It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Is there free will in Heaven?

page: 1
0
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 06:59 PM
link   
The post about freewill got me to thinking what about after we die?

Can we still sin in heaven or will freewill be taken away once we get there?

Are we allowed to have freewill here just to be turned into a robot once we die?

If we will still have freewill what is to keep us from turning heaven into the same crap we have earth?

In other words can we sin in heaven? What would happen then? whould we go to hell?




posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 07:52 PM
link   
I guess nobody else knows either


I didnt want to sidetrack LadyVs thread so I started a different one.

It is something I have wondered for a while. I dont see a "right" answer.

If you do then you can sin and screw up in heaven thereby esarning some kind of punishment. If this one was true then heaven would slowly disappear as people screwed up and went to hell till EVERYONE was in hell.

If you cant then your freewill has been taken away, so why have it for a few short years just to spend eternity as a robot?



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 07:52 PM
link   
well this subject is very hard to understand and to answer but i could think of it this way. There will be no sin, there will be no inclination or direction leading towards negative emotions. I guess thats a good way to explain it...but you're right one could say we're really kinda of slaves to God's will in Heaven. But we do get some freedoms just not as many as you would get here...but when you're in heaven you really dont think about that. you think gee this place is way better than getting my ass hairs cindered off in hell



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 07:55 PM
link   
So you are saying that we lose the ability to choose in heaven? If we are to spend eternity as slaves why give us freewill to begin with?



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 08:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by Amuk
I guess nobody else knows either



I have to admit since you started the thread I've actually been thinking about though...


Heaven is supposed to be this perfect paradise - where you are content and at peace. Personally, I like a little mischief, a little spice to my life - would that even be allowed? If you retain your free agency and choose to exercise it (whoopi cushion under St. Peter's chair) - will god turn you out?

Guess the truth of the matter is - those who know can't say.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 08:05 PM
link   
If you take the words of the Bible literally than you would believe that there is free will in Heaven. Reason being, "Satan" chose to defy God of his own free will. If there was no free will, it would have never happened.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 08:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by infinite8
If you take the words of the Bible literally than you would believe that there is free will in Heaven. Reason being, "Satan" chose to defy God of his own free will. If there was no free will, it would have never happened.



But then EVERYONE screws up. So after a while heaven would be empty right?



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 08:16 PM
link   
That's EASY!

In your dreams--while your body is dormant and your spirit is escaping upward to higher dimensions--can't you go and do absolutely ANYTHING that your spirit even visualizes or contemplates?

Of course you can!

There are NO LIMITS in Heaven. So, it can get very boring ... all the same same stuff. After all, anything you can conceive of, is what you manifest instantly before your eyes. Heaven is a HOLODECK.

Sure. Seventy virgins. Streets paved with gold. Orchards that produce on demand--WHATEVER YOU CAN DREAM UP--right before your eyes.

That's why spirits come here, incarnate a humans and experience cause-and-effect--so they have some HARD LIMITS to buck up AGAINST and learn from.

Now, the Cosmos are another matter; the Cosmos [space] consolidates and vivifies experience with Cause-and-effect, with miracles, with Group Think and ideological boundaries, with visualizing a reality that is beyond your ability to command; and with the possibility of an endless, Eternal Death-by-dissipation. The Cosmos are TRULY scary.

Really.

Chai



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 08:17 PM
link   
Amuk I will tell you how heaven is like,

Its a place in which we all remember as home after we die, is a place in which the souls recuperate and get united with their favorite friends, is a place in which we remember all our past lives and share our experiences with other souls.

Heaven is our real home and a place in which we are neither female nor males even when sometimes we keep the sex we prefer as humans.

Heaven is also a place in which we plan and chose whom we are going to live and share experiences in the next live.

Also we have to meet our guides and higher rank souls to review our last life and to see what we could have done better.

Also we are not sent to hell or are punished for human mistakes you know why Amuk because once we take away our human skin we are perfect just like our creator.

No, I am not afraid to die, actually no body should earth life is a burden and a task that we all have to endure to become better beings and to grow from our experiences.

You ask if we have free will, yes we do remember we may belong to the same source but we keep our independence

See, this is my interpretation of heaven and I just know.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 09:01 PM
link   
think about what happens after a major war.

The soldiers that are in the middle of the battle, that see their friends blown to bits, with memories of how brutal humans are to each other, never ever want to have to go to war again.

You ask an old digger and they will always tell you how brutal and evil a war is. Now these guys know what war is like right? They have experienced it first hand. They don't need to join another war to remember how bad it is and how they really dont want to fight. It is etched into their memory.

Heaven is no different. People will remember the corruption that takes place when you decide not to listen to God. They would never want to choose this life again. Because of that they are allowed to live in this perfect environment (heaven). I believe in heaven, we will not be caught up in this huge conflict to be evil, because it will not be part of our personalities any more.

I think the choices we have will be a little different.. like deciding what galaxy to travel to, or what amazing planet we get to explore.. or possibly just surfing the perfect wave. Oh, and if you think that heaven is exciting, wait till we get to go to the new earth!


I'm pathetic at putting things into words, so I hope you can understand where I am coming from



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 09:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
Heaven is a HOLODECK.





posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 09:30 PM
link   
Is there free will in heaven?
Since heaven dosnt exist there can be no free will.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 09:37 PM
link   
My take on the subject is simple.

If you believe or adhere to the Christian concept of heaven, then it belies a predetermined belief that you are inclined toward the 'creation theory'. We were created for perfect communion with God, and were created perfect. In heaven, we will again be in the perfect form we were originally created in, and the sinful nature that was brought upon us by the original sin will be gone. Since Heaven has no devil in it, or evil in it, the temptation will be gone. Therefore, the desire to sin, in light of everything we will have at our disposal, the compulsion to sin will simply not exist.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 09:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by everlastingnoitall
My take on the subject is simple.

If you believe or adhere to the Christian concept of heaven, then it belies a predetermined belief that you are inclined toward the 'creation theory'. We were created for perfect communion with God, and were created perfect. In heaven, we will again be in the perfect form we were originally created in, and the sinful nature that was brought upon us by the original sin will be gone. Since Heaven has no devil in it, or evil in it, the temptation will be gone. Therefore, the desire to sin, in light of everything we will have at our disposal, the compulsion to sin will simply not exist.



I was typing those exact words until I scrolled down a bit and saw this. No need for a double post. Good explaination!



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 10:13 PM
link   
Emily and Marg I tend to agree with your posts.

When we enter Heaven some how all of our egos are gone, left behind, along with the pain and filth of this realm.

I was just thinking today about free will in Heaven, interesting. But I keep coming back to the thought that Heaven must be intertwined with this "dimension" in some way. Because when I go to Heaven, if I have knowledge of my family (which I know I will) Heaven wont be Heaven without them. There is no amount of beautiful things that will ever replace my family. But then again, maybe our spirit is projected to heaven to the ones we have lost and love and maybe that is the form of communication "up there".....just thinking how it could work.

Actually someone said none of us would want to come back here. I disagree, too much of a good thing will get boring. Being back in the physical body as difficult as it can be will be refreshing after awhile up there. I would think if we have free will that a stimulus to that would be challenge, right? Well in my perception Heaven is probably not much of a challenge but rather a rejuvenation of the soul. Now the earth is a definate challenge.

Actually when you think about it, what a plan, what balance, the circle of life as God knows it. A continual growth and development process that never ceases. Yet a harmony that we all go back to! Looks like we need to fill many shoes before we are even close to the image of God, dont ya think?



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 10:21 PM
link   
Heaven is the ultimate paradise, where total and complete happiness lies. It is an eternal reward for those who have chosen to follow God.

All through life, we search for happiness, love, joy.....Heaven is eternal happiness, eternal joy, eternal love.

Scripture says that "eye has not seen, ear has not heard, what God has in store for those who love him". Heaven will be the most exciting and fantastic existence you could ever have.

Man can dream up all kinds of entertainment, imagine what kind of entertainment God can provide!!!

There will never be a dance or party on earth, that will ever equal rejoicing in Heaven.

and YES, there is free will in Heaven. You've chosen to be good, pure and holy, you've made the eternal choice. Your will in Heaven is united to the will of God. Your love with him will be so complete, you will never desire to offend or disobey him, but have chosen to be with him, to be good, to be holy, to be pure, to be eternally happy, and feel the love only God can give to his creation.

Earth is where we make our choices to sin, or not to sin. If you made it to Heaven, you will never sin again. You'll be eternally rewarded, forever.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 10:57 PM
link   
No Sin, No Satan in Heaven. The accuser of the brethren will finally be cast into the Lake of Fire where we will never hear from him again. No more deceptions, lies or evil of any kind.
It is here on the earth where we prove our worthiness to allow us entrance to Heaven. There has always been, and always will be "Free Will" the only difference is "SIN" will not be an option, as the Tempter will have been banished forever "Oh Happy Day"
If you can't Love God and your Brothers down here on the earth, you won't get a chance to do it in Heaven.
The Earth is the proving ground, If you want to be in Heaven for an Eternity, you must first learn to Love and worship God here.
It will be a sad day for those that did not believe in God and the Bible, and the saddest part is that they will not be able to come back and change things.

As the word of God has said "The Fool Hath Said That There Is No God "



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 11:03 PM
link   
So yall are saying once in heaven you CAN NOT sin? If it is not an option then what was the point in having it here? If after here you will go somewhere where you CANT sin?

You cant have it both ways either you have free will and CAN sin or if you cant then you dont have free will.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 11:14 PM
link   
Ok, again about free will. Can a man/woman live there whole life in sin, then one day awake, repent, find Jesus, worship God, pray etc. and slide right into Heaven like the rest of us that have worked our whole lifes to be righteous? Makes ya wonder if we should be evil and take alittle before we enter into the really hard work.

I guess the "Day of Judgement" works all of that out, egh?

Its kind of like the guy who files bankruptcy, the attorney say, off the record, go have some fun, charge to the hilt, you might as well you will never have to pay the bill, he suffers for a while (with no credit) then in 7 years he is scott free!

It's just not right, I guess that is what we experience here on earth every day, we watch people that have "everything" but do little or nothing for others but they seem so happy...."what am I doing wrong". I guess this could also be the temptation spoke of to many of us who choose a different path.

Geeezz, there is that massive web that God weaves again!

What about fallen Angels how does that work? Or did I miss that up above somewhere?



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 11:22 PM
link   
So far as Christians having the only knowledge of Heaven, this is in error.

Muslims and Jews also look forward to living somewhere else--in Heaven--according to what they know about it.

This is how and why a Muslim can believe he will live with 70 virgins, and a Christian can believe the streets will be paved with gold, and a Jew can believe the lion with lie down with the lamb. On a holodeck, anything is truly possible; and nobody ever really gets hurt.

What makes a person float up to the higher surface is being escorted there because you fulfilled your purpose, will and integrity.

What makes a person sink down to the depths of Hell is the compression, guilt and shame associated with feeling shunned by God.

And feeling shunned is a primary motivator for getting souls back on the track and learning how to do good instead of harm, once more.

Evil? I don't know how that works. I see it; I hear its lies and deceit. But I'm clueless how God deals with Evil and its horrible miserable costs.




top topics



 
0
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join