Disproving/Proving chemtrails with amateur astronomy

So I was out the other night trying to get a peek at the Comet panstarrs (which is a sight worth seeing btw), and while I was waiting for sunset I was playing around with my binoculars looking at random things, one of which being the airplanes flying overhead.

When I aimed my binoculars at them, I could see them at great detail, even at high altitudes. Now, I am not a believer in chemtrails, but I know a few people who are, and I can see how the idea can take hold. But, I think it would be an easy thing to prove or disprove if a plane is spraying something in the air using the tools available to any amateur astronomer.

If a plane is spraying chemicals into the air, it would seem to me that they would need some kind of containers and distributors for these chemicals. So, using binoculars, or even better, small telescopes with a camera attachment, it should be possible to see if the contrails are exiting the jet engines, or some other attachment on the plane.

Please correct me if this has already been done, I am not a big follower of chemtrail theories.

i hope you have a rain coat for the # storm that is coming your way bro...lol

reply to post by fedeykin


Chem trails do exist . The American Military admitted in front of a Congressional Inquiry that they did indeed test propagation methods and effects of aerial spraying of 250 population centers . Some of the chemicals and biological were hazardous but not deadly . Except where sheep were sprayed with nerve gas and then the organs removed to test for lethality . Some people thought or led to believe that UFO's were doing it .
The fact is that some people think that when a jet leaves a contrail it's chemspraying . THats wrong .
Disbursing the spray in the area of the Jet exhaust would be an easy thing but you are not going to see that at night anyhow .

reply to post by SimonPeter


What I have tried to get across to the Chemtrail hunters is that if a trail was disbursed through the engines you would not see it. People's fixation with visible trails, which are only the result of frozen water ice, are PREVENTING them from finding out what is going on, if anything.

Forget what you can see, that's utter rubbish. What can you FIND? If something is coming out of planes, it must be somewhere?

This guy has pictures of contails he's taken through a 10" telescope, and, as you say, they are crystal clear.

On a good day (or night) he can shoot a/c from 200km away!!

His site includes details of what eh uses - I think I checked prices a year or 18 mths ago & the telescope was about US$800 - or you could get a smaller 8" version for a bit less - maybe $600??

and yes it does seem strange that people concentrate on the visible ice trail that only appears in cold and humid conditions - because if anything is coming out of the engines then a lot of it should be concentrated around airports where a/c burn fuel a lot faster on takeoff and climb than they do cruising at high altitude.

reply to post by waynos


I often see jets coming in over a place I visit and can see the trail of Jet Fuel from their dump nozzels at about a 1000 ft altitude and it last about 300 yards and disappears .
Cloud seeding has been a thing of the past with Borate which was also used by the military to see if they could cause a spreading of lung cancer according to the article I read . The Military is in the business of killing people . Who is academic .

great idea to put astronomic equipment into use to figure about 'chemtrails'.
but i'm a bit surprised you try to see containers attached to the airplane.

i would suggest, the more astronomic approach to checkout wether there are chemicals in the trail or not would be shooting a laser at it and draw a spectrum from the reflection, what about that ?

i guess this has already been done and i wouldn't expect to find something unusual, except that stuff that would normally be found as a result of burned jet fuel.

i must admit, by checking out the calendar, finding myself in the year 2013, living in a land where someone can earn a compensation like millions of dollars for accidently purging a hot coffee at a MickeyD, i would find it highly unusual if our government would intentionally unleash any sort of chemistry on its citizens.
if you still think this can be done in these days .. well ...technically it can, but its neither useful or beneficial for any purpose. So claiming that there is in fact someone spraying something in these days would mean you can sue whoever it does.
Noone with a brain would miss that ultimate chance to earn money this way.

Originally posted by TMJ1972
great idea to put astronomic equipment into use to figure about 'chemtrails'.
but i'm a bit surprised you try to see containers attached to the airplane.

i would suggest, the more astronomic approach to checkout wether there are chemicals in the trail or not would be shooting a laser at it and draw a spectrum from the reflection, what about that ?

i guess this has already been done and i wouldn't expect to find something unusual, except that stuff that would normally be found as a result of burned jet fuel.

i must admit, by checking out the calendar, finding myself in the year 2013, living in a land where someone can earn a compensation like millions of dollars for accidently purging a hot coffee at a MickeyD, i would find it highly unusual if our government would intentionally unleash any sort of chemistry on its citizens.
if you still think this can be done in these days .. well ...technically it can, but its neither useful or beneficial for any purpose. So claiming that there is in fact someone spraying something in these days would mean you can sue whoever it does.
Noone with a brain would miss that ultimate chance to earn money this way.

strange you would mention suing but not mention that pointing lasers at planes is illegal and hazardous

This approach has been tried by "chemtrail" believers, but it has (as far as I have seen after several years of discussing "chemtrails") always ended up with a misinterpretation of what they are seeing.
It seems like people who believe planes are spraying something will hold to that belief instead of taking the time to learn the parts of an airplane. If you don't know the parts, you can't identify what is "extra". Even when people who work on or fly airplanes tell them their identification is wrong, they don't believe it.
On the subject of "chemtrails", it is more important to believe than to actually know.
I know, it defies all logic, but that is the way it is.

reply to post by anoncoholic


Different type of laser. A laser spectroscopy uses a pulse, not a high-energy visible beam.
Here's an article about it.
How Stuff Works, Laser Analysis

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by waynos

 

. The Military is in the business of killing people . Who is academic .

I'm pretty sure that for the military "who" is actually quite important!!

Originally posted by anoncoholic

Originally posted by TMJ1972

i would suggest, the more astronomic approach to checkout wether there are chemicals in the trail or not would be shooting a laser at it and draw a spectrum from the reflection, what about that ?

strange you would mention suing but not mention that pointing lasers at planes is illegal and hazardous

Pointing a laser at a contrail is not the same as pointing it at a plane.

not suer it woudl be much use though - since a laser is a specific wavelength of light all that can be reflected is that same wavelength - so your only possible result is binary - it reflects, or it does not.

How much is that going to tell you?

In page 3 of the article Stars15K links to above teh basic types of laser spectroscopy are introduced - Raman spectroscopy looks the most promising - some light has its wavelength changed by interaction with what it hits - but from the wiki page article it looks like it would be useless in open air at a range of 10's of thousands of feet - the intervening atmosphere would obliterate the miniscule changes that you need to detect.

the othjer methods are fluorescence - which will only be useful if the target does actualyy fluoresce, and "Laser ablation inductively coupled plasma optical emission spectroscopy (LA-ICP-OES) " - which requires making a plasma so is currently restricted to labs.

I had always assumed there was some method of figuring out the make-up of atmospheric aerosols because it is done for variosu reasons already - am I missing something??

Edit: Looks like current methods for determining composition still require actually catching the particles in eth 1st instance then analysing them - see this paper from 1999

Originally posted by stars15k
reply to post by anoncoholic

 

Different type of laser. A laser spectroscopy uses a pulse, not a high-energy visible beam.
Here's an article about it.
How Stuff Works, Laser Analysis

thank you for clarifying that as I would hate for someone with a laser pointer experimenting with reflectivity etc

With our military now flying armed drones over us ,why would we think they would spray us with chemical . Agenda 21 population reduction has to be done somehow . Most likely by denial of medical help to the week and old . The question is who decides what is weak or old ? The more we learn the less we like it .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by fedeykin

 

Chem trails do exist . The American Military admitted in front of a Congressional Inquiry that they did indeed test propagation methods and effects of aerial spraying of 250 population centers . Some of the chemicals and biological were hazardous but not deadly . Except where sheep were sprayed with nerve gas and then the organs removed to test for lethality . Some people thought or led to believe that UFO's were doing it .
The fact is that some people think that when a jet leaves a contrail it's chemspraying . THats wrong .
Disbursing the spray in the area of the Jet exhaust would be an easy thing but you are not going to see that at night anyhow .

I am just a laymen, not a scientist, but what I know about the force and heat exiting a jet engine, any chemicals that would exit with the regular contrails would be damaged or at least changed.

To my knowledge, it seems very silly to think that this is the way it was done. I would imagine it more like crop dusting (where the apparatus is clearly visible) or like the agent orange planes in vietnam.

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by SimonPeter

 

What I have tried to get across to the Chemtrail hunters is that if a trail was disbursed through the engines you would not see it. People's fixation with visible trails, which are only the result of frozen water ice, are PREVENTING them from finding out what is going on, if anything.

Forget what you can see, that's utter rubbish. What can you FIND? If something is coming out of planes, it must be somewhere?

I'm not saying you need to see the trails, I am saying you should be able to see an attachment on the plane such as clearly visible in crop dusting.

The link that someone provided (here) clearly shows no such apparatus or attachments on any of the observed planes.

Reply to post by PLAYERONE01

There has never been a more perfect first response in the history of the Internet!


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

How do farmer's spray their land? How did we spray agent orange from planes in Vietnam? The technology is there and useful. I'm not proving or disproving chem trails.

Originally posted by lobograndemalo
How do farmer's spray their land? How did we spray agent orange from planes in Vietnam? The technology is there and useful. I'm not proving or disproving chem trails.

edit on 22-3-2013 by lobograndemalo because: (no reason given)

Is or was, any of that done at 30 thousand feet?
crop dusting is done just above the ground. Anything sprayed from a plane at 25-35 thousand feet would become so diluted by the time it reached the ground 2-3 hundred miles away from it's initial spray point that I doubt you could even tell anything was sprayed. That's why they spray very close to the ground when crop dusting.

Originally posted by lobograndemalo
How do farmer's spray their land? How did we spray agent orange from planes in Vietnam? The technology is there and useful. I'm not proving or disproving chem trails.

edit on 22-3-2013 by lobograndemalo because: (no reason given)

The technology is there, and clearly visible on the airplanes. Through simple deduction, the technology for chemtrails therefore also should be visible.