Americans Are Losing Their Religion -- But the Fundamentalists Have a Plan

reply to post by SearchLightsInc

Perhaps as more and more people gain access to higher education in these developing countries, they will once again loose their grip on peoples minds. We can only hope.

Yes, we can hope...
and we can protest it. It's sickening.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by abeverage

 

Sorry if you felt it was slash-and-burn thinking. I opened the post with the article's headline and intro - and yes, it was harsh.

Most of "my" points were describing the article's details without posting the whole thing.
But I did ask this:

Do the fundie congregation members know that their "tithes" are being used in this way - and do they approve??!!

No I am betting a majority of all Church members do not know where their tithe is going or being used for exactly! I think a lot of them pay it out of guilt and a reason to say they have done something. There are however churches that do care and care a lot and a hell of a lot better than the gangs preying upon those people.

That was hit piece (and rightly so) against the MM but it tends to throw a blanket much you did on all "Christians" much like hit pieces do to Muslims about terrorism. So please see it as such. The Extreme right will falter by this move as we can all hope, but true messages of peace and love will remain I hope.

Let's not get side-tracked on Celebs, they make good money and do as they want, they share because they have to practice what they preach. She does not live like a pauper by any stretch of the imagination and most the people she helps live in a house or shack smaller then the interior of her broom closet...She is better than most (agreed!) but still part of the machine that cares nothing about human life and I hope you see that...

reply to post by wildtimes


Has anyone ever told you that you're cute when you're angry?

It's wildtimes vs the world!



Seriously though everything will be ok.

reply to post by wildtimes


Awesome thread. I was listening to an interview on the radio with an author who wrote an entire book on his experiences hanging out with these missionaries from America in Africa. He said that the general consensus among church leadership is that they've finally lost their war in America but that Africa is a missionary's paradise. They are vulnerable, need food and water, and will say or live however they are told in order to attain it.

I hold Christians in high regard in most cases but this is not one of them. This is straight up playing house. They don't want to clean their own room so they go to pretend land in their doll house to create their own utopia since the dolls can't say "no". The violence against cultural minorities in Africa (gays, non-Christians, etc) has been a problem for a long time but it's getting even worse with this new resurgence of dominionism.

Don't they realize that Africa is the way it is because the western world already did this to them during the industrial revolution?! They will be Christianized again just well enough so they start bowing down to western interests and selling off important lands only to be abandoned later with nothing to show for it.

Again, I don't see this as a Christian crime so much as a western crime. I very much doubt that many Christians would approve of what their churches are doing in Africa if they actually saw it first hand.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

Its sick to prey on ignorant people just because they desperately need money!!

Yes, it is.
But to impose sick, backward, destructive beliefs on unsuspecting people who didn't ask for it is arguably even WORSE!

edit on 20-3-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

How can you impose beliefs on people short of actually using force on them? Are the people in other nations so unintelligent that they just believe whatever anyone tells them? Methinks not.

It sounds to me that the evangelicals, whether you agree with them or not, are using persuasion to convince people to agree with them. And if they succeed, don't the new converts deserve the consequences, good or bad? Religion (or lack thereof, for that matter) isn't like kidnapping and enslavement; people choose to become religious (or to become atheist.) And people ought to live with the consequences of their choices. If they were going over there with AK-47s and forcing people to be baptized...well, that's an entirely different story.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by abeverage

 

No. I don't want to KILL anyone - I want to shut them up, educate them, and make it criminal, like any other form of hate crime. Stamping out a dangerous way of thinking and imposition of it on others is not the same as killing people. They are the ones killing people.

Wait, wait, wait...you want to prevent people from using logic, reason and persuasion to spread their own beliefs?
Does that not seem...dangerous? To say nothing of intolerant? Whatever happened to using logic and reason for persuasion?
And what will you do if these people refuse to "shut up?" Remember, their entire religious heritage is a story of people who refused to "shut up" and as a result were killed for it. Many of the saints (that's more of a Catholic thing, I suppose) were martyrs. (Some) Christians literally venerate people who would rather die than "shut up."

reply to post by StalkerSolent

If they were going over there with AK-47s and forcing people to be baptized...well, that's an entirely different story.

Yeah, instead they're going over there and burning condoms, colluding with governments to ban contraception (resulting in a new wave of AIDS, thank you very much),persecuting gay people, and threatening their new victims with images of "eternal torture in hell". It's psychological abuse, it's backward, and yes, those people are poorly educated and needy - so they will easily fall prey to that sort of brainwashing.

Are you unaware of the cultures in Africa where children are being tortured for "witchcraft" and "demonic possession"? Their own parents are pouring acid down their throats, setting them on fire, etc. at the direction of a nutjob Evangelical christian "minister" who was "educated" by western Evangelical fundies.

It's no better than the children in Palestine being indoctrinated into killer soldiers - have you seen those videos? Are you aware of how religious extremists poison the minds of children? And the adults who are supposed to be nurturing those children?

It's psy-ops. If I had a choice of being gunned down by an AK-47, or burning for eternity in hell, and I didn't know any better, well, I'd choose being shot. The guise of charity and "salvation" has been used for thousands of years to control and manipulate, scare and shun people.

Like I said, if a person who is educated to other alternatives CHOOSES to be an Evangelical fundamentalist, that's one thing. That's on them. But people with no knowledge of other options - who are shown a scam and buy it because of fear of hell - are easily misled.

reply to post by StalkerSolent

Wait, wait, wait...you want to prevent people from using logic, reason and persuasion to spread their own beliefs?

I can't tell if you're being facetious here or not.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by StalkerSolent

 

If they were going over there with AK-47s and forcing people to be baptized...well, that's an entirely different story.

Are you unaware of the cultures in Africa where children are being tortured for "witchcraft" and "demonic possession"? Their own parents are pouring acid down their throats, setting them on fire, etc. at the direction of a nutjob Evangelical christian "minister" who was "educated" by western Evangelical fundies.

Link please? I'd be really interested to see who's doing this. I've spent a lot of time around fundamentalist Christians in the US of A (I'm a Christian myself) and I've never heard any of them advocating any of those remedies to "demonic possession."

Like I said, if a person who is educated to other alternatives CHOOSES to be an Evangelical fundamentalist, that's one thing. That's on them. But people with no knowledge of other options - who are shown a scam and buy it because of fear of hell - are easily misled.

"Educated to other alternatives?" These people have their own religious beliefs and customs, which some of them choose to leave. So I'd say they've been educated to other alternatives, unless we want them to be educated to ALL other alternatives, and I'm honestly not sure that is possible.

reply to post by Cuervo


Interesting! Do you have a link to a podcast that we can listen to?
I'm glad you chimed in here.

reply to post by StalkerSolent


Yup, here ya go:
my 'pleasure' to enlighten you as to what's going on:
African Children Denounced As "Witches" By Christian Pastors
three years ago, this was published in the huffington post.
Read and be revolted.

reply to post by wildtimes


No, I'm dead serious. Even if we believe someone's a crackpot, the correct response is to let people decide for themselves, not silence them. Truth has nothing to fear from the light of day, but those who are insecure in the validity of their own beliefs have everything to profit from silencing dissent.

reply to post by wildtimes


Thanks!

reply to post by StalkerSolent

"Educated to other alternatives?" These people have their own religious beliefs and customs, which some of them choose to leave. So I'd say they've been educated to other alternatives, unless we want them to be educated to ALL other alternatives, and I'm honestly not sure that is possible.

Of course it's possible! It's just as possible as teaching them to read and write, do math, and practice hygiene. As teaching multiple languages (like MANY other countries teach both their national language AND ENGLISH - yet how many Americans are able to speak another language? I am, by the way. I was taught, and then practiced and learned by conversing in that language).

Yes, they have their own religions and cultures, which should be allowed to grow organically. If there are missionaries that want to go out and educate these people as to the plethora of different faiths world-wide, they can do so.

There are tribes living "primitively" in the Amazon rain forest who want NOTHING TO DO with "modern society", and the governments there are FINALLY allowing them their space. Finally recognizing that they don't WANT "help" - they want to be left alone and to continue their cultural beliefs of the forest itself being sacred and alive, and the interdependence of everything on everything else there. "Primitive"? No, I'd say they are more advanced than "modern society" in that regard.

I posted a link to that in a thread not too long ago (check out smithsonian magazine's website for the article and photos)

reply to post by StalkerSolent


You're very welcome. Feel empowered to share it with your friends in the USA, and see if they know about it.

Did you read the OP article?
It states its case very well, and is worth 5 minutes or less of your time to read.

One of my questions in the OP was whether or not American fundamentalists even know this is going on.

reply to post by StalkerSolent

No, I'm dead serious. Even if we believe someone's a crackpot, the correct response is to let people decide for themselves, not silence them.

You're missing my point. The crackpots are spreading their nuttiness to unsuspecting, vulnerable people who don't realize their new "saviors" are crackpots!

Originally posted by wildtimes

Yes, they have their own religions and cultures, which should be allowed to grow organically. If there are missionaries that want to go out and educate these people as to the plethora of different faiths world-wide, they can do so.

I still doubt that an entirely inclusive religious crash course is practical in a timely manner. Shoot, Protestants in American can barely keep track of their own denominations, and that's just a fraction of a fraction of the world's total religious population. Additionally, I'm really not sure why missionaries would want to educate people in any faith but their own–that is kinda the point. But if some of them want to do that, it's fine by me.

reply to post by StalkerSolent

Wait, wait, wait...you want to prevent people from using logic, reason and persuasion to spread their own beliefs?

Sorry for the multiple replies to your same post, but...
what do logic and reason have to do with fundamentalists? Their beliefs are both illogical and without "reason" being employed at all.
Please remember that the article is talking about the FEW Protestant extremists that are going abroad and spreading their hell-fire and eternal torture fantasy to "persuade" people and take advantage of them!

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by StalkerSolent

 

No, I'm dead serious. Even if we believe someone's a crackpot, the correct response is to let people decide for themselves, not silence them.

You're missing my point. The crackpots are spreading their nuttiness to unsuspecting, vulnerable people who don't realize their new "saviors" are crackpots!

I get your point. But I really don't see who we are to decide who are crackpots and who isn't. I think Scientology is absolute bunk, but you don't see me rushing to save Tom Cruise from their clutches.

Now, if people are using force, that is something entirely out of the realm of persuasion, reason, and logic.

reply to post by StalkerSolent

But I really don't see who we are to decide who are crackpots and who isn't. I think Scientology is absolute bunk, but you don't see me rushing to save Tom Cruise from their clutches.

Tom Cruise is an adult who chose that path.
His wife divorced him for trying to indoctrinate their daughter into his whacko religion - and many people have left that cult and spoken about how they were brainwashed.

Are you aware of "Jesus Camp"? Another atrocity, perpetuated on little kids right here in the USA by these nutters.

There is a full length movie about THESE crackpots, but here is a short glimpse of it. Deny ignorance.