The reality of tunnels

You've read the nonsense. Tunnels going from Roswell to Area 51 with a stop off at Edwards. Let's look at a modern tunnel project, then try to extrapolate if these interstate tunnels are feasible.

Caltrans data on the Devils Slide tunnel

OK, two tunnels less than a mile long. Total cost $439 million. That makes $219 million a tunnel. Oh, and this is in suitable soil, i.e. a mountain, not just random soil as you would find between states. And fifteen thousand truck loads of dirt. Now bear in mind the so-called interstate tunnel would have to offhaul this dirt in a covert manner (presumably possible through the tunnel itself) and then dispose of it (less likely to be done covertly).

Let's be generous and call it $200 million a mile. Of course you can say this price is inflated since the secret tunnel would have been done in the 1960s, but then again, the DoD budget was smaller then, so it all works out.

Roswell to Area 51 is about 580 miles in a direct path. Thus the cost of this tunnel. presuming a straight line, would be 116,000 million, or 116 billion dollars. I didn't bend the path to Edwards since the cost is already quite insane.

"Hello, Congress, I'd like $116 billion for a tunnel."
"Yes, I know we are the air force and have planes, but a tunnel would be so cool."
"Why do we need it? Well we don't, but you know how we like to waste money in the black budget world."

Podcast about the tunnel

The tunnel was not made with a secret nuclear rock melting device. Nope, just the New Austrian Tunneling Method, which is basic excavation and reinforcing.

NATM

Yep, decades later, we still use earth moving equipment.

If you listen to the podcast, unexpected soil conditions added a year and a half to the project. Oh, and they did test bores from above, which would be required for the Roswell to Groom Lake tunnel project. Yeah, the test bore dudes could use a Texas accent and claim they are looking for oil as a cover story.

How about time to build the tunnel? The twin bore excavation ran from 9/2007 until 1/2011. That is 3 years and 4 months, or 40 months. Call it 20 months a mile. With just one crew, the tunnel from Roswell to Area 51 would take a mere 966 years. So to complete this project in a reasonable time frame, they would need about 100 times the manpower and equipment to do the Roswell to Area 51 tunnel. [Projects over a decade long risk losing funding.]

Pretend the manpower wasn't a problem. Acquiring all that bore machinery would attract attention. If you recall the development of the U2, the fuel was similar to an oil used for bug spraying. The U2 project caused a shortage of that bug spray oil until the manufacturers could ramp up production. Acquiring material for secret projects is always an issue. Not just for black projects, but in the "white" world as well. If you are Apple and you order a certain number of LCDs, people can predict some specifications of your next iphone.

you make a good case for the tunnel.i think the tax payers would have gotten more out of the tunnel for 116 billion than the 700 billion we spent on bialing out the bankers and private corportions. probably more jobs too.

hello congress i would.like to borrow 700 billion in order to bailout some super rich guys who made bad decisions.
congress: well we know how they answered and will continue to answer.

dont be surprised if they build the tunnel just to understand what the tunneo is.

not saying they exist but your argument is flawed because you are trying to apply logic instead of following the money. some body is going to be the benefactor.of that 116 billion and most likely they are associated with those in congress.

reply to post by gariac


Good idea for a thread...





The tunnel was not made with a secret nuclear rock melting device. Nope, just the New Austrian Tunneling Method, which is basic excavation and reinforcing.

NATM

Yep, decades later, we still use earth moving equipment.


Wait...


Why not consider that Nuclear Tunnel Boring Machines are being used for the secret tunnels..?


If the agenda is double-secret-probation level, they would utilize the best equipment out there - tech not even known to the public yet.


You seem to have come to the conclusion that TPTB play with the same toys we do...

reply to post by gariac


Dear gariac,

Try this, go to the American Public Works Association and look up Hyperion. It is the Public Works Project that was called the most important of the last 100 years and it involved tunneling a very long and large wastewater pipe. It did not take decades and was done right underneath Los Angeles with the vast majority of people knowing absolutely nothing about it and it was not a secret. As for Area 51, it is a fact that much of what they do is 1,000 feet below the surface. It is not a question, it is a fact. It is also much cheaper to make these tunnels then you imagine, now if you want to verify this, look at what it cost to build Hyperion and the tunnels that led to it.

I am not saying that we have intercontinental or even continental tunnels, I simply do not know; but, I do know that it is very possible and much less expensive then you assume.

OP I did a thread some time ago Here on building underground shelters by tunneling.

There are huge benefits to nuclear heating for tunnels not the least is that they do not have to be round think 3/4 round. Build an electric railway (nuclear powered of course) as you go to remove the debris.

Want somewhere to drop all that debris, find a sink hole, lots of them around!

Your problem with costs is that the companies that do this work are all buddies with the politicians and make insane profits. DOD does not need to make profits. You also assume it is DOD doing this, it does not have to be and in fact would be an unlikely candidate.

Bloomberg could do a couple of these just on his personal wealth.

P

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by gariac

aquestion
I am not saying that we have intercontinental or even continental tunnels, I simply do not know; but, I do know that it is very possible and much less expensive then you assume.

Any thoughts as to the 'tunneled' underground Denver Airport area; its purpose and how it has slid under the radar of 98% of the populace happily transcoursing from one to another above it?

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Dear vethumanbeing,

I have no thoughts at all, I have no knowledge of those projects, nothing. I was at that airport once and only for about an hour. I have little if any to add to the conversation regarding that airport. The food was mediocre at the airport.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Dear vethumanbeing,

I have no thoughts at all, I have no knowledge of those projects, nothing. I was at that airport once and only for about an hour. I have little if any to add to the conversation regarding that airport. The food was mediocre at the airport.

Well Done.

Nuclear schmuclear.

We all know that stargate was a reality tv show pretending to be a sci-fi soap, so we know that they have the tau-ri technology to simply grow tunnels out of the silicate. They point the zappy thing at one spot, and the tunnel simply grows in the rock to where they want it, complete yo bedrooms and meeting room.

They got it from the aliens.

Nuclear doesn't even exist. It's a boogeyman invented by the powers that be to obfuscate the agenda and infer that there are bigger things to worry about than having a coke bottle lid in your river.

They wont admit to this, obviously. Which stands as 100% proof that it is a true account of how things are run, down there in the sandy deserts of New Pleiades. I mean, err, Mexico.

If the government deny it, just don't buy it.

reply to post by AQuestion


Awesome, I love it. The truth is we don't know much sometimes, it's good to admit it.

I think we all know the military use the Tok'ra's secret knowledge of crystal tunnels.

reply to post by darkbake


Dear darkbake,

Thank you so much for kind words. I do not know what I do not know, that is a fact. However, I know what I know and that is also the truth.

reply to post by gariac


I don't think it is infeasible the speaker may be wrong, but I bet there are these types of tunnels..USAF Bore

Longest known underground tunnel

Sub Tropolis

You would be suprised what is under you feet in some places...

Originally posted by DaRAGE
I think we all know the military use the Tok'ra's secret knowledge of crystal tunnels.

Gadzooks, It was Tok'ra .. not the Tau'ri.

Well there goes my SG1 badge out the window.

lol

reply to post by AQuestion


I didn't find a link to the Hyperion tunnel there, but I found this project:
UAE sewer

The tunnelling of section T-01 of the main tunnel is being carried out by Samsung C&T Corporation of South Korea. Three tunnel boring machines (TBMs) supplied by Kawasaki Heavy Industries are being used for the construction.

The tunnel is 41km long and 6.8 meters wide. Claimed cost is US $1.9 billion. That is a mere $80 million a mile. OK, not as wide as the Devils slide, and there is no issue of loss of life (just sewage), so standards could be reduced. They still used basic bore machines, not nukes. It is concrete lined.

I kind of doubt it can be this cheap. The project isn't finished, so I guess time will tell.

Regarding the nuclear TBM, it was never built as far as I can tell. They just melted a very small hole in some rock using electric power. They applied for a patent, but you don't need a working model for a patent. Rather all you need to do is describe the product/process well enough to convince the patent office that it could work.

reply to post by gariac


Dear gariac,

Hyperion Treatment Plant. As part of the project they bore a very large and long sewage tunnel, I believe the tunneling part was called North Outfall Replacement Sewer or NORS. The tunnel was 8 miles long and built in a relatively short time. I should mention that at the same time they were also building the subway in Los Angeles which is much more massive.

While I am certainly not an engineer, I met some of the people that worked on these projects. The people that do tunneling are true experts and a rather close knit group. As for the technology they used, it did not require any nuclear power. The pictures I saw showed something that looked like a large locomotive that did the drilling. Other projects that show what can be done include the big dig in Boston and the Chunnel in Europe. At one time the US had plans for a series of underground tunnels which were to hold trains carrying nuclear weapons so that the Soviets would never know where our warheads were.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by gariac

 

Other projects that show what can be done include the big dig in Boston and the Chunnel in Europe. At one time the US had plans for a series of underground tunnels which were to hold trains carrying nuclear weapons so that the Soviets would never know where our warheads were.

Carter Administration? correct me. It was thought to be ridiculous in concept; as submarines were/are the best platforms strategically for moving those weapons around, also Frigates, Destroyers, Aircraft Carriers..what else does the Navy have other than Troop carriers that wouldnt or couldnt potencially.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Dear vethumanbeing,

Carter Administration. It was thought to be ridiculous in concept; as submarines were/are the best platforms strategically for moving those weapons around, also Frigates, Destroyers, Aircraft Carriers..what else does the Navy have other than Troop carriers that wouldnt or couldnt potencially.

I certainly was not suggesting that we build them. I was merely pointing out that the technology exists. As for our defense approach, it was threefold (air, water and land based weapons).

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Dear vethumanbeing,

Carter Administration. It was thought to be ridiculous in concept; as submarines were/are the best platforms strategically for moving those weapons around, also Frigates, Destroyers, Aircraft Carriers..what else does the Navy have other than Troop carriers that wouldnt or couldnt potencially.

I certainly was not suggesting that we build them. I was merely pointing out that the technology exists. As for our defense approach, it was threefold (air, water and land based weapons).

Really do not need the land based at all (in country). SAC holding onto the northern border just in case Poseidon/Neptune decides to finally find and do away with Noah once and for all. The 52 Titan silos decomissioned in '83 was the big heads up.

reply to post by AQuestion


The MX missile program was abandoned. Er, kind of expensive to dig all those tunnels. ;-)

There are test structures for the program on the Nevada Test Site, though it was to be built in Utah. The NTS area is around 36.702536° -116.384963°