc. Now, in most cases, your going to think "my gosh, this child must have been a nightmare when it came to preschool, sharing, and taking turns" NO. Just the opposite, because at home, I honed into her day in, day out, the importance of other's feelings, taking turns, sharing, compassion, understanding, love. When it came time for preschool, which was at the church, most of those children were also from stay at home mom families. Many of them, went on to be homeschooled. But, I saw how she loved interacting with the other children, and we could not afford a christian private school, I grew up in the public school system we live in a predominately Christian area, so, I did not really see the harm in her going to public school, not that it would be bad anyway, I believe as children get older, they need those differences of opinion to learn how to hold onto their own. BUT, I've notice one big difference between my child who stays home with me, and the children who go home to an empty house (because they are to old for daycare, no baby sitters and both parents work) I am heavily involved at school. PTA, volunteering in classrooms, tutoring, music class, etc etc. And I don't care whose toes I step on, I'm going to say it. There is a HUGE difference between the children whose mother's stay home, and those who do not. Not in the grade department, but in personality department. These children form cliques, they find it funny if someone is actually interested in what the teacher has to say, the teachers have no respect from them, because they believe they do not need the teachers, they have nothing significant to talk about, I know, 12 year old girls are mostly boy crazy...but, these aren't just 12 year olds...we're talking ages 11-14 and they all seem to act the same. The maturity level is significant between the children who have stay at home moms and those who do not. The level of respect amongst peers is different, consideration and compassion. My daughter has a hard time finding "true" friends. Not because of being home as a young child, but because she can't understand the shallowness of the children around her. She can't understand why they would view the teacher as "stupid" when they are the teacher, and the children are the students. She can't understand why she would be a "freak" for liking history class, and getting an A, and being happy about the A, if the other children are also in the advanced class and getting an A. I know bullying has always existed (and we have not ever gotten to that point with her) but, growing up in the 80s, bullying was primarily done by those children who were "jealous" and were simply upset because someone had something they wanted (food, nice home, parent's who cared, etc) today, it's just simply done, period, for no reason, not even because they want to hurt someone because they are hurting, but because its a passtime.. i.e.: NO compassion or consideration. That can only come from... not learning compassion, or consideration, from not seeing it... maybe because they are in a daycare of 15+ kids, where the daycare person pays them no attention? and has no interaction? And therefore, the kids handle themselves, therefore, learning, they don't need adults, hence... no respect.

reply to post by Nkinga


Now, I will tell you what I have observed with my 5 year old. She is a little bit different scenario. At this point in my life, we have been living where we are for 13 years. Since my 12 year old has been in school and made friends, those friend's parents have gone on to have other children and I have made more friends, and so, there is more interaction for my 5 year old child than there was for my 12 year old. Also, she began walking at 9 months, and quickly moved on to climbing...so, we thought gymnastics and dance would be the perfect outlets for her we were a little to correct, because now she is on the gymnastics team and dance team, which costs a bit to much money, but thats a different story . In other words, she was around children at a much younger age than my 12 year old. However, she was still with a stay at home mommy and the same preschool my 12 year old went to at the age of 3. She is in Kindergarten now, and again, she is having a hard time. On the days that I am not volunteering at my 12 year old's school, I am volunteering at my 5 year old's school, each week I trade the days off. And yes, in most cases, to the observer, it would be "hey, two children having a problem with peers, what the common denominator?" right? except, when I say "problem" I'm not meaning like talk to the teacher problem, go to the principal problem, I mean, simply things that I observe, and my daughters and I simply work on them at home. "Mom, what should I do when so and so says.." "Mom, how would you handle when so and so takes...." etc etc. And, it's not just me. As someone who is involved at their schools, I have of course made friends with parents (mostly moms, who stay home, and therefore have the extra time to volunteer) who are also experiencing the same problem. Again, now with grades, although, at this age level, you can see the difference slightly between the children whose parents stay home and work with them to learn vs. the parents who just rely on the school to cover it. But, again, the main difference is personality and behavior. The handful of kids whose mothers stay home (or fathers but there is only so few of those) sit at their desks, do their work and are able to productively work in a group setting, sharing ideas, sharing toys and items, helping each other out, team work. Whereas, the children who go to daycare after school are of the mentality of its one for one, and "I need to look out for myself" because no one else is going to. They can't sit still, they can't hold their noise when learning time comes, they cannot share, they cannot take turns, they cannot work together with other children as a team. Now, this is where I say the "defensive" part comes in for the mothers who work..because, when brought to their attention, they're children are not behaving badly and are no problem. In other words what I have experienced from the Parents collectively with children who go to daycare after school is "It's not my child, it's yours, it's not my child, it's the teacher, it's not my child, it's the school"

A huge example of what I mean: My 12 year old had a child at her school, who was known by every single person in the grade as the "bully" She couldn't share, she couldn't take turns (and would think nothing of grabbing or pushing) she came to school one day and told her friends about how she kicked a dog (made up story) and on any chance she got, would tell the kids that she had a knife in her backpack (this was an 8 year old child at the time mind you) Mother was called constantly, school checked the child's backpack constantly, etc. So, on this one occasion, My daughter was on the playground and the girl went walking by and my daughter was with another friend, and the child gave them a dirty look and so the friend turned to my daughter and said "I don't know why she is so mean" My daughter than says "I don't know either, she told me she kicked a dog, can you believe that?" (because you know, what 8 year old girl doesn't like a dog? in my daughters world ), so, this girl over hears her, and literally goes to like attack her and tells her "I'm going to kill you" now.... my daughter being told everyday that this child has a knife in her backpack of course gets scared and goes to tell a teacher (8 year olds don't forget..okay, like, why does my child even have to deal with something like this..at school?) This mother than comes to the school, says she doesn't believe a word of it and wants my child in trouble for gossiping. On the last day of school...this child bit a boy in the neck and was finally expelled (at the age of 8!) point? she goes to daycare at 6am (school doesn't start till 7:45) she has breakfast there, then takes a bus from there to school. School ends at 2:20pm, from there, she goes to daycare till 6:30pm.

reply to post by Nkinga


My last observance. The schools. Being in and out of the elementary school and middle school on a constant basis, It's given me some great insight into the state of affairs when concerning our public school system and how its failing at an alarming rate.

1. The children are taught what will be on the end of the year tests, thats it. Nothing else. Kindergarten teachers have some leeway, because there are no tests, but, once 1st grade comes, thats it. Teach whats on the test, and nothing else.

2. No hands on learning. At all. days where we had book reports, science projects, math models, a diorama for history class, etc..gone, no time for it, because..only teach whats on the test

3. no interaction with peers. do not make friends. There is no talking in the hallways, no classroom debates, my 5 year old has been in Kindergarten since August 1st, they have gone outside 5 times...they do have "inside" recess, but, then they can't talk because the other classrooms might not be having their recess at the same time, and they cannot be disruptive.

4. mistakes are not allowed to be made...at all. Any mistake made is viewed as disobedience and they are immediately punished. Example: 5 year olds, during math learning, were weighing objects to see what was heavier and my how much. A child was given a stapler (filled with staples mind you) and a paper clip. The paper clip gets put on the weight, followed by the stapler, which made the paper clip raise quickly, the stapler fell off, the staples came out and the child thinking they would be helping to clean up the mess, began picking up the staples to put them back in. They were made to pull a card (green yellow red card system) and had to sit time out. ?????

5. Hugs are not allowed... I know, I get the reason for this one...but... they are heavily pushing us into a society where all emotions are taken out.

6. Middle schools and high schools are severely pushing for no parental involvement at all. What do I mean by this? My daughter is 12, she began middle school as 11, and turns 12 in the mid of the year. She was suppose to be in 6th grade, but due to grades and test scores she is in the advanced 7th grade classes. As a result the work is more challenging for her (in a good way) and I make sure to stay on top of her course work and grades. Not as a "helicopter" parent, but as any normal parent does with children.... Am I right? I mean, being a normal parent should involve "hey, you have any homework today?" "hey, hows school going? you struggling on anything?" When progress reports come in and they have a C, would a normal parent not say "hey, lets pull that grade up, or at the very least "whats going on? you having trouble in this class?" The schools here have whats called the Student/parent portal. Its where you can log in at any time and see your child's grades and classwork. My child is a grade ahead and in advanced classes, getting straight A's, she has the potential to move even further ahead and accomplish great things, so, yes, I'm a bit more on top of her at this point in the game. My portal is set to any grade below 80, I get an email. They also are on the semester system, which is where, if the first nine weeks you have a 94, second you have a 100, then they average that for your semester grade, and then at the end, all 4 weeks are averaged for your year end grade. Obviously this means, if you have a 93, but its suppose to be a 98, that can make a difference on your semester average. Because I brought this to a teachers attention (who basically, had my child down for a 93 A, and figured, well, and A is an A, and she just didn't want to do the extra work for her grade book) she wanted to know why I was looking into the "PARENT/student portal so avidly and that instead, my 11 year old child should come speak to her instead. UM...no. The teacher is the adult, I am the adult, my child is just that...the child. Didn't your parents have "teacher/parent" conference?? not "teacher/child" conference..right? So, we were dealing with my mother in law having stage 4 lung cancer, and constantly had to be at doctors and hospitals, etc, my daughter had some things at school coming up that she just really could not focus on and so, we made an appointment with the guidance counselor, who could't understand why I the parent was worried about MY child's school work, when the school work wasn't mine. I was trying to get across to her, that in normal circumstances, I wouldn't be, but these were major circumstances, out of my 11 year olds (and humanity as a whole when dealing with cancer and death) control. LIke, how could she study for a science test, if we are sitting in a hospital because any day, her nanny would die?

There is much more, but that would be a whole other post.