I need help.....please

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posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by liam8126
 


Please guys I really need your help here I'm afraid if he cant change his way of thinking I wont be able to deal with him and well end up hating each other.

1) You can't win his favor no matter what you do. When you finally realize this you will realize you don't have to.
2) Stop siding with your mom against him. He's jealous of that especially.
3) Don't let the built up anger drive you to do something (legally) that will derail your life once you leave the house. Avoid the, Oh yeah, I'll show you...

You can't change anybody. Do your required duties and avoid the conflict as much as possible. Even if he digs for a response from you, just refuse to engage. Keep it simple and non challenging. I am going upstairs, I am going to the store, whatever. Just announce and do what you do. It will drive him nuts and he will escalate but can't do anything if you don't shoot back.

That is the hardest thing. Not firing back. If you do you play right into his hands. If you give your mom that knowing look that will aggravate him all the more. Swallow your pride.




posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 08:08 PM
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Dear Liam. I can only say don't try to change your Dad. You are the one making changes within yourself and seeking knowledge and learning about life and other people, etc. Major changes and awareness are occuring within you. As frustrating and empty as it may seem some people are quite content to remain "as is". Or they are afraid to explore the world. Your Dad may find it safest to stay in the only awareness he knows. And you trying to change him, open his mind may be scary for him. Or it may even make him confront issues he has been trying to avoid: perhaps a painful past, mistakes he's made, maybe he's trying to keep control of his work situation, or finding it hard to relate to someone that used to just be a kid but is now seeking interaction in an adult manner. It's possible your Dad was raised in a strict house and only allowed to be "seen but not heard". Did his opinions count when he was a kid? He may feel you are having your Mom take sides and this may threaten him. Or perhaps he feels he is stupid and he really doesn't know how to communicate with you. There are many people out there who can only relate to pain and negative thoughts and that is their comfort zone. Does your Dad have a learning disorder or is he mentally unbalanced? I am only pointing out these things because I have a Dad that can relate to all that I have noted above. He also has the start of dementia. I counted down every moment I was a child until the time I got out of the house. It was my goal. Now that I realize my dad has psychological issues I can love him for who he is. I see glimmers of the man that is my dad, the loving and carefree and fun guy. That is the man I love. The other man is the one I sympathize with and just love unconditionally. He will never change. My loving him unconditionally has allowed us to maintain and nourish our relationship and I would do anything for him. There was a time when I prayed he would die. I can grow within myself and accept him for who he is and that allows me to be free. If that makes sense. And over the years there has been growth. Minimal yes, but growth all the same and I am so very proud of the inroads he has made. Maybe find common ground with him, talk about stuff that he finds interesting. A spiritual journey is an extremely personal and private journey so it may not even make sense to him although to you it does. Can you two find something to do together, ie: fishing, gardening, watching car races, work on engines? Just some thoughts is all. Do not leave home. You are at a point now where your future depends on what you make of the next six years or so - depending on what you want to do. If home is a safe place keep in mind that you have your Mom's love and support. That is what you have to lean on and absorb when you need and maybe even give your Dad some space. Two years will go by even if it feels like time refuses to move. Hang in there. "Been there, done that"- and completely understand and support you,



posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by liam8126
 


I'm not being a butt head on purpose, but please add some separation in your post. It makes for a hard read and your title brought me in. But your content lost me. ;-)



posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 08:29 PM
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Doesn't sound like he's mentally or physically abusive, just obtuse. It's a potentially hard time, the transition from child to adult and the change in relationship you have with your parents as you mature. My advice, for what it's worth, would be a charm offensive. Get to know each other again. Go and do some fun or relaxing activities together. Go camping, fishing, bowling, anything away from the home and the normal situation.



posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 08:43 PM
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Why do I get the impression that most the arguments that you and your father have is from the stuff you read from ATS. I would hate to be a teen again. Just remember that older people have more life experience. The more homework you do on a subject the more you learn. Do not try to be a know it all to your father keep it to your self. If you want to have a conversation ask him questions on subjects he likes or his past. Old people like to talk about the past.



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 05:12 AM
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It was very wise of you to post this thread, buddy. I admire your thinking.
I am impressed by many helpful suggestions too, which I don't think I would have been able to arrive at, myself. My hat to all who posted/contributed.

My only suggestion is to print everything out and go through each one with your mom to decide the best one/s that suit your situation. Refer back to the suggestion whenever you are lost.

Best of luck and plenty of hugs to you and family....



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by liam8126
 


Learning rhetoric would be your answer.



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by liam8126
Hey ATS, the last year I have come to discover spirituality and also have been seeking the truth and denying ignorance everywhere I go. I have started taking courses in school about social sciences, and also have been doing lots of research online concerning meditation, conspiracy theory's, philosophy, consciousness and all that good stuff. Getting to the point........I am having major issues with my dad. My whole life he has always had to do things his way because they are the only right way, to put it simple he's extremely narrow minded. Now as you can guess as I have been learning more and more I am learning alot about how he thinks, and his logic which is flawed. He literally see's me as some stupid pot head teen who knows nothing, and everything I say is some sort of bull# if it defy's him. We will get in argument and I will point out why hes doing ignorant things then he just laughs or says something that has nothing to do with what I said, here's an example. Tonight at dinner he started to argue with my mom (who is on my side and totally understands me) by saying that hes not walking the dogs and that we have too (he walks them every night after dinner the only reason he said that is because he was angry with me from a previous argument), then I pointed out that fact, and he continued to reply "Oh really know it all?", then i said "Why did you have to add know it all? You were trying to provoke me to further argue with you" then he just laughed.... This happens all the time, me and my mom can literally never be right in his eyes unless it benefits him in some sort of way. What I'm here to ask is that do you guys know any possible ways that I can change the way he thinks, so maybe he can see things from our perspective, or actually take our opinions into perspective at all. Please guys I really need your help here I'm afraid if he cant change his way of thinking I wont be able to deal with him and well end up hating each other.

Thanks ATS

Liam




What a funny person you are,

Why don't you change your ways of thinking so you don't end up hating each other seems like a more reasonable path you should look to first before trying to change another s way of thinking.

Can you change your ways?

What is the purpose of telling someone or pointing out they are doing ignorant things, is it to make you feel a little bigger, what you fail to realize is your perception of ignorance will differ from your fathers and you have shown yours by attempting to point out his.

The problem is you, see the last sentence of your OP.

Excuses excuses are what each new generation get better at.

If your father cant change his ways it will be up to you to grow a pair and learn to deal.

You say your learning a lot about how your father think but not learning anything in how to deal with it and just want him to change, wait till you work 9-5 for 25years having a stranger as a boss that has the same attitude and see how far you get complaining instead of taking action to change yourself before others.


The deeper you dig you hole the longer you stay trapped inside and make it more difficult to climb out.



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by d8track
Why do I get the impression that most the arguments that you and your father have is from the stuff you read from ATS. I would hate to be a teen again. Just remember that older people have more life experience. The more homework you do on a subject the more you learn. Do not try to be a know it all to your father keep it to your self. If you want to have a conversation ask him questions on subjects he likes or his past. Old people like to talk about the past.



OP,

This seems like good advice from the description you have given us concerning your issues

Very nice words of wisdom there d8track



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by liam8126
 


You sound very young.

The best part about life that I recently learnt makes life tremendously easier, more fun and definately more interesting. It is this:

A thing is either your business
or
It is another man's business
or
It is God's bussiness.

Take care of your business and leave the others to take care of theirs.

You CANNOT change anyone, think for them or choose for them.

It might have been interesting if his provocation did nothing to you and your mom. If for instance, he said that he was not taking out the dog, and nobody says anything but maybe only 'oh' and actually leave it at that. He might have taken the dog out at the end of it or he might not have. In which case the dog might do his business in the house and if I was you and your mom, I will simply make tracks early in the morning for him to take the consequences of his actions. Meaning, if it his responsibility, verbally agreed or simply by routine, then he must be allowed to experience what he chooses.

Problem is, that he probably has already lost the power of speech because he probably would have still taken the dog out even though he said he wouldnt. People who do not do as they say they would and do not say what they really will do, have long ago lost some power. The only way for them to get it back is to simply stay humble, step back, do not argue and allow them experience what they need to go through.

Remember, we are all right. Meaning, we are all ok. No matter how skew you are, or your dad is, it is simply where he is in his life, both spiritually and physically. Do not judge it. It is not your business. Let it be, brother, and all will be ok. You don't have to hold it all together for everybody else, leave them to attend to their own business.

Now, attend to your business as best you can!

Stay beautiful....
edit on 21-3-2013 by UnlimitedSky because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by liam8126
 


I wish I had the chance to do this but by the time I realized how much my father meant to me he had died.

Give your dad a hug and tell him you love him. Thank him for being your mentor and that you have grown into an independent thinker.

Tell him you love him, you can never say it enough

eta: take the dog for a walk, for the dogs sake and yours. Dogs love unconditionally and you will feel its love too
edit on 21-3-2013 by anoncoholic because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 11:32 AM
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I believe this is more a generation gap issue than anything else, common throughout the course of our human civilisation since it began. Nothing stays the same and change is the only constant in life. What we learnt yesterday is often a relic of the past, as new discoveries are made daily in under the trappings of progress and evolution.

Some pointers:-

1. Understand that NO human is perfect, or a genius, absolutely NONE. We as a race only progress by making mistakes, learning from it, correcting them and evolve.

2. Accept those flaws in every human, within yourself and your dad, and others around you.

3. Allow the necessity to 'agree to disagree', 'live and let live'.

4. Consider whatever that was demanded of you. You may have a better way to do things, but he may have his reasons for you to do as he commanded. Follow his command, do it and experience it. If his way works better, then use it. If not, then show him that you had tried and failed, and perhaps it is time for you to show your way.

Ask for that chance, but if rejected, do not be disappointed, for one day you will have to leave the family nest and make it out on your own, whereby you will have all the chance to do as you want. But for now, he does have a responsibility over you, for your growth into adulthood safe from harm, in the manner and way he had been taught and experienced in his adult life, which you had yet to come to experience.

5. Above all, respect him always. He is your dad and when you mature, he is your best friend for no dad will abandon his own children without regrets. Without him and his committment, love, care, concern and responsiblity to your growing life, you may not had even been born into this world.

Good luck and cheers.



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by liam8126
 



Liam8126. The issue here, I think, is that you must confess your father can be right. Isn't it that from somewhere in time you started to think your father is wrong on everything and you started to deny your father?

Don't kill your father. You must see that the things your father does is because there's a reason for it and that reason is because he loves your mother and he loves you. Try to see where you can make connection with your father. Maybe there's something bothering him, and you guys can come together again but see that your father has to have the role of your father. Even when you are a free lad (man) he remains your father and that should be someone whom you can trust and get affection of.

There can be the issue your father is insecure about some things about yourself or your family and your family needs to become close again. When there are problems in a family it is because of the whole family. Do not blame just one man/women. Be there to help eachother out and be able to comfort one another.

These were some thoughts on the topic 'family'.



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 05:16 AM
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Do not understimate your elder Liam****, he can be all about denying ignorance and all what you want to stand for. You are His son and you can have that personality from him. While you adapt more to what he wants, there can be a change what makes him more like you like him to be.

Isn't it you want to master your father? Let him be your father and he turns out to be well. Give him chance to be so. Something will be better that way.
edit on 22-3-2013 by Angle because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 05:29 AM
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Originally posted by liam8126
I am having major issues with my dad. My whole life he has always had to do things his way because they are the only right way, to put it simple he's extremely narrow minded. Now as you can guess as I have been learning more and more I am learning alot about how he thinks, and his logic which is flawed. He literally see's me as some stupid pot head teen who knows nothing, and everything I say is some sort of bull# if it defy's him. We will get in argument and I will point out why hes doing ignorant things then he just laughs or says something that has nothing to do with what I said, here's an example. Tonight at dinner he started to argue with my mom (who is on my side and totally understands me) by saying that hes not walking the dogs and that we have too (he walks them every night after dinner the only reason he said that is because he was angry with me from a previous argument), then I pointed out that fact, and he continued to reply "Oh really know it all?", then i said "Why did you have to add know it all? You were trying to provoke me to further argue with you" then he just laughed.... This happens all the time, me and my mom can literally never be right in his eyes unless it benefits him in some sort of way. What I'm here to ask is that do you guys know any possible ways that I can change the way he thinks, so maybe he can see things from our perspective, or actually take our opinions into perspective at all. Please guys I really need your help here I'm afraid if he cant change his way of thinking I wont be able to deal with him and well end up hating each other.

Thanks ATS

Liam


You may think his logic is flawed but when you live under his roof you will have to play the game - for your peace of mind. Just be aware of the fact that you don't see eye to eye. Believing you have your mom on your side gives you the illusion that you have more power than him so gets you up for a fight. Do you want fighting and conflict in your life? Or do you want some peace and understanding? You do not have to understand him - you have to understand how peace comes about. It will not just be your dad that this will happen with so if you want to have a conflict free life then your dad is a great training ground.
The only way you can change your dads behaviour is to change yours.

Transactional Analysis is a tool that is used to study dialogue between people. If you study it you will find better ways of communicating to get better results - no conflict. The tool enables each party to be heard and get their needs met. The problem with dialogue is there is often a winner and a loser but if you learn how to use Transaction Analysis you will not have losers - just winners.

Here is a video explaining Transactional Analysis - it might just turn your world around:
youtu.be...
This is an interview with Eric Berne - the inventor of the tool.
youtu.be...

Read his book called 'Games People Play'. Most people are not aware that they are playing games - they are surprised by what happens in human interactions.
edit on 22-3-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 05:29 AM
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You cried for help, give your father chance to help you.



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 05:38 AM
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The "Smokey Bear" philosophy is really the only way...."Only You can prevent a Forest Fire."

Apart from divine intervention, and pure luck, you are responsible for your own actions.

Create your own space, the way you want it, and then step into it.



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 05:42 AM
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Best post of the thread.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 06:26 AM
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I'm not sure if this would help you, but it's something to ponder anyway:

Stefan Molyneux: What is False Self?




posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 06:35 AM
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reply to post by liam8126
 


I flagged your thread because this "situation" is from all times and whatever answer is best in this thread can be valuable for every home living teen with the same problem.

I do not have the wisdom to solve this but the "unconditional" love solution has great potential to be a winner.

Chinese proverbs and wisdoms can also have an answer to this situation. Read Sun Tzu..."The art of War" maybe that can give you inspiration here.





edit on 22/3/2013 by zatara because: (no reason given)





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