Vatican Insider - Pope Francis replaces 'Throne of Peter' with simple chair

"The Throne of Peter represented apostolic succession from Jesus Himself through Peter and unending down to each Pope. That symbol is gone."

Could this be why Saint Malachy never numbered Peter the Roman?

Members - please know that there are many mis-leading and somewhat denigrating headlines being used the by press in reference to the pope, particularly by those who are expressing in subtle ways, their anti-Church and/or anti Catholic bias.

A good example is the headline being used in this very thread which is taken from an article in the left leaning mainstream press - not only in Italy but around the world, and especially in the United States.

That said - be advised that recently, pope Francis listened intently to the words of his guests seated on an 'armchair' (as a gesture of humility), rather than the throne like chair that is customarily used in Clementine Hall, called the Sala Clementina (The Clementine Salon), which is a [receiving] hall of the Apostolic Palace near St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City.

That throne like chair in the Sala Clementina has nothing whatever to do with the "Chair of Peter," which signifies apostolic succession.

Wiki

The Clementine Hall, called the Sala Clementina (The Clementine Salon) is a hall of the Apostolic Palace near St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City. It was established in the 16th century by Pope Clement VIII in honor of Pope Clement I, the third successor of St. Peter. The Clementine Hall is covered in Renaissance frescoes and valuable works of art. It is used by the pope as a reception room and in some cases, site of various ceremonies and rituals. The Clementine Hall is the chamber in which the body of the pope lies for private visitation by officials of the Vatican upon death, like that most recently of the funeral of Pope John Paul II. The pope's body is then traditionally moved from the Clementine Hall and ceremonially carried across St. Peter's Square to St. Peter's Basilica or the Basilica of San Giovanni in Laterano.

im still a bit skeptical, being a cospiracy theorist, but it seems he shows a virtue i hold very highly, my skepticism is slowly leaving. he shows humility and is a very humble person. i applaud his decisions whether or not just personal preference, or a personal message. going back to simplicity is the best. i wonder if he will open up the vatican library for all to see? THAT would be my wish and THAT would, depending on the information contained, set me into stone to believing this man truly and utterly is who he seems to be. I dont think itll happen, but its just a scenario in which i would KNOW without a shadow of a doubt he is and will be for the people. then again, just as in all conspiracy theory fashion, would that be his plan? hook line and sinker, then POW!!! gotcha.

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

 

As the author says there are millions of misconceptions about Catholicism. Perhaps people should pick up and read the Catechism of the Catholic Church before they spread stories about us worshipping the Pope or Mary.

How is kissing the feet of Mary statues not worshiping, praying to Mary kissing the ring of the pope on ones knees.

Do you really think the sin of the worship of the idol golden calf was because it was a golden calf only?

The processions dressing statues of Mary in clothing and everyone trying to touch it and crying...not worship?

Honor and worship are two different things. Do you think Catholic are secretly worshipping Mary and claiming otherwise? We believe in God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). We do not worship statues and consider them to be Gods. They Israelites worshipped the golden calf as God. If someone kisses a statue it is a kiss for the person the statue represents. Do you think I consider my statue to actually be Mary? I don't. Anyone that did would have a serious psychiatric delusion.

As example, I have a small print of the painting of Jesus done by Akiane at age 8 called "Prince of Peace." It is on the wall in my living room going into the kitchen. Sometimes I go next to the print and hug the wall. Jesus knows I meant that hug for Him. I can understand that anyone seeing this might misconstrue the action as "house love."

I hope you can figure this out. When Pope Francis washes and kisses the feet of juvenile prisoners on Holy Thursday don't assume this is anything but a act of love and done in imitation of Christ's actions before the Last Supper.

'Unpredictable pope' to wash feet of 12 prisoners

Typically held either in St Peter's Basilica or in the Church of St John in Lateran, this is the Pope's church in his capacity as Bishop of Rome. The former archbishop of Buenos Aires instead will hold the service in the Casal del Marmo jail. Francis is expected to wash and kiss the feet of 12 inmates, in a gesture that commemorates Jesus' humility towards his disciples before the Last Supper, the night before he was crucified.

www.catholic.org...

I'm sorry but the Catholics i know would protect those statues with their lives and that says it all.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Char-Lee
kissing the ring of the pope on ones knees.

No ring kissing in this picture from Tuesday...

When this happened earlier this week, many were moved to tears. Pope Francis kissed the head of a disabled man after he spotted him in the crowd as he rode through St. Peter's Square March 19 ahead of his inaugural Mass at the Vatican. (Catholic News Service photo/L'Osservatore Romano)

More as it should be, Jesus washed the disciples feet.

reply to post by Char-Lee

I'm sorry but the Catholics i know would protect those statues with their lives and that says it all.

You don't have to be sorry. The only thing in my house that is worth dying for is my kids. If someone puts a material possession above life IMHO they have their priorities wrong. If is just that they cherish these things, I understand that these statues might be the last thing they would want to give up because it represents something they hold in dear to their hearts, their faith. We should try not to judge. Can't take anything with us when we go.

I don't think i trust this Pope, it just all seems a bit odd.

I figured out why he's making these changes. The former Pope could be his roommate. Get real; the former one might still be attached to the chair and the apartment. I keep thinking the former one is going to be sitting in that big throne, holding a remote control, flipping through channels on a TV set. The old one needs to write a book about it.

Now this new Pope. In all seriousness, isn't it surface judgment when someone relates possessions to inner spiritual qualities? God sees the heart, not the chair. Throne, chair, rug on the ground, dirt, I don't think it is a measure of spirituality where one puts their backside. Status symbols can be misleading, and same with humility symbols. Holy, holier than thou, holiest, you can't see that in furniture or a building. They mean something in a social system, but even that can be counterfeited.

Some people humiliate themselves on purpose so they can get more donations. Consider if the new one had done the opposite, and put in a bigger more ornate chair, would people be repulsed by it?

There is actually a spiritual relevance for not sitting in a used chair. I'm not sure it's completely for the message of humility. Sometimes, new chair equals new kingdom.

My inner child is thinking maybe it's a confidence trick, and it's not going to be enough demonstration to prove that things have changed. All the antichrist and end time talk, I must keep my eyes peeled for those wolves in sheeps clothing, nobody is exempt, especially the bigger named ones. What? The last one quit over scandal. Scandal isn't over yet. Maybe it's just begun! Woo woo.

reply to post by Sandalphon

I think you've written one of the more confusing posts, could you explain it to me?

After hearing through dozens of threads that the Pope (any Pope) is terrible because he wears expensive clothes, lives in a palace, etc., etc, and doesn't sell them to give the money away, you seem to be saying that it doesn't matter if the Pope bathes in Champagne and buys gold-plated cars. (I'm exaggerating, but I think you get my point.)

After you say that those trappings have no real meaning, your inner child thinks it's a con job. Based on what? If you're ignoring the trappings, what have you got left for evidence that it's a con?

By the way, the old Pope is at the Castle Gandolfo for now (it's the Pope's summer home), I understand he's going to live in a monastery.

and...... I'm still waiting for Tadaman or anyone else to tell me whats so evil about the jesuits...

Pope Francis is quickly becoming the best Pope we have seen in our lives and as far back as any one can remember. But what does it all mean? With the Popes prophecy and the letter from Mary that has been yet to be reveled even though the girl and her sister and brother were told when to have it released to the public by Mary. Somthing is happening. Will it be for good or bad? It is to early to tell, but this Pope is ready to battle the forces of evil, old school style.

If he opened the library or planned to he would be assasinated. If it did happen and no one target the Pope, it would be a great day.

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by Spiramirabilis

 

I will believe he wants to turn things around, when he opens all the secrets and gives all the treasure to the poor.

Secrets?

:-)

Not sure why you replied to me - but as long as I'm here...

I'm not Catholic, but there are a lot of people in this world who are and this is their guy. I'm sure a bunch of people are thinking right now that this doesn't really affect them, but no getting around it - he has power and he has influence. He won't hand over all the treasure, but I'll bet he let's go of a bigger chunk than usual. As far as world leaders go I'm kinda digging this guy. If he's not just foolin' around for show, and he really is what he looks like he is - I'm thinking some stuff is about to hit the fan

I hope so - he could actually do some good in this world. But, I'm an idealist and I've had my heart broke plenty
Since I obviously live in a fantasy world - I was reminded of this


:-)

reply to post by Tattiio

Are you speaking about the Secret Archives? They've been opened, at least up to 1939. Here's an interesting article from a non-religious magazine: Slate - The Secret Archives And if you'd like to see some of the documents in the Archives, they were put on display last year. Try this website LuxInArcana.org

The problem I've always had is that I read neither Italian or Latin, but scholars who do are allowed in.

We can keep up the conspiracy theories by believing that the good stuff is stored some place else. I guess we'll never be able to prove that one way or the other.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I dig it. Sounds like we got a good pope on our hands fellas.

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Ah yes, Pope 'Poor Church'...
Stealthily conditioning the masses to accept lower standards of living.

This pope will also prepare us for the false messiah by bringing Jesus' face back to the Vatican and Catholicism. There is really nothing about Jesus at the Vatican. Its really and Egyptian shrine veiled in mystery. Nothing religious or spiritual about it.

Not a catholic, but I've been loving watching the freak out about this pope. The fact is that great effort has been expended in America to tie Christianity to a Republican/Conservative viewpoint, and that viewpoint is deeply tied toward admiration of wealth and money. Unfortunately, if you read the Bible, it basically has the opposite message. So when you get a group like the Jesuits who really walk the talk in living humbly and taking care of the poor, and one of them becomes pope, that means massive pants #ting with many US Christians. These are the same people who tried to spread the idea that the "eye of the needle" in Christ's words: "sooner shall a camel pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter the kingdom of heaven" was actually a code word for a city gate that rich men went through all the time. Ha! Wake up call guys...

reply to post by tridentblue


What do you mean "freak out?" Most of the people who I've seen post on the subject here are either approving of the Pope or saying we should give him a chance.

I'd question your assertion that Christianity is deeply tied to an admiration of wealth and money. Christianity seems more concerned with social issues and those dealing with rights and liberties, than it is about the Federal Reserve.

But, if I've misunderstood your point, please try again.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Q2IN2Y
I feel like he's trying too hard to portray himself as this 'humble' man. I don't like it. PLus, I get a very eerie vibe from him... mainly in the eyes-upper nose area. He has a vacant stare.

I understand being jaded and all ... I certainly am when it comes to politicians. But based on what I've read about him .. he's always been like this. He's not just 'turning it on' for the crowds now that he's pope. As for your 'vacant stare' comment .. I'm not seeing it. He seems kinda joyful and he has a nice smile .. IMHO.

Hes been acting like this for a long time, when he became archbishop he refused to live in the place where the former archbishops lived, and chose a small room.
I wouldnt say hes doing it to appeal to the masses, its just how hes used to live. And well i guess hes trying to set the example for the cardenals of the church

I'll be honest, I'm starting to like this pope. It seems he understands the contradiction of being the leader of the catholic church while living in a palace made of gold.