Americans Are Losing Their Religion -- But the Fundamentalists Have a Plan

reply to post by wildtimes


I'm torn by the boot camp videos. On the one hand, I don't think it's a bad thing for kids to get a gut understanding that not everyone lives in an iPod world, and it IS their own parents decision how they should be raised - but on the other hand, there is something fundamentally flawed with using kids as religious ambassadors when they are not yet developed enough to understand and analyze their OWN religion, much less impart it to others.

Then there is the slightly creepy feeling of parents selling their kids into a sort of slavery. They do that in India, I understand - sell their daughters into prostitution by dedicating them to some goddess named "Yelema" or something like that. It seems to be an activity frowned upon here, so why are these parents essentially doing the same thing?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

The late Professor Antony Sutton showed how the Order of Skull and Bones changed the educational system by inserting John Dewey(a signer of the Humanist Manifesto) who believed that children were the property of the State and that it was the State's responsibility to mold them into whatever little cog in the wheel the State wanted.

And how in the hell is that any different from evangelists going abroad and threatening innocent people with hell-fire? Or teaching LITTLE KIDS to do so in their stead? It's disgusting

Those of us who are educated know that the 'school system' is designed to produce cogs in the wheel. You think you just discovered that?

reply to post by wildtimes


The church is shrinking and "mega" churches are growing simply because there is division in churchs about some issues and because many congregations pressure pastors to preach what they want to hear. whether it be preaching more fire and brimstone or to go against teachings.

Mega churches cater to what people want and are simply there for profit. The bigger the congregation the bigger the tithe. Them doing that has boomed their growth and has allowed them to spread all over the world.

I spent plenty of time in the church(lutheran) and I saw all this first hand. all the politics and drama in it. You would think it would be all about the teachings and message but it is not. The same problems you find in your workplace you find there.

My father is a pastor and his friend as well. They both left very successful careers to pursue this. Why I will never understand as people simply use the church. many believe the church uses the congregation but you are sorely mistaken. I have been on the receiving end of the congregation using the church. I have seen my father used. However if the church is only out for itself then yes it can exploit the congregation. At that point then that church is not really doing what it is supposed to.

I do not attend church on a regular basis anymore. Simply because of the problems that plague it right now. My father even suggest to just stay away. He is still working in the church but his mission out in the southwest and mexico is kinda the black sheep of the whole synod simply because they don't play political ball.

I have seen the good and bad in the church. It does do much good. Sometimes you do reach people and that is what makes it all worth it. It is a calling as I could not put up with all the crap they have to go through. For example how you condemn their work based on those who exploit it.

The problems the church is having has not only given growth to mega church's but it has also caused growth in other religions such as islam. Some people are looking for a foundation. For some reason people need that, I can go into why but that is a whole different discussion. If the "protestant" churchs are having problem with identity simply because they are being harassed to conform to the congregation or "the times" many lose faith in the church simply because it is changing only to conform and it is not a solid foundation. S its principles and teachings may change simply to follow a trend in society to stay relevant. It would be like the poser kid who keeps trying to change so people like them.

Originally posted by wildtimes

And how in the hell is that any different from evangelists going abroad and threatening innocent people with hell-fire? Ot teaching LITTLE KIDS to do so in their stead? It's disgusting

It's not ANY different - but I think the point is that "indoctrination begins at 'home' ". Without indoctrinating them to behave in a certain way here, they can't be counted on to behave in a certain way THERE. Even the Christians understand that - "teach a child in the way he should go when he is young, and when he is old he will not depart from it".

The missionary types seem to be making "good" use of that strategy, implemented at first by the State.

reply to post by wildtimes

Those of us who are educated know that the 'school system' is designed to produce cogs in the wheel.

Either you know it and are on board with it, or you are bluffing. Which one is it?
No, I didn't just discover it, I've known about this since the early 80's but I think you believe in the power of the State over the rights of individuals. It seems that way to me by your posts over time. Do you believe it is the right of the State to seize control of the child from his rightful guardians, the parents? Seems that way to me or you would entirely understand my post.

You seem to have a hatred of evangelism and believe it to be more destructive than say....oh how about Communism, which destroyed the orthodox churches in Russia and seized control of them and persecuted the clergy and persecuted those practicing the faith...and oh by the way they murdered and imprisoned millions of innocent people.

I guess you would rather have the secular religion of Communism.

You have also completely missed my point of how much control secular humanism has on society as a controlling factor.

You just hate that religions haven't folded and given the State complete control.

And what about my point that Progressives who hate Christianity seem to have no problem allowing Sharia Law into our Courts? Oh the hypocrisy of it all.
Perhaps you hate Sharia as much as you hate Protestantism.

reply to post by votan

I'm glad you decided to post after all.
Thanks for your contribution.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Do you believe it is the right of the State to seize control of the child from his rightful guardians, the parents?

I think you need to calm down.
No, it's not the right of the State to seize control of the child......
it's the responsibility of the parents to adequately educate their children to be tolerant and able to think critically.
I know I get your hackles up, ThirdEye, I've known it for some time.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

So I am not allowed to post here because you are the thread police? You don't like my ideas so you feel you must decide if I can post?

When did I say that???
I said I was amazed that you did.
Of course you're "allowed"!!

As for your ideas, I think they are bizarre. I'm not promoting anything except the cessation of westerners imposing their beliefs on others.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Do you believe it is the right of the State to seize control of the child from his rightful guardians, the parents?

I think you need to calm down.
No, it's not the right of the State to seize control of the child......
it's the responsibility of the parents to adequately educate their children to be tolerant and able to think critically.
I know I get your hackles up, ThirdEye, I've known it for some time.

No, I don't need to calm down. I am quite calm. Just because you don't like it when people challenge you doesn't mean they need to calm down.

You have in practically every post I've read of yours advocated the power of the State over individual rights. You do it in the name of feeding the poor and hungry children. And when people challenge you, you use some kind of insult that the challengers must be rich and wealthy.
What about Bill and Melinda Gates and their pumping millions of dollars into education to promote the Obama agenda?
It is the wealthy by far promoting globalism and a One World State.
Furthermore, if you have the right to post a thread which is a rant against religion, why can't I counter it with the very physical and tangible effects secular humanism has on the world? It is point/counterpoint.
Marxists used class warfare to promote their agenda. That means an attack on the "bourgeoisie" Capitalists. You don't seem to understand that Socialists use whatever means they can to promote their Utopian ideals, and that often comes as some kind of social program designed to "help" the underclass.

reply to post by wildtimes


You know, I'm thinking a Progressive Church of Synergetic Independence might do this world some good. A church that promotes the ability to sustain our spirituality as an individual while also assisting the cohesion of spiritual interactivity amongst a community. Not a religion, just a support group for the spiritualists.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

You have in practically every post I've read of yours advocated the power of the State over individual rights. You do it in the name of feeding the poor and hungry children. And when people challenge you, you use some kind of insult that the challengers must be rich and wealthy.
What about Bill and Melinda Gates and their pumping millions of dollars into education to promote the Obama agenda?

I think Bill and Melinda Gates are benefiting the progressive movement of the US. I have no issues with them at all.

I do not advocate the "power of the State over individual rights".
I advocate for justice, global understanding (cultural competence, if you know what that means. If not, I'll be happy to tell you about it) and compassion.

No one should have to starve, or be poverty-stricken. It's incumbent on all of us to see to it that it stops.

And I was accused of "seething with hatred"!

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

And what about my point that Progressives who hate Christianity seem to have no problem allowing Sharia Law into our Courts? Oh the hypocrisy of it all.
Perhaps you hate Sharia as much as you hate Protestantism.

I'm curious now - where is it you live that they are implementing Sharia in the courts there? I'm genuinely curious - if it's anywhere in the US, I may have something for them to chew on - to chew on until they choke to death on it. If it's the UK, though, you're probably out of luck - they forsook their rights to self-government long ago.

If they tried it around here where I am, it would make Baghdad on a Saturday night look like a sleepy little town. You know - lots of explosions and gunfire and stuff.

OP - it's on topic... if the Sharia is being evangelized anywhere here, I want to know just the same as Muslims want to know when Christianity is being evangelized THERE. Either direction, it's a bad thing and ought to be stopped (or at the very least met with equal opposition) before it gets out of hand.

reply to post by nenothtu

That's also why I detest those brow-beating "altar calls".

What's an "altar call"?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

A church that promotes the ability to sustain our spirituality as an individual while also assisting the cohesion of spiritual interactivity amongst a community. Not a religion, just a support group for the spiritualists.

I love it!!!
Yes. Great idea.

reply to post by wildtimes

I think Bill and Melinda gates are benefiting the progressive movement of the US. I have no issues with them at all.

And why am I not surprised by this? You have no problem with them controlling education, and yet you insult me by asserting that somehow I must be wealthy because I oppose the State intrusion into our lives. But I knew this, which is why I used Bill and Melinda Gates as the perfect example of wealthy globalist control.

Interestingly, Melinda is supposedly Catholic, as are Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden, all excellent examples of Progressives. Just because a person grows up in a certain "religion" doesn't mean they adhere to the core religious principles, as a real Catholic would never embrace abortion. But it is protestants you seem to hate so much.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

reply to post by wildtimes


Excuse me if I'm interrupting your lovers' quarrel, but what does your discussion have to do with the topic?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

ThirdEye,
I would like nothing better than you and I coming to some kind of detante.

I had no idea that you actually pay attention to my threads or posts. I don't understand why you insist on vilifying me as a Commie Crazy.

You really, truly, do not understand my points?
People need to recognize that everyone alive has dignity, has worth, and those who are hurting - whether emotionally or physically - need us (who have more than we need) to help them. That means nothing to you?

Why do you insist on saying that I'm some sort of Commie Monster?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


What???
Nono, please don't add drama to the disagreement. You are right, the interaction was off topic.
ThirdEye and I have clashed before. I don't agree with her, and that is that.
Thanks for pointing it out.

Originally posted by wildtimes

I'm not promoting anything except the cessation of westerners imposing their beliefs on others.

Either direction - "westerners" are not solely at fault. Imposition is bad whatever direction it goes.

Imposition just needs to cease... not only "western" imposition.

Originally posted by wildtimes

No one should have to starve, or be poverty-stricken. It's incumbent on all of us to see to it that it stops.

And I was accused of "seething with hatred"!

I think that I'm probably the one "seething with hatred", because it don't see that it's incumbent upon me to stop anything at all that is outside my own sphere of influence. If starvation and poverty are to be addressed, then those in that sphere ought to see to it - it's not in my remit.