The Kids understanding it. Why can't you?, page 3

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reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 01:45 PM by LoneGunMan

reply to post by Zaphod58

I say they are impossible as far as mans technology goes. I only know what I see with my own senses.

In 1999 we had the craziest skies these thick funny looking contrails that went from horizon to horizon. Beginning at the horizon. An object at the horizon to be 27,000 high has to be 240 miles from the person seeing it. You cannot see that far through the atmosphere, so this would have to place the object at a much lower altitude. It ends up being too low for a contrail to form.

During this time, when I first noticed something different from what I grew up seeing we had at a major car dealer I worked for the entire lot, all 600 cars covered in this weird thick spider web looking material. It draped from car to car covering all 600 units. It looked like that stuff you spray from a can but it wasn't. There were other things going on that cannot be explained.

Just because you have not seen these anomalies and because it has no basis as far as yours and my logic goes does not mean it is not happening. You seem obsessed with tracking chemtrail threads and try and come across a an expert, but in reality you are what light aircraft certified and have never seen a chemtrail and have only yourself seen normal contrails.

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 01:54 PM by Phage

reply to post by MagicWand67

When testing for aluminum particulates in soil samples there is a normal range that can be expected. What can not be explained is that the levels being found are over 100 - 1000 times greater than the natural amounts. This doesn't happen naturally. There must be a man-made source for these extra amounts.

What extra amounts? Is your source that stupid movie? Levels "100 - 1000 times greater than the natural amounts" would mean the soil was more than 100% aluminum. How does that work?

The movie What in the World are the Spraying has created quite a stir with the “chemtrail” crowd. Besides the usual talk about how “normal” contrails cannot persist and spread, much is made of some testing done in the Lake Shasta area of Northern California. Some scary numbers are discussed. Surely these high levels of aluminum (and barium and strontium) must be falling 6 or 7 miles from those “chemtrails” crossing the sky overhead.

Let’s look at the test results used in the movie.
ihost.nu...

Let’s start with the soil samples so frighteningly high in aluminum. The soil under Frances Mangel's house tested at 13,600 mg/k!. Brookings, Oregon; 38,000 mg/kg! Big numbers! 38,000 somethings must be a lot! But is it?

38,000 mg/kg is 38 grams per kilogram. That's 38 grams per thousand grams. That's 3.8%. Is 3.8% a lot? Let’s check. According the chart in the book linked below, the percentage of aluminum oxide in California soils ranged from 1.63 to 32.42. That translates to between 16,300 and 324,200 mg/kg. Samples from various locations in North America ranged from 3.26% to 14.16% (32,600 to 141,600 mg/kg). Oh, I should point out that these tests were done prior to 1920. Before jets. Before “chemtrails”. 3.8% doesn't seem to be a big deal.
Soil Science

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 3/22/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 02:05 PM by RAY1990

I think everyone likes to blame chemtrails because it's easy, Zaphod58 made a great point with factories it's much more plausible, accurate and effective if it was somebody's game to poison the Earth.

Another big problem is what these factories produce, look around you now and see if you can find something that is totally natural. I bet unless you are passionate about natural goods you will struggle to find more than 3 and that is because everything is treated or mixed in some way with hazardous materials.
Synthetic materials are deadly for our environment when they break down and these materials are everywhere. They cover your walls and the floors you walk on, they are the cups you drink from and they coat the tools you use to cook or work with.

Either way you look at it, dangerous or potentially dangerous materials are in everyday items we use or they have been used in it's manufacture and in today's society of consumerism all this waste has to end up somewhere.
It is obvious to me why the land, air and sea are poisoned. Plus we as humans like to be lazy and cut corners or worry about it tomorrow

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 03:04 PM by stars15k

reply to post by LoneGunMan

You are making quite an assumption that something unknown is from anything like a "chemtrail." Did someone see planes spraying something? What did the tests of the substance show the substance to be?
Oh, wait. You don't mention any results, so I am going to make the assumption that either it was dismissed as a known before sampling or testing or it was dismissed after testing. Something like that would have been tested by all kinds of agencies, if it was thought to be somehow strange or possibly toxic.
Everyday in every single city, county and state in the US, the air and water are tested several times. So do schools, universities, and businesses. If something toxic was happening on a "spray" type of operation, it would be known by now. But the people who believe in "chemtrails" would rather whine about testing rainwater, surface water, and air at ground level, which are all going to show barium, aluminum, and other chemical du jour the "chemtrail" people choose.
Without properly testing a trail you cannot identify the source of any mineral as being distributed by that manner. That thousands of tests done daily show no reason for concern should be a clue that the theory of "chemtrails" is wrong.

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 03:20 PM by Bleeeeep

This shouldn't still be a conspiracy. It's too important.

Why has no one with credentials tested the natural aerosolizing ability of aluminum already?

Isn't this too easy to prove or disprove with the right resources?

If too much is in the air, somebody needs to do something! Don't we all agree to that?

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 03:28 PM by CarbonBase

So, on any given day, on the average, if you go outside and look at the round contrails (clouds) versus the made-made contrails, if you look horizon to horizon, 360 degrees, and up to 90 degrees (Directly up) on an AVERAGE day, you seeing 11 BILLION tons of water suspended in the air. And that's the volume of "natural contrails".
Why are there so many "Chem-trails"? it's called commercial aviation. How many aircraft would it take to put 11 Billion tons of anything into the atmosphere? and that's just an AVERAGE. But you can always tell which airplanes are spreading chem-trails. Those are the ones that are flown exclusively by bigfoot !

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 04:01 PM by Zaphod58

reply to post by inverslyproportional

You really think that's just steam?

Sulfur dioxide (SO2): Coal plants are the United States’ leading source of SO2 pollution, which takes a major toll on public health, including by contributing to the formation of small acidic particulates that can penetrate into human lungs and be absorbed by the bloodstream. SO2 also causes acid rain, which damages crops, forests, and soils, and acidifies lakes and streams. A typical uncontrolled coal plant emits 14,100 tons of SO2 per year. A typical coal plant with emissions controls, including flue gas desulfurization (smokestack scrubbers), emits 7,000 tons of SO2 per year.

Nitrogen oxides (NOx): NOx pollution causes ground level ozone, or smog, which can burn lung tissue, exacerbate asthma, and make people more susceptible to chronic respiratory diseases. A typical uncontrolled coal plant emits 10,300 tons of NOx per year. A typical coal plant with emissions controls, including selective catalytic reduction technology, emits 3,300 tons of NOx per year.

Particulate matter: Particulate matter (also referred to as soot or fly ash) can cause chronic bronchitis, aggravated asthma, and premature death, as well as haze obstructing visibility. A typical uncontrolled plan emits 500 tons of small airborne particles each year. Baghouses installed inside coal plant smokestacks can capture as much as 99 percent of the particulates.

Mercury: Coal plants are responsible for more than half of the U.S. human-caused emissions of mercury, a toxic heavy metal that causes brain damage and heart problems. Just 1/70th of a teaspoon of mercury deposited on a 25-acre lake can make the fish unsafe to eat. A typical uncontrolled coal plants emits approximately 170 pounds of mercury each year. Activated carbon injection technology can reduce mercury emissions by up to 90 percent when combined with baghouses. ACI technology is currently found on just 8 percent of the U.S. coal fleet.
Other harmful pollutants emitted annually from a typical, uncontrolled coal plant include approximately:

114 pounds of lead, 4 pounds of cadmium, other toxic heavy metals, and trace amounts of uranium. Baghouses can reduce heavy metal emissions by up to 90 percent3.

720 tons of carbon monoxide, which causes headaches and places additional stress on people with heart disease.

220 tons of hydrocarbons, volatile organic compounds (VOC), which form ozone.

225 pounds of arsenic, which will cause cancer in one out of 100 people who drink water containing 50 parts per billion.

www.ucsusa.org...

That's not counting CO2 emissions.

Seems like that's a little more than just steam to me.

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 04:05 PM by MagicWand67

reply to post by Phage

What extra amounts? Is your source that stupid movie? Levels "100 - 1000 times greater than the natural amounts" would mean the soil was more than 100% aluminum. How does that work?

What kind of stupid, idiotic statement is this?

An increase in the amount of one element does not make all other elements disappear.

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 04:06 PM by Zaphod58

reply to post by LoneGunMan

I may only have light aircraft experience as far as flying, but I worked on heavy aircraft for years. You don't have to be a certified pilot or certified in all kinds of aircraft to know what you're talking about, especially when you have years of experience behind you.

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 04:10 PM by flyswatter

Originally posted by MagicWand67
reply to post by Phage

What extra amounts? Is your source that stupid movie? Levels "100 - 1000 times greater than the natural amounts" would mean the soil was more than 100% aluminum. How does that work?

What kind of stupid, idiotic statement is this?

An increase in the amount of one element does not make all other elements disappear.

So have you found out where exactly these increased amounts of aluminum are coming from? If you're going to say "chemtrails" ... surely you have proof of that, right?

I thought not.

To find out whats in a trail, you dont go testing the soil and groundwater. That would be like doing a urinalysis with a stool sample.

"Sir, your urine is full of crap!"

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 04:51 PM by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by MagicWand67
reply to post by Phage

What extra amounts? Is your source that stupid movie? Levels "100 - 1000 times greater than the natural amounts" would mean the soil was more than 100% aluminum. How does that work?

What kind of stupid, idiotic statement is this?

One that follows from yours - most soil is more than 1% aluminium, so if there are levels "100 - 1000 times greater" than that it means 100-1000% aluminium - the math is not very difficult!

It is silly because your initial statement is silly.

An increase in the amount of one element does not make all other elements disappear.

Indeed

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 04:56 PM by network dude

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
This shouldn't still be a conspiracy. It's too important.

Why has no one with credentials tested the natural aerosolizing ability of aluminum already?

Isn't this too easy to prove or disprove with the right resources?

If too much is in the air, somebody needs to do something! Don't we all agree to that?

Sure. And all that needs to be done is the chemtrail crowd gather up a few $ each and rent a plane to test the trials in the air. Several folks have even developed a plan for you. They did all the leg work. All that needs to be done is for a few of the "believers" to get off the couch and DO SOMETHING!. Unfortunately, they have that nagging suspicion that they will be wasting their money as they will find only exhaust and ice. So it's easier to whine, complain, and post.

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 05:01 PM by waynos

reply to post by MagicWand67

So some tests have found more aluminium than soil in soil? Well done genius, and you call me a liar

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 05:19 PM by waynos

reply to post by JrDavis

No he doesn't, he hypothesises that it may work at 30,000ft. There is a difference. Besides, the 70,000ft claim is not mine, it is taken from a source posted by the member I was replying to in support of the claim that standard aircraft can be easily modified to carry out the operation. The contradiction was the point, not the claim itself.

The rest of your post makes little sense. OF COURSE crop dusting, cloud seeding, firefighting and any number of other things take place at low level. This is so the behaviour of the substance released is controllable and predictable. Yet another reason why chemtrails are a myth. I'm not sure how you think that point works against me?

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 05:49 PM by fireyaguns

reply to post by waynos

Your are

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 06:29 PM by waynos

reply to post by fireyaguns

Is having posts removed a hobby of yours?

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 07:30 PM by Phage

reply to post by MagicWand67

What kind of stupid, idiotic statement is this?

An increase in the amount of one element does not make all other elements disappear.

That's right, it doesn't. I thought you were talking about concentration levels. If you take a natural concentration of say, 3%, and increase it by 100 - 1000 times you end up with a concentration of 300% - 3000%.

But there is another way to look at it. What if we increase the actual amount of aluminum instead of its concentration level.

A 2% concentration of aluminum (a low natural level) means that in every kilogram of soil there are 20 grams of aluminum. Let's increase the actual amount of aluminum by 100 times. 20 x 100 = 2000. So we have to add 1,980 grams of aluminum to that soil. That's just about 2 times the original amount of soil, but just aluminum. We now have 2000 grams of aluminum in 2,980 grams of "soil". So the concentration is now 67% aluminum. If we go to an increase of 1000 times we get a concentration of %95.

Are you claiming that aluminum concentrations of 67%-95% are being found in soil? Where? In areas where the concentrations were formerly 2%, or in bauxite mines?

edit on 3/22/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 22-3-2013 @ 07:53 PM by MrJam