Originally posted by marg6043

Every time I see a demon look like spirit all I do is ask him to show his true self get what! is nothing more that what we want to see, if you really believe in a satan or demon it will come to you and it will show to you they way you want it to be.

But is not real and it has never been real, I know people that spend their life thinking about death and hell when is not real, heaven is a place where souls gather after their human and earth experiences were we all go, liberate yourself from the mind made and church made satan and fulfill your role on earth, because after you finish is a better place to go and that place is home, and you can call it heaven.

I know what you're saying and I'm sure it's true for you, however the reason for my encounters was I didn't believe in anything beyond the human realm. I dared whatever existed be it Zeus, Satan, etc. to show itself and I would believe. I got my answer but not the way I expected. When a person encounters the Devil, there is no doubt. None, whatsoever whether you believe in him or not. Had I been smart about it, I would have looked for God first. It would've saved me a lot of pain. I don't expect anyone to believe me hence the lack of detail. Most people have to experience these things for themselves. Myself included.

It sounds as if you learned something positive from the experience.

You can take credit for THAT much. Many do not "get it."

Good for you.

Originally posted by saint4God
I know what you're saying and I'm sure it's true for you, however the reason for my encounters was I didn't believe in anything beyond the human realm. I dared whatever existed be it Zeus, Satan, etc. to show itself and I would believe. I got my answer but not the way I expected. When a person encounters the Devil, there is no doubt. None, whatsoever whether you believe in him or not. Had I been smart about it, I would have looked for God first. It would've saved me a lot of pain. I don't expect anyone to believe me hence the lack of detail. Most people have to experience these things for themselves. Myself included.

I've asked God to show himself to me dozens of times with no effect. What gives?

Zip

God did not 'show' himself to me either when I asked for proof. It took some praying to get out of my situation and believing. The fact that the Devil had no problems showing himself had me thinking there must be an absolute good that could get me away from him. God doesn't want to prove himself, God wants you to believe first, then reveals in every way besides visual sight. After seeking help, I was adviced to pray to God saying I wanted to serve only him, ask for sins to be forgiven, and accept Jesus Christ as saviour. I'd heard all this before but found myself again in dire situation so I gave it a try. That was it. I can't describe what happens other than to say I was changed completely. God wants us to use our free will to choose him, to come to him. If he were to 'control' people there would be no point to people at all.

Originally posted by Zipdot

I've asked God to show himself to me dozens of times with no effect. What gives?

Zip

I have, is no a "god" but a force a light energy, and when you are there you know it you recognice it and you don't question it and is many others and you know that is home and that is where you belong, where we all belong.

Is not but a feeling of well being and a feeling that I will never be able to put in words is just a feeling.

That is why I can not rely on the teachings of religion anymore because from my experiences it will never make sence anymore, religion is so human
so primal.

Yes I know I have been there and I have seen it, is very real.

[edit on 023030p://222 by marg6043]

Most likely the people that make it to heaven do not want to do anything other that what is good in thier heart anyways. B/c god is love and god knows all and god made us he knows the people he made good and the people that he made bad. So all the people that he made good are going to heaven and all the people he made bad are going to go TO HELL. So if you are bad and you feel it I think you should maybe go ahead and be really really bad. Why not be bad all the time you are going to go to hell anyways ? Right .. ?? So why even ask these questions you have no chance of making it to heaven. Why do you care / I am tired ... of people asking questions that are only put in peoples mind to create ditubance.

lets get back on topic OK

Originally posted by Jonna
I think that the christian reponce would be something to the effect of those that made it into heaven would never choose to sin in the first place. That would be one way to get around the freewill issue.

But that is all that they are doing is trying to get around it. Saying you will have free will but wont want to, is in fact saying you cant. You cant say God wants us to have free will because we will be spending eternity without it.

If we do have free will you know that sooner or later we will "sin" and have to be punished.

The second question is important too, if after a few short years here on earth we will spend the rest of eternity without free will what was the point to begin with? You cant say God is testing us because he already knew the answer before he gave us the test.

What is the purpose of giving us a choice to sin here and then taking away that choice in heaven? Why bother? Why not just take it away to begin with so that billions of souls dont burn in hell forever?

Originally posted by bet555
Most likely the people that make it to heaven do not want to do anything other that what is good in thier heart anyways. B/c god is love and god knows all and god made us he knows the people he made good and the people that he made bad. So all the people that he made good are going to heaven and all the people he made bad are going to go TO HELL.

So God made people bad? Are you saying that god made some people JUST to send them to hell? Your statement says that you have no choice that god either created yo to go to heaven or hell and you have nothing to do with it. This presents an ewven BIGGER waste of time why not just create the GOOD ones to begin with.

It would be like having 5 kids an saying I am gonna give 2 of them everything that I can to make there life good and I am gonna torture the other 3.

So why even ask these questions you have no chance of making it to heaven. Why do you care / I am tired ... of people asking questions that are only put in peoples mind to create ditubance.

I am really sorry should I U2U all my posts to you first to make sure you like them before I post? If you dont like the question dont answer it. Nobody asked you to come to this thread to begin with.

Originally posted by saint4God
The fact that the Devil had no problems showing himself had me thinking there must be an absolute good that could get me away from him.

Hmm... So you really witness the Devil? Pray tell more about this encounter.

Again, it's probably something someone would have to experience to believe. The Devil too, wanted me to decide, to use my free will to choose him but he was very impatient - "If all you need to believe is seeing then here I am!". He wanted the answer, told me I was running out of time, etc... My demand for answers and the idea that 'seeing is believing' made me easy prey.

Free will in heaven: Example - Will you be having chocolate ice-cream or vanilla? Both are good, both are choices.



[edit on 2-11-2004 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Free will in heaven: Example - Will you be having chocolate ice-cream or vanilla? Both are good, both are choices.
[edit on 2-11-2004 by saint4God]

But how about stealing the OTHER guys pie?

Originally posted by Amuk
The post about freewill got me to thinking what about after we die?

Can we still sin in heaven or will freewill be taken away once we get there?

Are we allowed to have freewill here just to be turned into a robot once we die?

If we will still have freewill what is to keep us from turning heaven into the same crap we have earth?

In other words can we sin in heaven? What would happen then? whould we go to hell?

I don't think it is a matter of "free will", I think it is a matter of perfect will. Satan chose not adhere to the thrown of God, I think we will be given that same type of free will. However, wouldn't you think that if that were the case getting into Heaven will be a lot harder than some people think? It's really God knowing your heart and where your heart lies in perfect will - wanting to chose what is good all the time, not just to suit ourselves. Pour me another cup of coffee

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by saint4God

Free will in heaven: Example - Will you be having chocolate ice-cream or vanilla? Both are good, both are choices.
[edit on 2-11-2004 by saint4God]

But how about stealing the OTHER guys pie?

Yeah, that would be bad cause it's not nice (stealing). I doubt there's going to be a lack of pie in heaven though

What if I don't like pie unless I'm licking it off a naked woman's body?

While we're on the subject, why is sex sinful? They say animals can't sin -- but they sure can knock boots! I've seen ducks have sex and the male duck practically drowns the female duck while in action - it's kinda brutal. This seems like a sex crime to me. Is the duck sinning because he likes it rough?

Zip

I think people are still capable of sin while in heaven. Some of the Angels in Heaven once rebelled. That would be the story of the Fall of Lucifer. If Angels can sin in Heaven then why wouldn't humans and all other creatures be capable of it as well. Sin is not something purely caused by Satan. He just gives it a push forward.