"They're Definitely Aliens in Outer Space" Michio Kaku

Originally posted by Mykey057420

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by drakus

Originally posted by raj10463

we are alone until proven otherwise

I disagree.
We don't know which one is it.
But it is dead simple to prove they exist. As soon as we find either living people, or indications of civilization.
How would you prove there are no people besides us?

Right now, we-just-don't-know, there's nothing wrong with not having an answer yet.
And it is certainly no excuse to invent stories to hide that we don't know.

Exactly.

There is nothing wrong with saying "we don't know". We could make assumptions and form a belief based on the evidence, but frankly, we don't know. Like I said earlier, I personally think the available evidence (which is by definition circumstantial) is telling me that life elsewhere in the universe exists. I certainly BELIEVE that, but I don't KNOW that. And neither does science (yet).

There is no disgrace in not "knowing" something. I'm not sure why people feel the need to make themselves think that they "know" something when all they can do with the evidence at hand is "believe" something.

And going back to the premise of the OP...Even Machio Kaku does not "know" life exists elsewhere. He -- just like me -- can only assume (or believe) it exists, because the available circumstantial evidence tells us it does.

edit on 3/20/2013 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

I think based on the Drake equation we can claim "knowledge". Even with extremely conservative estimates.

It's a forgone conclusion life has evolved elsewhere, the size of the universe guarantees it.
I think the real tipping point for these scientist is all the planets we keep discovering. To claim less than being sure, would be dishonest.

basing a statistical probabilities on limited knowledge will result in error.

the forgone conclusion you mention is based on theory and not a proven fact. until hard science can produce life in the lab , ONLY THEN can science predict life on another place. Knowing the exact paramenters are paramount for correct statistic, if based on theories then your data will be flawed beyond usable.

science should move from these 'concensus' thingy as it dilute the science part and increase the b.s part.

the current global warming fiasco debate are based on insufficient data modelling that resulted in wrong conclusion. worse, the global warming data and concensus are used to drive political gain thus further diluting the real science/truth and increase the data manipulation.

the anecdote of "millions of monkeys typing for millions of years wont produce the work of even the lowliest poet let alone shakespeare" is still true and should a warning for using statistic for your own justification

BUT if you are saying this is a BELIEF SYSTEM then thats your right, just dont state is as FACT.

regards

Statistically, the odds of us being alone are low.

Take mankind for instance, we are here, so the chances of life already are better than nil. And our planet orbits one star, in a galaxy of one hundred billion plus stars.

And even if the odds of a star having a habitable planet in the Goldilocks zone are one in a billion, that still means that a hundred plus alien races could exist in our galaxy.

And there are tens of millions of galaxies. So potentially there are thousands of alien civilizations out there.

The question is if we'll ever make contact with them. I'll let Michio answer that question.

reply to post by pacifier2012


You cannot see it because the light from the center of our galaxy is blocked by an incredible amount of gas. Looking through a different spectrum you can see it just fine.

Based on what evidence? I read, and there is none, besides belief and staistics. Until actual evidence is presented, no conclusion can be formed. I feel ridiculous making that statement, since anyone who has participated in a 3rd grade science fair should have learned that.

Ever since man first set foot on the moon there has for sure been aliens

'They are'

Who is they exactly?

More shallow mind fluff from that omnipresent media whore, Michio Kaku.

Brian Cox - someone I find only marginally less irritating - at least makes observations grounded in testable, scientific facts.

Life 'out there', I'll start with life here, a single sun, bigger than average, a planet just the right size, with a huge amount of water, just the right distance from 'our' sun, with Oxygen, which I have been told does not occur naturally,
just the right gravity to hold onto the atmosphere, all the minerals needed for life, a magnetosphere to protect life from the suns deadly rays, Um, rather a lot of chance happenings in one place.
'Out there' most suns are binaries or trinaries, smaller, or hugely bigger than our sun, ( the nearest suns to ours, four and a half light years away, is a trinary) I think life 'out there' would have a struggle, and possibly not carbon based at all.

Originally posted by raj10463
the known universe (not including the rest of the undiscovered universe) is so large that there is the possibility of anything. a 99% chance that there is a planet full of only pink elephants that can fly. our universe is so big that there is a 99% chance that there is another earth, an exact replica. the universe is so big that it may as well be infinite.

edit on 20-3-2013 by raj10463 because: (no reason given)

I like that
The universe is infinite is it not?

if anyone today can blatantly say 'im sure there is life out there....' im sure he/she is speaking from belief and faith on whatever he believes..

this is not scientific.. using statistic to prop up your belief is ok, but never NEVER let say it is FACT.. everyone can believe all they want , but saying it is a FACT its wrong and not scientic.

so are you saying this from Faith or From Evidence ?

people already disbelieve God.. but now the same people believe in aliens with such faith ?

its a funny world nowadays where people learn to believe in material science and thinking everything can be solved by science. these people are replacing their belief in God with their own imagination and myth/fantasy. but hey its their right to believe anything they want =D i just dont want to be there at the end times

Originally posted by Anonbeleiver77

Originally posted by raj10463
the known universe (not including the rest of the undiscovered universe) is so large that there is the possibility of anything. a 99% chance that there is a planet full of only pink elephants that can fly. our universe is so big that there is a 99% chance that there is another earth, an exact replica. the universe is so big that it may as well be infinite.

edit on 20-3-2013 by raj10463 because: (no reason given)

I like that
The universe is infinite is it not?

nothing in material world last forever.. there are nothing material that infinite..

Originally posted by Danbones
Ever since man first set foot on the moon there has for sure been aliens

man is the 'alien' on the moon then

First: duh. Massive universe, life probably occurs all over it.

Second:

When I debate atheist and skeptics they're the ones that seem scared to death of their existence. I think it's because the next natural question will be, did these advanced civilizations start some of the worlds religions.

???

I'm not sure why that would threaten an atheist. It might put the willies up a religious person when it turns out their 'creator god' was actually a visiting alien who needed humans to do a spot of mining in the Levant.

It would make sense of some of the texts in the Mahabharata, which are a perfect description of a nuke going off, right down to teeth and hair falling afterwards.

Atheist.

reply to post by neoholographic


given the vast size of the galaxy, much less the universe, I'd agree that extraterrestrial life is a statistical certainty, IMHO. (Notice I said "opinion" not fact--nothing is fact without evidence.)

For me the question is not whether or not intelligent life exists out there, I think it's statistically almost certain that they do. The question for me is whether or not intelligent life has visited this planet before and in that regard I say it's not likely at all given the vastness of the universe.

There's no evidence that they have.. And citing grainy videos, out of focus photos or witness testimony isn't proof of anything.

What we would need is solid evidence, otherwise I'll always remain skeptical because people can make up anything they want, forge photos, fake videos and genuinely misidentify objects in the night sky..

Mmmmm peas.

Originally posted by Templeton
Michio Kaku is cool and I like listening to him. He does not hold much credibility in regard to aliens though. His take is based on a [near] infinite space resulting in all things even with the smallest chance eventually happening.

However. There is ZERO physical evidence of alien intelligence. We are not talking about finding a marble in the ocean. We are talking about an infinite number of marbles looks in the same ocean for just one of an infinite number of other marbles. We would know.

I think Fermi's paradox sums it up best:

The apparent size and age of the universe suggest that many technologically advanced extraterrestrial civilizations ought to exist. However, this hypothesis seems inconsistent with the lack of observational evidence to support it.

I want to take a shovel to Fermi's paradox I hate it so much!

First of all, it's not a paradox, just an observation that we haven't observed aliens yet. Why is that surprising?

We can't even image the closest solar systems to us yet.
Our latest probe on Mars is not even testing for life directly.
We are only just discovering a massive biome in the ocean and under the Earth's crust we didn't know anything about.

Where's the paradox?

Originally posted by CJCrawley
More shallow mind fluff from that omnipresent media whore, Michio Kaku.

Brian Cox - someone I find only marginally less irritating - at least makes observations grounded in testable, scientific facts.

You do him a disservice. Anybody with an understanding of evolution and the abilities of microbes to survive in extremely diverse environments would say that life exists out there, at least microbial life. How come life got started on Earth 4.5 billion years ago as soon as it cooled? Rather odd coincidence eh?

Through massive climate change and huge atmospheric changes microbes stuck around and prospered, even changing the Earth with them. Even today we are discovering amazing new things about them all the time.

www.abc.net.au...
www.latimes.com...

Read that again and think about it.....
'How come life got started on Earth 4.5 billion years ago as soon as the crust cooled? Rather odd coincidence eh?'

Michio Kaku is a great sci-fi writer, but a terrible scientist.

Just because we exist means nothing. Koala bears can be found in Australia, so they must be everywhere, right? That's his entire basis for his statement. We exist, so there must be others. That's so incredibly naive and unscientific.

Kaku, stick to your History Channel spots where you say lightsabers are possible.

As the wheel turns.... Kaku, the new Sagan, is given lease to tell us the simple truth that anyone worthy of self thought could have decided at least back in 1947.

The mass of humanity has been constantly told from early on in the UFO saga that Science couldn't make a definite determination of the phenomena and thus, must, by its basic rules, withhold judgment until such time that it had done sufficient studies to do so. And over a half of a century later that has never been allowed to happen and so the public lingers on n limbo, waiting.

Yet, in the true facts of the matter, it has not been a situation that hinged upon the applications of Science at all, but simply a mechanicalistic and arbitrary rule of Science that humans had drawn up for themselves to not consider anything that they didn't want to think of. And they didn't want to think of aliens being here and now. And when TPTB did get around to thinking in those terms, which was early on, the matter became and remains an intelligence matter as closely held as any secret ever held by a government and definitely notText a matter of Science with either a big or a small "S."