Americans Are Losing Their Religion -- But the Fundamentalists Have a Plan

reply to post by wildtimes


Don't disagree with you here!
I just think that using the state to achieve those goals is dangerous.

reply to post by wildtimes


"save ourselves"....surely you jest. We have done such a wonderful job of that so far.....

Heaven's way is not your way honey,(if you are female) or mine. You put a few "Christians" out front to speak for us all? The way of Jesus is not the way of most of the very visible "Christians" but the way of a minority of true believers. We follow the teachings and live by the code(as much as we can being fallible humans)
You spew venom about fundamentalists or I guess Christians but even the worst of us, don't come close to what's happening in every country in the world including the USA when it comes to the real religion of hate. NO...just fear of reprisal so you and every other you keeps your mouth shut....afraid of not being politically correct or something.
Yes I'm apparently the blame for all the world's evils.....just a crazy, insane, follower of Christ Jesus..

We need more real Christians, not power-hungry religious politicizers.
2nd

Having been a direct part of this plan for my formative years i can
say with first hand knowledge that this is happening and in the very
nefarious way it is made out, yes they are indeed indoctrinating children
in third world countries that have high populations that need hope,
the sad part is they are giving them false hope.

The scary part is how they are going in under the guise of being
a friendly merchant and becoming close with the locals so that
they might "sneak" this idea in, because if you go in and tell them
flat out your there to bring religion most wouldn't want much to
do with you.......

I feel that this is a huge mistake for religion in general but hey
you know, influencing those who don't understand is the way
that religion works, sad part is that now they cant hide it the
way they used to and as those countries develop and become
more modern you will of course see the same thing happen
as does in any country when they learn the truth.

Also this puts into stark contrast the fact that even though third
world countries are far more religious than 1st world countries they
are obviously not more successful which is simply another
reaffirmation that religion does not really help.

wmeinc.blogspot.com...

The link i placed above is a good place to watch the videos
and get an idea of what they wish to do, when i was part
of the missions field we did more medical and food aid
than what they are doing now, its become so focused on
simply getting the religion there that they have lost most
of the programs that directly help with supplies, sad sad day.

Originally posted by pacifier2012
Written like a true homosexual with a hidden agenda. You spread your own religion in your own way. A bit two faced don't you think, considering you want children in preschools to learn about homosexuality and want to see all people to come to what you believe is true and right?

I can validate that wildtimes is not - I repeat, NOT - a "homosexual with a hidden agenda". Your accusation thereof, however, does seem to betray a certain personal... insecurity... though.

Fact is, there are just some of us around who don't think it's our place, or responsibility, to decide FOR others how they are to conduct their own personal affairs. That would seem to be a matter to be settled between themselves and their maker - if any - when the time for that meeting comes.

Seriously, if YOU are secure in who and what YOU are, why would you feel a need to "protect yourself" from what other people do amongst themselves in their off time? Do you think you can catch homosexuality or something?

Originally posted by gadfire
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.-Mark 16:15

Yes, he did. Pay close attention here - this is where it gets tricky - look at what he did NOT say! he did NOT say "go into all the world and get involved in their politics", he did not say "make laws in the secular realm that belong to the spiritual one" (he did, however, mention at another time the propriety of giving to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and to God what belongs to God - I'm taking "Caesar" to represent secular governments) and he did not say "go into all the world and shove your beliefs down their throats". When one does stupid stuff like that, he pushes his "converts" away. Folks naturally reject out of hand what is forced on them, and preaching when you don't want to hear it is as annoying as it gets. That is counterproductive. People who do that are actually working AGAINST their god, whoever that may be. I don't know their god, nor do I want to. It seems a terribly pushy sort of god.

"Christians" who participate in such shenanigans are in reality anti-christs. They are working against their god.

reply to post by wildtimes


You must have skipped history class because IM pretty sure this has been going on since Christianity has "spread its word"


its always done among the poor, uneducated, or in areas of complete destitute such as a war torn country right after a war or in a ghetto.

Its all a farce just look at all the religions on the planet, I haven't run into a person belonging to any of them that practice what they preach to the T.

It was a great control mechanism for the first half of humanity,,,,, now we need something scarier than a fake dude in the sky.

reply to post by bloodreviara


"Also this puts into stark contrast the fact that even though third
world countries are far more religious than 1st world countries they
are obviously not more successful which is simply another
reaffirmation that religion does not really help. "


or that god doesnt exsist or hates these people

eff it waste of time

Isn't the premise of this thread promoting the exact same intoloerance and fearmongering against christianity as it alledges that religion is doing to homosexuality and woman's rights? It seems so, as the OP is supporting the "Stompping out" or "wipping out" of a religious group? Or, the idea of having people reeducated? If anything those two solutions should expose the spirit of what is really wanted done, and that should terrify any reasonible person.

Have we not seen this ideology in history before folks?

The OP is supporting an extreamist hateful position against not just a religion, but how one thinks and feels about one should live their life. Hypocrisy. This thread is not bringing people together in love, but seperating them with hate, and no doubt supporting the systematic removal of people of faith. This should shake you to the core, even if your not religious. Because, when the people of faith are delt with, who will be next? You...me..your neighbor?

I read the article which was linked. It is a piece of propaganda which (if terms were changed) any tyrant would be proud of to dehumanise a group and justify genocide. The "spirit" of that writing is clear for anyone to see. It is extreamly biased and is a gross misrepresentation of several groups of people.
1. People of faith - I have NEVER encountered ANY people of faith who are portrayed as such in the fiction the OP provided. People of faith are instructed to love and not spread fear and prejudice. In the christian tradition, people are to care and minister to people...all people...to love the sinner and not the sin.
2. Homosexuals - These are harrd working, caring, loving poeple. Many homosexuals are more connected to how they feel than any other group out there. Many just want to "be who they are" and live life just as any other person. Many are not defined by who they sleep with and are not wanting to "change the world", but just live life and be happy.
3. Non-westerners - Are westerners so arrogant that they think they know what is best for the rest of the world. They feel they have to save the world because they are smarter or have more common sense to take care of other peoples. The fact is the west feels it can tell everyone what to do because they have more resources than everyone else...that is wrong. People outside of N. America and Europe have the same ability (if not more) to reason and navigate the storms of life without the west telling them what to do, how to feel, and what's right for their culture.

So I'll call this tread what it is...a hateful troll thread, as it managed to degrade the groups I mentioned above. Perhapes it would have been better if it had logical real world solutions. As for me, I suppose I will get flamed, so no use in responding as I can't change opinion. I just felt I should say something. /rant.

reply to post by Siberbat


Yes the Op is singleing out a certain group of people and applying it to mean all people that preach the gospel are this way.

reply to post by wildtimes

I actually read your response/post with interest (as per usual), but then you said this

What you should actually do is REALLY read my post....really read the source link on Sodom and Gomorrah provided...Really follow up by Watching the attached 27 min video to the article....really follow up by reading the attached complimentary articles at the bottom of the source linked paged.

I didn't just put the linked information into the post for the sheer fun of it, to win an argument, it is for your own benefit so that your own faith in Christianity can grow by a solid evidence base. My own Christianity is so supported by evidence that it would be remiss to call it a faith...but rather a knowing.

When you want to imply in your posts that Christianity is a religion based on no worthwhile evidence to support it and therefore Christians are merely following something blindly/ignorantly, that all Christian evangelism should be banned because not only is the religion a fantasy but it creates some bad results along the way ....well then you have overstepped the mark.

I agree with you that some bad results come from evangelism but if you think you can just make all these derogatory assumptions about Christianity and think that I am going to lie down and just take it when I proof otherwise then you have nothing thing coming.

I am happy to take you on any day of the week when it comes to proving Christianity false or true....and areas like presenting scientific or archaeological evidence does not involve a swearing contest so I don't know why you wish to talk a big game then raise the white flag excusing yourself by means of T&C issues.

My remarks about who needs an education was merely to draw you to your own remarks about the negative assumptions you put on Christianity...if we were to ban ignorance (which is basically what you are calling for in banning Christian evangelism) then by that measure we would have to ban your opinion on ATS because on the issue regarding the worth and truth of Christianity, it is very ignorant

I want you to be annoyed, to be challenge, I want you to pick through my information to find out that is false....because you won't find out what is false, all you will do is expose yourself to the information and in reading it carefully you will see that it is truth. (I got so much evidence confirming Genesis and many controversial parts of the OT it would make your head spin....for now lets see if you can handle Sodom and Gomorrah evidence)

reply to post by Siberbat

Isn't the premise of this thread promoting the exact same intoloerance and fearmongering against christianity as it alledges that religion is doing to homosexuality and woman's rights? It seems so, as the OP is supporting the "Stompping out" or "wipping out" of a religious group? Or, the idea of having people reeducated?

Very well put...the OP might not herself need a re-education...but she definitely needs to be a bit more open to taking in a bit more education....never stop learning.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by heyitsok

 

What is that supposed to mean?
I'm not an atheist, pal. I'm also not congratulating myself. I'm pointing out what fundamentalists are capable of - ruining lives, spreading lies and hatred, and corrupting other countries with their sick beliefs.

Did my post contain a quote of yours? No. Did it contain a "Reply to this post" link back to one of your posts? No. I wasn't addressing you specifically. Believe me, when I am calling people out specifically, they *know it.* Stop taking everything so personally. Hey, It's OK.

As someone who has had a good deal of their life ruined by fundamentalism, and lost relationships with a significant number of family members, friend, you are preaching to the choir.

BTW, I look a *lot* like the girl in the background of your avatar. Kinda creeps me out.

Originally posted by Siberbat
Isn't the premise of this thread promoting the exact same intoloerance and fearmongering against christianity as it alledges that religion is doing to homosexuality and woman's rights? It seems so, as the OP is supporting the "Stompping out" or "wipping out" of a religious group? Or, the idea of having people reeducated? If anything those two solutions should expose the spirit of what is really wanted done, and that should terrify any reasonible person.

Have we not seen this ideology in history before folks?

The OP is supporting an extreamist hateful position against not just a religion, but how one thinks and feels about one should live their life. Hypocrisy. This thread is not bringing people together in love, but seperating them with hate, and no doubt supporting the systematic removal of people of faith. This should shake you to the core, even if your not religious. Because, when the people of faith are delt with, who will be next? You...me..your neighbor?

I read the article which was linked. It is a piece of propaganda which (if terms were changed) any tyrant would be proud of to dehumanise a group and justify genocide. The "spirit" of that writing is clear for anyone to see. It is extreamly biased and is a gross misrepresentation of several groups of people.
1. People of faith - I have NEVER encountered ANY people of faith who are portrayed as such in the fiction the OP provided. People of faith are instructed to love and not spread fear and prejudice. In the christian tradition, people are to care and minister to people...all people...to love the sinner and not the sin.
2. Homosexuals - These are harrd working, caring, loving poeple. Many homosexuals are more connected to how they feel than any other group out there. Many just want to "be who they are" and live life just as any other person. Many are not defined by who they sleep with and are not wanting to "change the world", but just live life and be happy.
3. Non-westerners - Are westerners so arrogant that they think they know what is best for the rest of the world. They feel they have to save the world because they are smarter or have more common sense to take care of other peoples. The fact is the west feels it can tell everyone what to do because they have more resources than everyone else...that is wrong. People outside of N. America and Europe have the same ability (if not more) to reason and navigate the storms of life without the west telling them what to do, how to feel, and what's right for their culture.

So I'll call this tread what it is...a hateful troll thread, as it managed to degrade the groups I mentioned above. Perhapes it would have been better if it had logical real world solutions. As for me, I suppose I will get flamed, so no use in responding as I can't change opinion. I just felt I should say something. /rant.

Very good post. *applause and star*

reply to post by bloodreviara


Thank you for sharing first-hand experience here. It's very important that people do know what is actually going on.

Many responders here have become upset -
which reinforces my feeling that the article is digging pretty deeply into their psyches.

I'm being accused of "spewing venom", people calling me "honey", even a "closet homosexual", an ignoramus, seething with hatred, more! I can only imagine what torture they'd do to me if the lot of us were all in some god-forsaken shack village with filthy water, starving cattle, skeletal children and rampant AIDS.

But they're not investigating it. They sit behind their computers or staring at their iPhones, thumbs a-flashing expertly - and come up with these 'names' to call me, rather than asking their pastors or whoever if the article is telling the truth. Interesting. I didn't author it. I posted it here for discussion. You and others have spoken with "boots on the ground" experience of this very phenomenon, and I thank you for doing so.

reply to post by Siberbat

1. People of faith - I have NEVER encountered ANY people of faith who are portrayed as such in the fiction the OP provided. People of faith are instructed to love and not spread fear and prejudice. In the christian tradition, people are to care and minister to people...all people...to love the sinner and not the sin.

And where do you live? There are members who have backed up the article's premise with first-hand knowledge of how these charlatans are behaving. Obviously they have met people of faith who behave like this. Know who the Westboro Baptist Church is? Those are the types of people to which the article is referring.

2. Homosexuals - These are harrd working, caring, loving poeple. Many homosexuals are more connected to how they feel than any other group out there. Many just want to "be who they are" and live life just as any other person. Many are not defined by who they sleep with and are not wanting to "change the world", but just live life and be happy.

How does the article, or ANYTHING I've said, mistreat or denounce homosexuals? The point is that they are being terrorized and persecuted. So, this point has nothing to do with me or the article. I have very dear friends who are homosexual and bisexual, and I couldn't care less what they do in their private homes. I am heterosexual and they are fine with that, too.

3. Non-westerners - Are westerners so arrogant that they think they know what is best for the rest of the world. They feel they have to save the world because they are smarter or have more common sense to take care of other peoples. The fact is the west feels it can tell everyone what to do because they have more resources than everyone else...that is wrong. People outside of N. America and Europe have the same ability (if not more) to reason and navigate the storms of life without the west telling them what to do, how to feel, and what's right for their culture.

This is exactly true, and it's the WHOLE POINT! Thank you for reiterating it.

The rest, calling this a hate troll post, is ridiculous and not worth mentioning.
Stamping out extremist thinking that harms other people in the name of 'religion' is the problem. I'm plenty educated, contrary to what some members like to imply or assume - and I study these matters every day. I am fully aware that MOST Christian people are kind and good and loving. Westboro Baptist Church is NOT, and it is their ilk that needs to be stopped. And beyond that, a congregation member sitting in a huge mega-church with rock music and laser shows does not necessarily have the inside knowledge on what their "leadership" is peddling abroad.

Obviously they are angry and upset, but...are they looking to see if there's a reason someone wrote that article?
It is addressing the far-right extremist behavior, not the majority of Christians.
I would think that any genuine, kind, loving Christian would be as incensed by the information - if not furious - that there are Christians out there behaving this way and making them look bad.

No?

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

Morning, JG.

I know you like to try to annoy me and think that you know ever so much about things. I think your heart is in the right place, yet you are somehow obsessed with twisting "evidence" to support insupportable claims so that they make sense to you. You are a bright person, and a young person - with miles to go before you rest. Use it wisely.

Evolution is a thing. Homosexuals are not vaporized or struck into pillars of salt for looking over their shoulders. The earth is billions of years old, and the universe far older. There are so many FASCINATING real things to study - the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know, which is the humility of being actually in awe of Creation.

So, yeah, I'll leave Sodom and Gomorrah to you and yours, while I try to wrap my head around quantum physics, quantum mechanics, black holes, H-bar phenomena and the like, while focusing on the human condition, the workings of the human brain and body, and how it all relates to us being here, now, miraculously it seems -
which leads me back to believing that all we are and see around us are part of a UNIT of such immense, mind-boggling complexity that it may never be adequately "explained" - the Ultimate Reality - while every bit of it is connected and whole, perfect and bizarre.

reply to post by nenothtu


Very astutely put, thanks, nenothtu.
The way you have of turning a phrase makes things more clear, and you are appreciated.

reply to post by gadfire


absolutely incorrect. Reread the OP, and try again. It's singling out those whom it described - and no one else - it's not a blanket Christian-bashing extravaganza.