Severing Our Lifeline: The End of Electricity and Technology

reply to post by DrumsRfun


I agree with your previous post to mine. I just get upset when people come up and say massive amounts of the population would die off. I just don't believe that. Survival instinct will kick in, and everyone will be falling back on the roots of our existence. Which existed for millennium before electricity and running water! I just, don't think we give ourselves and our intelligence enough credit.

We survived it before, and if you teach your kids right, we will survive it again. It's that simple. Plant a garden this spring. Whether you live in the city or not. And share the excess with your neighbors. The local super market chains will be pissed with everyone, should everyone give it a shot.

It's that simple. To change everything. It's the collective small steps we make, that lead to real change. I have to believe that, for my own children's sake.

Peace,
Cirque

The possibility of your scenario becoming a reality is very real. If the economy crashes (and many say it is no longer a question of if, but, of when), power might very well be among the first things to go, along with the well stocked grocery store shelves we have all grown so dependent on.

I fear the the complacent and the unprepared in that situation. People don't have the self sustaining skills that they once did. Most people barely know how to garden, or hunt, or can/preserve food and they refuse to face the reality that our now comfy way of life could very well become a thing of the past.

They don't want to acknowledge the possibility, much less do any real preparation in the event that that possibility would somehow become reality. They are too busy with their iPhone, their favorite TV show or the constant struggle it is these days to keep their heads above water and a roof over their heads.

If that day should come, when the lights go out and store shelves go bare, I don't want to look at my children and tell them I have nothing to feed them when I had plenty of time to prepare, but chose not to.

I don't think most people are aware of just how precarious things are (in many ways) and how little it would take to push us right over the tipping point and into a situation where we are left to fend for ourselves.

I don't want to get my tinfoil hat out at the moment (because we could be adding all sorts of scary information here), but, the possibility is horrifyingly real.

I will not be caught unprepared. Will you?

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Could we survive?

Yeah. Humanity could survive. Culture would go through a period of communitas in which social structures and institutions are torn down. But during periods of communitas and liminality, paranormal phenomenon spike. During such periods the paranormal can no longer be marginalized by social mechanisms and structures and bureaucracy. Countless people would be awakened. We would evolve. Finally.

Then we would learn that there is nothing technology can do for us that our collective psychic ability can't do better.

Interesting post.

Some people would relearn how to do the things that are necessary to survive.

People in big cities would be screwed. I think that if we didn't have electricity and/or fuel to run our machines, we could not have the population that we currently have.

If you look back about 100 years, most people lived on farms, not in the cities. Farms were farm more labor intensive and far less productive then today.

People would survive, but many would not

Originally posted by Wildbob77
Interesting post.

Some people would relearn how to do the things that are necessary to survive.

People in big cities would be screwed. I think that if we didn't have electricity and/or fuel to run our machines, we could not have the population that we currently have.

If you look back about 100 years, most people lived on farms, not in the cities. Farms were farm more labor intensive and far less productive then today.

People would survive, but many would not

Ya. Lots of people ignore the huge productivity gains from machines and pesticides and coal power and so on. These things allow us to have a population in the billions. If suddenly we lost them, the planet could not have billions of people on it. Most of them would have to die.

I think I read that our planet can only support 500 million hunter/gatherers. (i just read that "hunter" is a misnomer. in the equatorial regions the gathering is considerably greater.)

It's part of the sad state of things. We either cut off huge portions of the population and let them die or we keep going down this dangerous road we're on. AGW and nukes and so on.

We will forever change our planet, but we can't really go back now. The only way I can foresee us going back is if it's forced by nature. So all those people would be killed by circumstance. For example, if an asteroid struck the planet and wiped out 80% or more of the population. But even then we would still have electricty and other things. But many would probably not have it. We would still have our satellites in orbit. Man, I don't know how to say it. WE CAN'T GO BACK.

It's like wishing you could be younger. Or wishing you had a time machine.

Look, the best you can hope for is in the green movement. Families across the country are learning how to put up solar panels and how to recycle and how to farm even. They're learning how to decentralize. They're learning how to be more sustainable. But the green movement can't make the earth stay as it's. The earth will change along with us. We can't go back...

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Could we survive?

Yeah. Humanity could survive. Culture would go through a period of communitas in which social structures and institutions are torn down. But during periods of communitas and liminality, paranormal phenomenon spike. During such periods the paranormal can no longer be marginalized by social mechanisms and structures and bureaucracy. Countless people would be awakened. We would evolve. Finally.

Then we would learn that there is nothing technology can do for us that our collective psychic ability can't do better.

edit on 22-3-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Humanity could survive, but in rival communities. Bad guys with guns & ammo will hunt good guys and you'lll see fiction becoming reality. Crime would escalate, go sky high, a real survival of the fittest. It will be a reversion to barbarism. This has happened so many times in human history. Our world would go centuries back, almost overnight.

Here's a relevant article:
www.economist.com - Hunter-gatherers: Noble or savage?...

Evolution doesn't mean rainbows and butterflies. Many of us will die.

But I agree with it. Humans, for better or worse, always push the limits.

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Those of us on farms with firearms and expertise will RULE THE WORLD! MWA HA HA!

What will you do when bullets run out??

There is a difference between surviving and sustaining...having bullets is sustaining until they run out.
Learn without it...our ancestors could do it...are we that different that we can't??
From what I read on this site about people with their guns....i think its a bad mentality.

Well, I also grew up with a bow, and a cane pole. I have lots of reloading supplies. And the Army, at least, thought I could use a knife in a scrum, although that's sort of last resorty.

I can plow with mules, just don't like it. I know how to tack and saddle a horse, keep bees, also how to do most animal husbandry. I can do my own horseshoes if I've got an anvil, a forge and the iron stock, although I haven't done farrier work since I was a kid. I know how and when to plant for food crops.

I also know what I can eat in the woods, at least for the area.

But most of all, I can make whiskey and beer. I figure I'll use it for trade goods, you guys can do all the hunting.

eta: I also have a couple of black powder rifles and ball molds, I can make bullets out of tire weights or lead shot if I have to, and push come to shove, I suspect I could figure out how to make black powder eventually. I know the basics, modern black powder is a bit more complex than saltpeter, charcoal and sulfur.

But if you don't have game and fish to worry with, you can trap deer by various means, it's just not sporting. A neckbreaker deadfall trap with peanut butter is pretty straightforward, as is a treble hook with an apple on it.

Imagine living in a high-rise apartment with not even a balcony or an area to light an open fire, smack dab in the middle of a massive concrete jungle. Now imagine having to search for potable water amongst miles and miles of concrete. Now imagine trying to lug those buckets of water back to your apartment up 15 flights of stairs. Eventually those supplies would dwindle and you'd have to travel further and further out to find more.

Millions of people live in this type of situation worldwide.

They have complete 100% dependency on the powergrid and the continuum of an operable world going on below them at the street level.

Millions of them.

And hundreds of thousands of them living right next door to your backyard city garden...

Not a pretty thought.

There's a reason why we have to lock our doors at night, and it sure as hell isn't because everyone is all lovey dovey with each other, sharing and caring.

The ugly reality is that we really do live in a dog eat dog world for the most part.

Some of us are lucky enough to live in areas where this isn't the case. But just reading the daily news is enough to taint even the most optimistic of persons and wake them to the reality that this comfort and security we think we live in is just one major disaster away from disappearing in a heartbeat.

Originally posted by mclinking

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Could we survive?

Yeah. Humanity could survive. Culture would go through a period of communitas in which social structures and institutions are torn down. But during periods of communitas and liminality, paranormal phenomenon spike. During such periods the paranormal can no longer be marginalized by social mechanisms and structures and bureaucracy. Countless people would be awakened. We would evolve. Finally.

Then we would learn that there is nothing technology can do for us that our collective psychic ability can't do better.

edit on 22-3-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Humanity could survive, but in rival communities. Bad guys with guns & ammo will hunt good guys and you'lll see fiction becoming reality. Crime would escalate, go sky high, a real survival of the fittest. It will be a reversion to barbarism. This has happened so many times in human history. Our world would go centuries back, almost overnight.

So? I mean you seem to be saying all that as if it contradicts what I said. It doesn't. What you describe is just the beginning stage of major communitas.

This time, say no to regressing if anything happens. We must build friction heaters, that generate instant steam almost, and have some back up power, ie. solar panel, even home made soda can ones, and windmills, and or parabolic mirrors, fresnel lenses. Things that generate heat arent a big problem, for heat can be turned into electricity with stirling engines. Even soda can ones, if you make 30-50 can turn out kilowatts. Don't think negative. People can pool up their tools and build.

Homes are easier than the huge wooden ones we do, you can rebuild out of dirtbags, or paper mache, or bales of hay, clay, or plant resins, ie mixutres of hemp, corn husk, lime, or clay, mud. So the power is the big thing. Diesel engines will run an any kind of oil and people can do things out of the box for a change with their garages and tools.

Aquaponics.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Explanation: S&F!

Ok ... I'm do this naked! Yes youd did read that correctly ok!

Here is why ...

Ok so in my minds eye I'm only wearing my birthday suit [sexy for my gf ] and now by fiat and hand of god I shall mentally transport and transpose myself to the random outback loccation of Australia [aka NW Western Australia where I have never set foot upon that blessed earth ... where everything will kill you (eventually) and plonk .. there I go ... butt naked in the bush getting jiggy with my memories of dreamtimes like the aborigines do when they have to walk and wander along the songlines!

18°36'07.07" S 126°25'53.10" E ... Ok that is a significant landmark to my laymans eyes and so thats a good place to at least start observing my natural surroundings for what they can offer me and what I can exploit to my own benefits etc.

Now that area is quite rocky and is higher than the surrounding landscape and so makes a great place to view from since it has great views with some height to give a better perspective of whats out towards the horizons and its clear from a lot of things that like to live in the undergrowth and the bare rocks make it easy to see what occupies that zone.

However I am barefooted and I am very aware that granite rock heats up to blistering temperatures so I won't be walking on it until I have checked that specifically to make sure it is safe to do so and a simple touch test with my fingers on the surface of the rock will detail that for me in great textural sensations.

But it is also very early morning in that part of Australia and I am quite confident that the rocks would be cool to the touch at this time of day etc.

So I simply look at the various rocks available to me with say reasonable and comfortable eye sight and walking distances away ... and being mindfull of hidden and or lurking wildlife I go to the nearest rock with the least hassles getting there and getting it safely in my grasp.

Good ... now i have a basic tool to start more finer and detailed work with.

I look around in the immediate vacinity for some long grasses so that I can cut some bundles using my new found rock of awesomeness and start weaving myself some clothes, footwear, bag/accessories, hat, string, rope, blanket/rug, pillow etc.

I start on my footwear 1st. I weave some hay/straw/grass shoots together in a simple left over right fashion as I have no time to be pedantic or fuss over the finer points of weaving and braiding etc. ... and when I have say 8 x 18inch long weaved strawstrings I can start to fashion the beginings of some simple straw sandals etc.

I can also quikly weave up some more strawstrings and fashion myself a manely thong for underwear convienience, comfort and mainly for my bruised ego and wounded pride for ending up out in the bush naked ok and also for decencies sake if nothing else as it is the thought that does count even if it is frivolous and or abjectly pathetic and impractical but I will still gave it a go because I have not much to loose by trying it and I might gain some peace of my cityscape societal driven mind.

So inventory check ...

Tools:

1 rock [handsized or smaller .. most possibly granite in substance and origins]

Straw/hay to make more strawstring and then weave/braid those strawstrings into a longer and far more robust plant fiber rope to help me make and secure my survival in this weird non existential kind of post apocalyptic make believe story.

Clothes:

Strawstring Secured Straw Sandals 1 pair.

Strawstring Letting It All Hang OutBack, Whilst Going Naked On Walkabout, In the Outback ... Manely Thing Thong Custom "Why aren't you wearing any ...

" Strawman Argument Underwear!

Next up ... I still keep weaving my clothes as they ARE my most immediate shelter.

I do however make the following general observations as I go about my tinker tailor business ...

The general direction of the sun and whther it is rising or setting and that may take a few minutes to determine fully. As it is rising in the east I will make an arbitrary assumption that it is about 6-7am in the morning.

The general direction of the dark side of the planet and any stars and constellations I can immediately determine by eyesight alone. I seek Orion or Scorpio or much better still is the Southern Cross.

The general direction of the lay of the land and I am looking for rocky outcrops ... large trees and or vegetation cumping together and finally riverbeds, gullies and streams ... and which way and to where any water would shed off the landscape towards and then Id carefully look the other direction and deeply assess about what is upstream. I specifically note the 3 main places I think I will easy find and obtain water from.

Continued next..

reply to post by smyleegrl

Explanation: Continued from previous post ...

I note the 3 highest landmarks in all 4 quadrants and i guestimate distance and general altitude above the lowest points i can see in each of those 4 quadrants.

If I can scribble in the dirt and make a temporary map to help reinforce and remind my mental map then I do so immediately.

I maintain the rest of my early morning looking out for the wildlife and where it comes from and where it is going to and the obvious and or other possible whys for them doing that ... and if I can do so easily I make notes of those things also on my temporary map made in the dirt and dust as I go from dawn towards dusk in a shtf flow.

I need ...

Moist clay to act as a base ingredient in all of my near future pottery making endevours.

Plus molding clay into various tools is an easy obvious choice and I am specifically hoping to be able to construct a fire piston to make fire starting less of a chore but failing that at least I will have stuff to make a plate bowl and cup to eat off of if I actually manefist some food on the table for dinner tonight [in this dreamworld ok].

A clay container once fired and if treated properly [may reuire a glaze to make it completly non-pourous] may make water collectioon and storage far easier

Clay tablets for better or worse are the easiest form of writting anything down in any permanant fashion and so a stylus [wooden and and carefully carved and ground into shape using the rocks available] and some fresh moist clay that can be minded and manufactured into say handsized claynotepads.exe!

Clay is a great sunscreen.

Some clays are important medicines and also fillers for medicinal pills [instead of wax].

More strawstring and more plant fiber rope.

A better rock and more varied types of rocks ... specifically .. fist size pounding stone and either a flat slab like rock to grind and pound against ... or a suitable place on the large granite rocky outcrop that I am standing almost butt naked [got my thing thong on now

] upon during sunrise (brings new meaning to morning glory :shk: ], for food preparation ... specifically the grinding of grass seed grains ... which I would already be aware of the availablity of such things as I am weaving and cutting grass as a second priority upon my survial list of things I must do to adapt, overcome and survive any and all circumstances I may find myself in.

Then generally any rock that has an edge exposed will suffice for any and all current cutting jobs [at least until I find some wood to whttle and grind into some tools] and I am only going to state this onc ... it is not what you have ..it is what you do with what you have that counts ok.

Any and all wood regardless of conditions it is in.

Grab a stick and simply sharpen one end and that will do for the time being until I can make a fire and fire harden the short spears sharpened tip and or manufacture several other important wooden tools such as a simple knife, a simple long thick walking stick [which I can also use as a personal yoke if I add some strawstring weaved baskets to each end

] , a few spears and a spear thrower [aka a woomera] and finally I would make an atlatl thowing stick with a mind for designing it with more mass for maximum kinetic contact takedown performance characteristics.. One spear would be short and used mainly for digging whereever I need to dig a hole for any reason and mostly It would be for toilet enforced biobreaks and because it doesnt touch my waste effluent material since it only digs the hole which I fill in by pushing the dirt back in by hand [look for worms also ...may be a food source and may be an agricultural soil fertility indicator species.... also one never know when and where one will possibly find an oopart/ out of place artifact], I can then safely use that same stick without the need for any kind of ritual cleansing of the sacred digging spade-spear stick .. to go dig up yams and tubers and honey ants and a fire pit and many more uses far to many to detail even comprehensively let alone simply.

Just know this ... Do not engage in useless activities and also, from learning one simple thing, you also learn many complex things as one speculates how things work and go togther or stand apart ... and that leads ones mind to confabulate and imagine how it may apply and possibly work in other settings etc.

For example I will use the example in my tale I told above in which I adapted any rock with an exposed edge as a cutting impliment as long as it also fitted into my hand handily.

Continued next post below ...

edit on 22-3-2013 by OmegaLogos because: Edited to alter 'use' into 'useless' .

reply to post by smyleegrl


Explanation: Continued from previous post ...

It is definately a Rock ... but it has got several dual use modes and although it is limited in nature to being just a rock for now [wait until I start building a forge and smelting rocks for metal ores etc. ] it is not as limited in the scope of what it can do and what its specific talents can achieve in the hands of right skilled and or naturally gifted handyman.

Ok so the rock has an exposed edge ... what the hell does that actually mean?

Generally it is just an inclined plane and is the most simple of the 6 most simple machines ever invented by anyone anywhere ever and we owe these greatly seperating and filtering out the unrequired offcut material kind of tools based in the workable reality of physics and what we know about the real world aka Mother Nature and how some basic operations and functions underpin the entire cinematic experience we call life.

Specifically it is the vital part of lever and its edge is the fulcrum [of power application] over which what ever material is overlayiong that fulcrum is acted upon and the rock has a specific density hence hardness on the Mohs scale of hardness [i.e. chalk is low number ranked level of hardness and diamond is a high number ranked level of hardness ... note a stone type will always cut/mark/score itself, if but poorly or slowly etc.]

So the rocky edge exposed stone fulcrum aka an inclined plane aka a wedge, with a far higher Mohs level than say skin or animal fur and leather hides, is able to physically get in between the fibers down at an atomic electrochemical nanosized scale bonding and literally via a sudden change in the microscopic worlds physical topology between the 2 surfaces when the stones fulcum is suddenly dragged across the lower density and hense hardrness [resistance to change] scale material ... the atoms of both materials get hooked up against each other and the presssure and temperatures skyrocket and this can even involve a change in that materials visable optical frequency output [hence metal hardening has to happen at a specific colour range as it emits different wavelengths under extreme physical conditions for its scale scope and size.]!

Push gives way to Shove and the rock beats the paper thin skin and cuts/snaps/breaks those electrochemical bonds and that energy that is released via that physical process that takes place purely by proximity and orientation with each other ... in the form of light [mainly heat but can be other wavelengths also] and sound and finally acting to physically unbind and divide by seperation spatially of what is on one side of the inclined plane wedge rock tool from what is located in 3d space time on the otherside of the inclined plane wedge rock tool from a singular view set in the 4th dimension whcih is clearly the partial dimension we all experience and call the Flow Of Time aka the timestream etc.

The above can be simplified from a thousand or more words down to the simple visual concept of a stone axe ok.



How to Make a Stone Axe Head
[ehow.com]

How to Make a Stone Ax [ehow.com]


How to make a stone axe/celt [flintknapper.com]

Personal Disclosure: I hope you all have enjoyed my tales journey for the past three highly and heavily detailed posts. I hope to carry on and continue my tale at a later date when I have refreshed my mindseye and recouperated some shuteye and recovered my barings and relaxed my tired baked half naked body and no I am not talking about the ghost in the shell that I am leaving in the outback out far west in the dreamtime.for this storys wide ranging and far reaching walkabout and talkabout effects.

I hope this affects all my fellow members to realize that knowledge is power ... power apllied properly works well ok.

To reiterate the very basics ...

Do NOT engage in useless activities.

And ...

From learning one simple thing, one can sudenly know many things!

reply to post by smyleegrl


Well, I guess I am a prepper without really trying to be. You see in our suburban neighborhood, the electricity has gone out enough times for us to purchase a generator. The kind of generator that senses when the electricity has gone out and will turn on automatically. I love it, it was worth the buy.

We also have a well and because our well water tastes so bad, we have a good water filtration system.

I have always stored extra food in the pantry, because in the 1960's, when I was a little girl, we had ferocious snowstorms. My mother always stocked up, and taught me to do the same thing.

I guess it is a prepper start, for this non-prepper..

I for one would welcome the opportunity to go back to our roots and live in harmony with nature. I am no survivalist expert by any means, but all it takes is common sense and the will to survive.

As for the TPTB killing us off I think there are better ways they could do it such as an airborne nano-virus which only they have the antidote for. A total crash of the economy is more likely than the disruption of world-wide power and the only way I see that happening is with a magnetic pole flip. Even then, I don't think it would take people too long to restore power.

Technology is still a fairly new thing and advancing at a rapid rate, give it a few more years and problems like this will be overcome. Power-plants the size of a battery? EMP shielded components? who knows.

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth


You should be as proud of yourself, it takes a good parent to instill good morales, and behavior, work ethics.
The knowledge of living off the land is like teaching a man to fish.....you know how that goes...

I see a day in our future where no one has to work. Robots will do all the work. Flying Drones. Etc. The technology already exists.

I think at that time, your contribution to society will be earning an education.

reply to post by smyleegrl


You know, I think what you are talking about OP has happened before in the past to technological societies that were here before us. Maybe several times to many civilizations. According to mainstream science, humanity has been around for 250,000 years. Look how far we have come in the last 5,000 years. I don't believe that we were spearchuckers and cavemen for the 245,000 years before that. Suppose something like what you state were to happen and humanity went back to the stone age practically overnight. In 5000 years there would be nothing left of the giant cities and such that are a part of our modern society. It would be gone to dust. And that's probably a conservative estimate. I can garden and hunt and fish. I cannot however build a cellphone, or a microwave or a TV, or most of the things that people take for granted every day. Who could? Interesting topic. SnF.

A good chunk of the world would hardly miss electricity and life would go on as somewhat normal.

I'm America we would be screwed, well a good 80% would be. 20% would live on...