Originally posted by build319
Okay now this is actually a pretty good debate now when you get to the facts. Its not just porn that they are trying to supress.
- I agree it's an interesting debate.
I also think porn is exactly
what they are trying to supress. They just picked the easiest target - the people seemingly making the 'most
extreme stuff' - to go after first.
They (as supporters have stated) plan to expand their puritan 'net' if they succeed here.
This is why Ashcroft wants to put them away.
XPW owner Rob Black (real name Robert Zicari) and XPW valet Lizzy Borden (Janet Romano) will face obscenity charges for allegedly distributing
pornographic movies that depict murder, rape and other violent acts against women, according to federal authorities in Pittsburgh.
Now Larry Flynt doesnt even agree with this guy.
"I have never been in favor of forced sex, whether real or imagined. I have always promoted consensual sex and portrayed consensual sex,” Flynt
wrote. “Bad taste should not be confused with physical abuse. This is where I part company with Mr. Black.”
- Larry is a human being entitled to his views as much as anyone and his views are his own affair.
I must also say it makes an interesting first to see Larry Flynt used as the yardstick of taste and propriety!
So the true question about this is, should we allow pornography to depict rape and violence against woman?
- No. Sorry, but I beg to differ. I don't think that is the issue at all.
The issue is, IMO, what gives anyone the right to proscribe and legislate for other peoples' fantasies and use the law to take the liberty from
people who are making consentual movies which depict that fantasy?
Even those movies which appear to show subjects many people have 'trouble' with.
This just the latest rerun of the classic puritan versus free art arguement.
Ashcroft & his religious pals think, IMO, that because the subject matter is so graphic and superficially unappealing (they imagine) to many/most that
they can legitimately begin closing down liberties in this area.
Sexual repression is always one of the staging posts to political repression and this is very definitely connected to Ashcroft's political
These movies (many of which are actually created and produced by women, hence Black's wife is also cited, with absolutely freely participating
models/actresses) are totally about sex fantasy
and are not about 'depicting (actual) rape and (actual) violence against women'. That is
absurd and to completely fail to understand the point of the films.
It may be hard for some people to grasp but these do
constitute part of some peoples' fantasies some of the time. Including women. Sorry but
there you have it.
Ooops, truth's out, deal with it.
I think this is the true underlying issue. This isnt just poor harmless porno.
- Sorry but it is
. No one was harmed. No one is doing anything against their will, no one is actually assaulted or raped.
It's a movie.
This is violent stuff.
- I totally disagree. It is not actually
violent stuff because the violence is not real
. It's a movie.
When you take fantasy to this level, it in fact could be dangerous.
I suppose at some level that is true. But only in the sense that many things can - taken to an unrealistic and unrepresentitive nth degree - be
harmful to people.
So, so what? Does everything potentially harmful
to the handfull of idiots who might be complete morons about it and harm themselves
over it get banned now?
Is it considered reasonable for Ashcroft's nanny intrusive state to intrude into people's bedrooms as well as imprison people for the rest of their
natural lives for making these films?
Do you really
believe in such actions?
Do you really
hold the fantasy that by taking these two people's lives away from them (which is what a 50yr sentence effectively does) will
actually stop anyone from making films you do not agree with or like the look of?
......and what happens when it's something harmless you like that maybe they find 'sinfull' and they threaten you and yours with a 50yr
Ashcroft and those fundamentalist loons are a dangerous menace, hopefully on their way out of power as we speak.
[edit on 2-11-2004 by sminkeypinkey]