Police tie man to chair, Pepper spray his face for 20 Mins.

Agent008
I found this very disturbing...Humane treatment is all that is required. Most guards are sadist and would kill and torture if they could get away with it. Because you are serving time it does not mean you get tortured like this. There are far better ways to handle situations, the man is strapped down with 5 guards and they are spraying him at will its totally disgusting ,peace,sugarcookie1 S&F

The man is restrained in a chair, blinded, choking on his own saliva with his head held back and they are still telling him "stop resisting"...

They obviously do this sort of thing regular, the other guards carry on until the "Captain" is done with his sermon. Reminded me of that scene in THX1138...

movieclips.com...

This thread title sucks, it is an outright lie

Can I please have that 15mins of my life back !?

Originally posted by jude11
But did you get the chance to wash your face and eyes or did you have to sit there for 24 minutes inhaling it inside a mask?

I believe there's a BIG difference here.

Peace

Actually in several cases I went longer than 24 minutes. Its not like we can just stop what we are doing once someone is taken into custody. Secondly we don't carry water hoses with us that would allow us to clean it off the moment resistance ended.

Finally, regardless of who is pepper sprayed, the moment the individual gets into the car, it affects everyone else in that car.

Absent water, the best solution is to do nothing with it. Eventually it becomes air dried and the effects diminish. Using lotion / wipes / constantly rubbing it actually prolongs the effects. You are in essence rubbing the Oleoresin Capsicum into your pores. Even when using water we are trained to lean forward so the residue does not run down the body via the water.

As I stated before, the people involved should be investigated and disciplined / terminated / prosecuted if the facts are accurate. Doing this to a person based on animosity as opposed to officer safety is not acceptable.

I was merely relaying my experience with OC and its affects along with some background info for those who are not all that familiar with it.

That is pure out and out torture.

Intimidation, assault and lack of care and duty, the cops are not your friends they are thugs in uniform hiding behind a badge.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Agent008

 

Would you please fix your title being its not accurate.

The man was not tied to a chair and pepper sprayed for 20 minutes straight.

Your source -

When one officer pinned his head to the chair, Schlosser struggled and spit at an officer. Welch sprayed him at close range with pepper spray, called OC spray, from a canister intended to be used on multiple people at a distance of 18 to 20 feet, according to an investigator's report.

Welch then refused to let Schlosser, who said he couldn't breathe, wash his face for 24 minutes. A spit mask was placed over Schlosser's mouth and nose, trapping the pepper spray against his face.

Secondly I have been pepper sprayed numerous times (training as well as fighting with people). While pepper spray is annoying its just that, annoying.

On average pepper sprays are rated anywhere between 500k and 5 million Scoville Heat Units. A jalapeno pepper is rated around 5k heat units.

To specifically address and comment about the actions in the article.. If they are validated then yes, the people involved should be investigated and if appropriate face discipline / prosecution. Performing an action based on personal animosity in this line of work is incompatible and just plain stupid.

edit on 21-3-2013 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-3-2013 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Is it normal procedure to put a spit mask on someone after they have been pepper sprayed? I think in these cases it should be one or the other. If pepper spray is used to remedy a situation when an officer is spit on, so be it, it's used and it worked and no need for anything else. But if a spit mask prevents them from spitting, and nothing else is needed, put the mask on.

Spraying someone and then putting a mask on them smells of intent to cause suffering.

Do I think it's okay for the inmate to spit on the officer? I don't think anyone should spit on anyone. But by that circumstance, doesn't the officer have the right to charge the inmate?

So more charges and more time, all for spitting... Maybe the inmate might realize the futility of it all. In any case, that is justice, taking it into your own hands whether or not you are on the job is unacceptable.

If what was done was standard protocol, then so be it. Something that should be up for debate if the public is not comfortable with it.

I can think of three recent deaths in Canada (jails), one was when Corrections workers put a kid in with a serial killer. Serial killer killed his bunk mate. The other was a young girl who hung herself after mistreatment and extended sentences for no criminal behaviour. Third I remember hearing about a young kid getting killed over a bag of chips while in detention. (Hadn't been proved guilty yet.)

So while some might think, "The officer should get _________. (Insert angry overblown punishment)." and other people might say, "serves the bastard right, hope he rots in jail."
...There are some of us that just think, damn, two people end up in a place like that and both must really, really, deep down hate what their life involves...

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Agent008

 

The inmate had spit on a cop so they took the logical action (sarcasm) and tied his hands and feet to a chair put pepper spray on his face one officer rubbed it on with a gloved hand holding his hand over the inmates eyes for about 20 mins.

Seems like a logical response by the CO’s.

Sometimes people need to be taught a lesson. Maybe the inmate learned not to act like an animal. At least they didn’t taze or beat him. This dude got off easy!

I *sincerely* hope someone will teach you the exact same lesson some time very soon for thinking like an animal.

On a related note, do you think the inmate will act less like an animal, if he ever did? Well, I can assure you, when this fella gets out he will be more animal than he ever was and I don't blame him for it either. Yeah.. he sure learned a lesson, but it's not what should be taught.

reply to post by RationalDespair

I *sincerely* hope someone will teach you the exact same lesson some time very soon for thinking like an animal.

I've been taught that lesson and I'm a better man for it. That's why I highly recommend it. Everyone needs their butt kicked at some point in life to snap them back into reality. Hopefully this was enough for this dude. I've had worse.

On a related note, do you think the inmate will act less like an animal, if he ever did? Well, I can assure you, when this fella gets out he will be more animal than he ever was and I don't blame him for it either. Yeah.. he sure learned a lesson, but it's not what should be taught.

Oh, that's right!! We can NEVER blame the individual for his/her own actions. It's always societies fault, huh?

This is the mindset from someone who has never been shown the error in their ways. A swift punch in the mouth usually wakes people up to the reality that the world does not indeed revolve around them and there ARE negative consequences if you act like an idiot.

reply to post by sugarcookie1

I found this very disturbing...Humane treatment is all that is required.

is it humane to spit on people? I believe that could be considered assault. How come only certain people are held to this 'humane' standard? Maybe that's the problem here.

Most guards are sadist and would kill and torture if they could get away with it.

Baseless speculation!

Because you are serving time it does not mean you get tortured like this. There are far better ways to handle situations, the man is strapped down with 5 guards and they are spraying him at will its totally disgusting

Maybe the guy should have considered his situation before spitting on people. There are many instances where personal restraint is in an individuals best interest. For example, a white person wouldn't go to a Black Panther gathering and yell racial slurs if he had any sense, and I certainly wouldn't think it wise to spit on guards while outnumbered and restrained either. When you act like a fool you deserve the repercussions of your foolish actions. Karma is a B@@ch.

reply to post by seabag


As much as I agree with your general consensus, in this case and many others, the amount of violence is completely disproportional to the initial act and it can't be justified and should not be encouraged. If he had hit an cop in the face or something, or if he was endangering them, it may have been a different story, but this case is a simple matter of misuse of power.

Only one thing to say..

Share this video on your facebook twitter and remember to download it before its taken off
It will never stop if the people outside the walls don't know whats going on

SHARE IT !

reply to post by RationalDespair

As much as I agree with your general consensus, in this case and many others, the amount of violence is completely disproportional to the initial act and it can't be justified and should not be encouraged.

I'm playing devils advocate more than anything because threads like this often quickly devolve into LE bashing. I don't condone what they did nor do I encourage behavior like that. I just think the outrage is a bit manufactured in many cases and people only sympathize with the guy who started it! How about sympathy for people who go to work every day and face being spat upon and/or much worse?

If he had hit an cop in the face or something, or if he was endangering them, it may have been a different story, but this case is a simple matter of misuse of power.

Agreed! It was an excessive response. Wasn't it also an excessive response to spit on someone because you disagree with the job they're doing? Who became physical first?

reply to post by Spacespider

Only one thing to say..

Share this video on your facebook twitter and remember to download it before its taken off
It will never stop if the people outside the walls don't know whats going on

SHARE IT !

Why? Why should this incident be further sensationalized? How about we share what this idiot did to get thrown in jail in the first place. This clown is no victim, he's likely a career dirt bag who got what he earned. Karma has a funny way of catching up to people.

I wonder who will do all of the policing when we chastise LE every chance we get and drive people away from that profession??

reply to post by Agent008

In before the establishment gatekeepers tell us that he "deserved it".

Torture, its not just for breakfast anymore.

Spit mask is justified for a spitter. Restraint chair is justified for a combative inmate. Pepper spray is justified to subdue a combative inmate.

Seems they might have used the pepper spray when it wasn't "necessary" because if the inmate is already in the restraint chair and has on the spit mask there's no more "danger." Just wheel the chair over to a corner and let the inmate simmer down. Or, have the doc or medic apply some sedative. Whatever.

Another thing that I've noticed - there are some good prison/jail guards. Some are ex military looking to go into law enforcement by working their way up. Some are just good people.

That said...

Prison guards are not law enforcement. They are not police officers or Sheriff deputies. They are guards. They might be called "corrections officer" but they are really just guards. They are paid crap wages and don't need to be very bright. Thus, many times the institutions don't get the finest cream of the crop, and poor decisions can be made.

But I know some COs. Some are nice. Some are smart. Some are generally ethical and, in general, might actually care. In fact I'm thinking of one guy right now who I am acquainted with who has a number of years experience who is quite smart and is a really good guy who is fair with the inmates.

But no way can a facility have every one of the COs be top notch. There will be some losers fresh off the street who are idiots that might not even make it at McDonalds.

I don't know if those commenting saw the original article. I just clicked the link provided and it went to a related article about how the State of Maine has now started an investigation as to how the video was leaked. (I know that newspapers will often change the original article with an updated one. Which can be very irritating.)

A good link that will give you the details of what happened is:

www.onlinesentinel.com...

This goes into way more detail than the sourced article.

I have a lot more to say about this and hopefully I'll back soon to comment.

Originally posted by seabag

Why? Why should this incident be further sensationalized? How about we share what this idiot did to get thrown in jail in the first place. This clown is no victim, he's likely a career dirt bag who got what he earned. Karma has a funny way of catching up to people.

I wonder who will do all of the policing when we chastise LE every chance we get and drive people away from that profession??

Did you read the article before jumping to conclusions?

This young man is mentally ill, he should have never been in jail in the first place, there are more appropriate places for people like him. Second, he gauged his arm and refused to get treatment so they restrained him for the purposes of taking care of his wound.

That led to him spitting on people who restrained him which led to things we are shown in this video. I have total understanding for being frustrated while restrained, don't you?

There is no excuse whatsoever to treat him this way. It's either restraint OR mace (to help restrain him) not both. On top of it he gets the burning chemical rubbed in his eyes and a cloth on his mouth just for the sake of torturing him. 25 minutes long torture. That is wrong, no ifs or buts.


edit: and thank you poster above me, this is a quote from your link

Schlosser, 27, of Standish, was arrested in 2010 after several robbery attempts in Portland in one morning as he sought money for drugs, according to police. He has at least 18 prior convictions, mostly for theft and drugs but no violent crimes. Before 2008, Schlosser was a medic in the military but had been discharged. He takes medication for bipolar disorder and depression, according to DOC documents and statements Schlosser made on the tape. On June 7, Schlosser made deep, repeated cuts in his left arm -- something he had done before -- and was taken to Maine Medical Center

A few things came to mind as I was watching this and after reading some comments..

- The video wasn't any where near as bad as I was expecting based on the thread title.

- We know about the spitting in the face incident, but what else do we really know about the history that led up to this point?

- What alternative actions do you recommend? Ask them nicely to stop doing what they're doing? There are a lot of bad people in prisons that do a lot of bad things - I'm not a big fan of aggression, but really, what alternatives are there?

I guess I'm conflicted on this - on one hand, I would prefer rehabilitation over aggression, but I think the reality of prison life dictates that sometimes other actions are necessary. Hard to know for sure if that was the case here or not.

ETA: Sorry, just read the associated article - it does sound like in this case that it was excessive, but I still think there are times where force can be warranted..

Originally posted by Exitt

Originally posted by seabag

Why? Why should this incident be further sensationalized? How about we share what this idiot did to get thrown in jail in the first place. This clown is no victim, he's likely a career dirt bag who got what he earned. Karma has a funny way of catching up to people.

I wonder who will do all of the policing when we chastise LE every chance we get and drive people away from that profession??

Did you read the article before jumping to conclusions?

This young man is mentally ill, he should have never been in jail in the first place, there are more appropriate places for people like him. Second, he gauged his arm and refused to get treatment so they restrained him for the purposes of taking care of his wound.

That led to him spitting on people who restrained him which led to things we are shown in this video. I have total understanding for being frustrated while restrained, don't you?

There is no excuse whatsoever to treat him this way. It's either restraint OR mace (to help restrain him) not both. On top of it he gets the burning chemical rubbed in his eyes and a cloth on his mouth just for the sake of torturing him. 25 minutes long torture. That is wrong, no ifs or buts.


edit: and thank you poster above me, this is a quote from your link

Schlosser, 27, of Standish, was arrested in 2010 after several robbery attempts in Portland in one morning as he sought money for drugs, according to police. He has at least 18 prior convictions, mostly for theft and drugs but no violent crimes. Before 2008, Schlosser was a medic in the military but had been discharged. He takes medication for bipolar disorder and depression, according to DOC documents and statements Schlosser made on the tape. On June 7, Schlosser made deep, repeated cuts in his left arm -- something he had done before -- and was taken to Maine Medical Center

edit on 22-3-2013 by Exitt because: (no reason given)

When I was in my twenties I worked in a state hospital and was subjected to being spit on and having other bodily excretions both liquid and solid thrown on myself and other staff members that I worked with and supervised... There was never any kind of retribution sought by any of us when this occurred... The unit used nothing more than isolating the offending patient in a time out room where they could rant and rave until they wore themselves out or in more extreme cases they would be minimally sedated with medication and possibly placed in full bed restraints until they chilled out... There is no way that what happened to Mr. Schlosser should have ever happened regardless of how he behaved.

Whistleblowers are the only thing that keeps me from losing complete faith in humanity.