Paul 'Pearl Harbour' Wolfowitz- Evidence days after 9/11

Originally posted by Alfie1

Fact is that the $2.3 trillion was said to be not properly reconciled over several years of DoD expenditure and it all way preceded the GWB administration.

It was subsequently largely reconciled. Do "black budgets" need to be reconciled ?

I think the pattern of behavior here is becoming crystal clear. Time after time after time it's been explained how the material the conspiracy proponents are putting out is hogwash and yet they continue to repeat it. I personally can attest how the so called trillion missing dollars has been explained to be a deliberately misrepresnted accounting error and yet they still hold onto the claim like gospel. Worse, they continuously use the claim as "proof" to bake up OTHER repeatedly debunked claims like this whole "new Pearl Harbor" thread.

It's as if the conspiracy proponents are perpetually stuck in time, like the way North Korea thinks they're still living in 1950, by constantly repeating ten year old information and pretending nothing has changed since then. President Bush leaving office, all our troops leaving Iraq, and our finding/killing Bin Laden, aren't even remotely on their radar. I have to ask- just how much "research" do these people pushing these claims actually do? From where I sit they don't even bother to search ATS to see whether it's been addressed before, let alone a Google search.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Alfie1

Fact is that the $2.3 trillion was said to be not properly reconciled over several years of DoD expenditure and it all way preceded the GWB administration.

It was subsequently largely reconciled. Do "black budgets" need to be reconciled ?

I think the pattern of behavior here is becoming crystal clear. Time after time after time it's been explained how the material the conspiracy proponents are putting out is hogwash and yet they continue to repeat it. I personally can attest how the so called trillion missing dollars has been explained to be a deliberately misrepresnted accounting error and yet they still hold onto the claim like gospel. Worse, they continuously use the claim as "proof" to bake up OTHER repeatedly debunked claims like this whole "new Pearl Harbor" thread.

It's as if the conspiracy proponents are perpetually stuck in time, like the way North Korea thinks they're still living in 1950, by constantly repeating ten year old information and pretending nothing has changed since then. President Bush leaving office, all our troops leaving Iraq, and our finding/killing Bin Laden, aren't even remotely on their radar. I have to ask- just how much "research" do these people pushing these claims actually do? From where I sit they don't even bother to search ATS to see whether it's been addressed before, let alone a Google search.

You miss the point. As usual.

It is the fact that Rumsfeld, member of the PNAC and huge proponent of American military missions in the middle east mentioned the unnaccounted for 'trillions' ONE DAY BEFORE 9/11.

Dov Zakheim, another member of the PNAC was charged with investigating the money that was missing as he was Comptroller of the Pentagon.

Please provide a link that shows every single cent of that money has been accounted for since 9/11. The figure has been rectified, in fact it went to $700 billion, which is still a LOT of money.

That fact is, that money has been spent and no one officially knows where it was spent.

This is the last offical mention of that, dated Feb 2002-

www.defense.gov...

Billions of dollars of DoD taxpayer-provided money haven't disappeared, Zakheim said. "Missing" expenditures are often reconciled a bit later in the same way people balance their checkbooks every month. The bank closes out a month and sends its bank statement, he said. In the meanwhile, people write more checks, and so they have to reconcile their checkbook register and the statement.

DoD financial experts, Zakheim said, are making good progress reconciling the department's "lost" expenditures, trimming them from a prior estimated total of $2.3 trillion to $700 billion. And, he added, the amount continues to drop.

"We're getting it down and we are redesigning our systems so we'll go down from 600-odd systems to maybe 50," he explained.

"That way, we will give people not so much more money, but a comfort factor, to be sure that every last taxpayer penny is accounted for," he concluded.

That was 2002, so where is the money and where was it spent?

reply to post by Wonderer2012



But you seem to be missing a few points :-

1) 9/10/01 was not the first time Rumsfeld had referred to trillions not properly accounted for.

2) Rumsfeld was under no obligation at all to make these references and why would he if he had anything to hide.

3) Fact is that the $2.3 trillion had been referred to in a D o D audit for fiscal year 1999, so well before Rumsfeld had anything to do with it :-

www.defense.gov...

Why aren't you commenting on Bill Clinton and William Cohen who was Defense Secretary at the time ?

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

But you seem to be missing a few points :-

1) 9/10/01 was not the first time Rumsfeld had referred to trillions not properly accounted for.

2) Rumsfeld was under no obligation at all to make these references and why would he if he had anything to hide.

3) Fact is that the $2.3 trillion had been referred to in a D o D audit for fiscal year 1999, so well before Rumsfeld had anything to do with it :-

www.defense.gov...

Why aren't you commenting on Bill Clinton and William Cohen who was Defense Secretary at the time ?

Rumsfeld has been an influence for many years-



Could you please link to where Rumsfeld mentioned 'missing trillions' other than on the day before 9/11?

reply to post by Wonderer2012


This is Rumsfeld answering press questions in June 2001. You have to scroll down a bit but he refers to inability to locate trillions in his answer to question 21 or thereabouts :-

www.defense.gov...

He also made these remarks to the House Appropriations Committee on july 16 2001 " the financial systems of the department are so snarled up that we can't account for some $2.6 trillion in transactions that exist."

It is quite clear that Rumsfeld was not at all secretive about the unaccounted for trillions but then it hadn't happened on his watch. What he was pushing for was reform and modernisation of the Pentagon's antiquated accounting systems.

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

This is Rumsfeld answering press questions in June 2001. You have to scroll down a bit but he refers to inability to locate trillions in his answer to question 21 or thereabouts :-

www.defense.gov...

He also made these remarks to the House Appropriations Committee on july 16 2001 " the financial systems of the department are so snarled up that we can't account for some $2.6 trillion in transactions that exist."

It is quite clear that Rumsfeld was not at all secretive about the unaccounted for trillions but then it hadn't happened on his watch. What he was pushing for was reform and modernisation of the Pentagon's antiquated accounting systems.

edit on 28-3-2013 by Alfie1 because: (no reason given)

Cheers, I guess that just about clears the name of Rumsfeld, God bless this true American, lover of freedom and peace the world over.

reply to post by Alfie1


Wow so he already talked about the missing trillions in June. What a coincidence. No one is going to believe that was just coincidence, it must have been a secret cover up for 911. What else can it be.

(yup, I know sarcasm too, though my sarcasm is more in line with the actual thought processes going on in some heads)

Originally posted by Wonderer2012

Cheers, I guess that just about clears the name of Rumsfeld, God bless this true American, lover of freedom and peace the world over.

Nice attempt at misdirection. The fact is, you've been caught red handed spreading conspiracy misinformation to instigate false paranoia. I'm not saying this to embarass you or to make you feel bad about yourself. I'm saying it because those damned fool conspiracy web sites invented that whole fake "missing trillion dollars" story to sucker people into believing there's some sinister secret conspiracy going on, because there's no way something as unrepentently phony like that could have been reported accidentally.

If they've resorted to inventing this fake story to con people, it's a given they'll resort to inventing other fake stories to con people. This is no reflection on you because you yourself are just the victim in their con.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


How did I know your linked to article would be from 11 years after 9/11...and at the very point that the American public has finally been completely bankrupted by the last ten year crusade to wipe out the Islam o-Fascists(as your ilk love to call them)...

Please G.O.D. give it a rest, arguing that the "Rebuilding Americas Defenses" paper by PNAC was simply reiterating our governments long time established policy is ridiculous. Almost every key player in the soon to be Bush administration attached their names to that document..Because they were determined to change, what was in their view a soon to be militarily powerless USA. They even had the foresight to explain to the very people they were trying to effect..that even if they wanted to do this , the American public would not go along less a "new pearl harbor" as they so eloquently put it.

Which miraculously they would all get a year later, which they all made sure to use, to accomplish all those goals(in their paper). They got their giant bases in Iraq, Afghanistan was and still is completely occupied by us..our forces once again had the latest and greatest, tested and true military weapons and hardware...and for a time our forces ballooned to gigantic numbers (along with the military's budget)and lets not forget the Intelligence industrial complex which also grew to unbelievably gigantic proportions...

Only now 12 years later is it all beginning to take on the appearance that it is falling apart...time will tell..but if it truly does it will only be because they completely pilfered the coffers.

I really hate people who generalize and stereotype others.

I don't make accusations without evidence but as far as I'm concerned the government is not an entity to be trusted and based on all the inconsistites of the 9/11 Commission and "OS" there are many who have investigated on their own.

Some would rather explain away coincidences but given the governments penchant for lying I take the time to truly put them into perspective with institutional analysis.

There are plenty of "conspiracy theorists" out there who have their facts wrong, but that does not discount the whole subject. As far as PNAC goes, I've never heard anyone myself say that it was some sort of blueprint just to go to war with Iraq or Afghanistan, there were already other plans for war on the table even before Bush won the 2000 election, including another famous PNAC policy paper during the Clinton years advocating he take Saddam Hussein out. As the foaming at the mouth OS defenders point out, it is an effort towards creating a Pax Americana and a major shift in US foreign policy specifically concerning the Middle East in order to preempt any global adversaries. "Rebuilding Americas Defenses"

And they were not just your average "think tank". It was a Dream Team of neo-conservative policy makers, many of which who wound up in the very next presidential administration, including the next Vice President of the United States and other very important figures associated with PNAC - William Kristol, Robert Kagan, Elliot Abrams, Bill Bennett, Scooter Libby, Jeb Bush, Paula Dobriansky, Donald Rumsfeld, Frank Gaffney, Vin Weber, Richard L. Armitage, John Bolton, Richard Perle, Daniel Pipes, James Woolsey, Dov Zakheim, Robert Zoellick, Zalmay Khalilzad, Eliot Cohen, and of course Paul Wolfowitz.

Keep your chin up, Wonderer, we don't know everything but the truth is on our side. As I'm sure you are aware, these sorts of things take years of research and a patience for sifting through years and years of information and "coincidences".

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Wonderer2012

Cheers, I guess that just about clears the name of Rumsfeld, God bless this true American, lover of freedom and peace the world over.

Nice attempt at misdirection. The fact is, you've been caught red handed spreading conspiracy misinformation to instigate false paranoia. I'm not saying this to embarass you or to make you feel bad about yourself. I'm saying it because those damned fool conspiracy web sites invented that whole fake "missing trillion dollars" story to sucker people into believing there's some sinister secret conspiracy going on, because there's no way something as unrepentently phony like that could have been reported accidentally.

If they've resorted to inventing this fake story to con people, it's a given they'll resort to inventing other fake stories to con people. This is no reflection on you because you yourself are just the victim in their con.

It is called sarcasm. I would imagine less than 0.1% of America knew Rumsfeld mentioned this in June 2001, I mean it took me about 5 minutes to find the reference in the link Alfie provided even though I was looking for it!

The first 'mainstream' mention of it was 10/09/01, one day before 9/11.

Even with Alfie showing Rumsfeld had mentioned it before, that still does not make everything else false, I know Wolfowitz is an evil, evil man who plots and schemes and uses human lives as pawns in a game.

The PNAC consisted of incredibly powerful men who essentially controlled American policy and 9/11 helped their ideas for transofrmation take shape, you would have to be pretty ignorant to not be able to see this given Afghanistan was invaded one month after 9/11 and the American military expenditure rose to out of control levels in the post 9/11 years.

Originally posted by PatriotGames2
I really hate people who generalize and stereotype others.

I don't make accusations without evidence but as far as I'm concerned the government is not an entity to be trusted and based on all the inconsistites of the 9/11 Commission and "OS" there are many who have investigated on their own.

Some would rather explain away coincidences but given the governments penchant for lying I take the time to truly put them into perspective with institutional analysis.

There are plenty of "conspiracy theorists" out there who have their facts wrong, but that does not discount the whole subject. As far as PNAC goes, I've never heard anyone myself say that it was some sort of blueprint just to go to war with Iraq or Afghanistan, there were already other plans for war on the table even before Bush won the 2000 election, including another famous PNAC policy paper during the Clinton years advocating he take Saddam Hussein out. As the foaming at the mouth OS defenders point out, it is an effort towards creating a Pax Americana and a major shift in US foreign policy specifically concerning the Middle East in order to preempt any global adversaries. "Rebuilding Americas Defenses"

And they were not just your average "think tank". It was a Dream Team of neo-conservative policy makers, many of which who wound up in the very next presidential administration, including the next Vice President of the United States and other very important figures associated with PNAC - William Kristol, Robert Kagan, Elliot Abrams, Bill Bennett, Scooter Libby, Jeb Bush, Paula Dobriansky, Donald Rumsfeld, Frank Gaffney, Vin Weber, Richard L. Armitage, John Bolton, Richard Perle, Daniel Pipes, James Woolsey, Dov Zakheim, Robert Zoellick, Zalmay Khalilzad, Eliot Cohen, and of course Paul Wolfowitz.

Keep your chin up, Wonderer, we don't know everything but the truth is on our side. As I'm sure you are aware, these sorts of things take years of research and a patience for sifting through years and years of information and "coincidences".

Thanks, I have actually learnt something new from this thread.

'Transformation' from the RAD document I took out of context in the OP, although in the end given what is discussed in the document, 'transformation' of the military was needed to make 21st century American foreign policy possible.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Wonderer2012

Cheers, I guess that just about clears the name of Rumsfeld, God bless this true American, lover of freedom and peace the world over.

Nice attempt at misdirection. The fact is, you've been caught red handed spreading conspiracy misinformation to instigate false paranoia. I'm not saying this to embarass you or to make you feel bad about yourself. I'm saying it because those damned fool conspiracy web sites invented that whole fake "missing trillion dollars" story to sucker people into believing there's some sinister secret conspiracy going on, because there's no way something as unrepentently phony like that could have been reported accidentally.

If they've resorted to inventing this fake story to con people, it's a given they'll resort to inventing other fake stories to con people. This is no reflection on you because you yourself are just the victim in their con.

I will make this my last post in this thread. You have repeated many times that I am trying to instigate false paranoia. This is, in fairness, a 9/11 conspiracy section of the forum.

What I have discussed is not false-

- Paul Wolfowitz.

- Member of the PNAC.

- PNAC document released one year before 9/11 discussed the transformation of the American military for the 21st century, talks about countries like Iraq, Libya, Iran, even North Korea. This document argues that this transormation would need a catalyst, a 'New Pearl Harbour' to be accepted.

- June 2001, Wolfowitz, involved with the above PNAC document, addresses students, months before the Pearl Harbour anniversary and completely out of context discusses Pearl Harbour and suprise attacks. He discusses America's 'poverty of expectations', that is he thinks America is too relaxed and isn't aware that 'event's can happen to change the world.

- 9/11 happens.

- 3 days after 9/11, Wolfowitz is interviewed and literally references America's military response with Pearl Harbour.

That is what this thread discusses, whilst it may not be concrete evidence, given the countries targeted post 9/11 and the other folks involved with the PNAC, I can only really reach one conclusion- that elements within the PNAC and therefore the administration knew, at the very least, that 9/11 had been planned and going to happen.

That is MY belief, so let us leave it there Good Old Dave.

I won't reply in this thread again, that does not mean any post you make after this proves you right.