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Very interesting proposal

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posted on Mar, 23 2013 @ 03:00 AM
A rather interesting proposal by the Air Force has been issued. It calls for Aerospace Systems Efficiency Improvements for Legacy Aircraft. Specifically tanker/transport aircraft.

It seems pretty straight forward when you read it. It talks about blending certain join areas, tightening panels to close gaps between them, removing vortex generators that are no longer necessary, and some alterations to shaping on certain areas of wing. The entire process requires changes that can be made to the aircraft without a redesign taking place, and basically a bolt on change. It also allows for changes to the engines to make them more efficient.

Then there is a VERY interesting curveball thrown in. Included in the proposal is also the ability to make alterations to stall control/high lift devices, by making them deployable/deformable, methods for gust load alleviation, and various flow control devices. Even more interesting is that it also includes the addition of passive or active laminar flow control devices.

Then there's this tidbit thrown in:

One possibility is modernization of classic panel methods, to include nonlinear panels, tolerance of non-watertight geometries, parametric geometry definition for rapid analysis of alternatives, and lumped-parameter models of flow control devices. The latter might include flow-through panels to simulate fluidic flow control, or time-dependent body forces to simulate plasma flow control.

There has been talk from both the US and Russia about using plasma on aircraft for years, but nothing concrete has come out. One of the uses was for stealth, as the plasma would absorb all signals coming in and out. There is a very interesting thread on it here.

Is this the first concrete evidence that plasma is in use? Does this mean we might see it coming out of the dark soon? From what I've heard about it, if it was in use, the advantages would be immense, as it would allow for better range on the aircraft, as it would lead to less drag on the airframe.

This will be very interesting to watch in the next couple of years to see if this comes out into the white world.

posted on Mar, 23 2013 @ 03:15 AM
reply to post by Zaphod58

I have to ask

I always thought plasma was hot, really hot! Hot enough to melt an aircraft.
Plasma would light up an aircraft like nothing else to IR or heat seeking missiles.
It would be like saying, we are here, shoot us.

What am I not understanding.


posted on Mar, 23 2013 @ 03:18 AM
reply to post by pheonix358

You're thinking hot plasma, there is also cold plasma. Cold plasma can be near room temperature, and is used in the food and medical industries. That's what would be used here. There is also ultracold plasma as well.

The plasma also wouldn't touch the aircraft, from what I've read. It creates a sheath around the wing, without touching it. There was a lot of good information in the ATS thread about it.
edit on 3/23/2013 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 23 2013 @ 03:51 AM
reply to post by Zaphod58


I will read the thread! I just had visions of hot plasma around a fuel ladened tanker aircraft and thought Nah, not good!




posted on Mar, 23 2013 @ 04:44 AM

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Is this the first concrete evidence that plasma is in use?

My reading of that link is that was a proposal to model plasma flow control in software, by using "time-dependent body forces" ie: lets just stick some force = rand(t) stuff in there to simulate it.

Not so much an "in use", more of a "we wanna simulate cool stuff".

This solicitation aims at novel ways of applying existing concepts, or unique devices or material systems which enable improved aero performance.

And for those who were wondering if the plasma will burn up the aircraft body, the "plasma", although technically correctly named, should really be just called "weakly ionised air".
Get an AC voltage source of about 10kV... and errm.. well thats about it really.

posted on Mar, 23 2013 @ 10:44 AM
reply to post by alfa1

The fact that it's mentioned at all though is almost a breakthrough. This is the first time that I've ever seen any kind of confirmation that they even want to simulate the use of plasma on an aircraft. It's always been pure speculation about the use of it.

posted on Mar, 23 2013 @ 11:44 AM

There have also been claims that in 2002 the Russians tested a plasma stealth device on board a Su-27 and RCS was reduced by a factor of 100.

The Keldysh Research Center has created a plasma generator that weights no more than 100 kilos, thus making it possible to be fitted on board most tactical aircraft.

Russian plasma stealth fighters

According to the link
the Aircraft sheath plasma idea was published by the Russian News Agency in Jan 1999.

The theory is that it reduces the radar cross section of the aircraft,
but with one unique superbonus. It's active.
It has been developed to the point that it can make undetectable-to-radar things [color=gold] outside the aircraft.

There are four videos of aircraft at the link.
It all looks like old Russian stuff.

S&F for the thread.

Mike Grouchy

posted on Mar, 23 2013 @ 11:58 AM
My question is this,could a plasmatic field suspend particles or a forcefield sufficient enough to make an effective aeroform?
Wings and tails could be rendered obsolete from such a system I also wonder if older airframes could be rebuilt to a modern standard by altering the original airframe. A stealth F104( Love that plane)

posted on Mar, 23 2013 @ 12:06 PM
reply to post by Zaphod58

Is this what you and bedlam were talking about in that other thread?

posted on Mar, 23 2013 @ 10:19 PM
reply to post by mikegrouchy

Both Russia and the US have been working on the system since the 1980s or so, only Russia has admitted to it. The US made it black, and haven't said a word about it, but there is some evidence of some kind of system in use if you look in the right places, and put the jigsaw puzzle together.

reply to post by cavtrooper7

That's a good question. I'm not sure on that, but I don't think it can. As far as I know you have to have something for it to form along, so there would need to be a tail or a wing to shape it.

reply to post by Tajlakz

This is the proposal that was mentioned.

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