Americans Are Losing Their Religion -- But the Fundamentalists Have a Plan

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic

My Christianity affirms that the Bible is the inspired word of God and that the events portrayed as happening literally did happen as described. So I would need a scientific and logic basis to understand the world and explain it in light of the Genesis or Exodus account for instance.

Seeking external - and unrelated - "proof" is the same as saying that the word of your god is not sufficient for you to go on. I would caution you not to mock God by saying that his word is good enough - as long as it's backed up by someone else's word. He might think that's pretty funny - or he might not be amused at all. That will be between you and he.

Science that provides evidence that only supports the Biblical account of described reality to the exclusion of any other belief or religion is the kind of science and evidence I advocate. I have found that any true understanding of a scientific fact ends up having to conform to the Biblical account in one form or another on closer inspection. The lack of anti-matter is just one proof of such evidence. The lack of anti-matter destroys the argument of naturalistic Big Bang theory and thus a naturalistic evolution mechanism to explain reality of how we got here. This line of evidence also destroys every pantheistic based religion on the planet as false.

The scientist in me rejects the Big Bang theory out of hand, as it has not yet been demonstrated, ever, that something can be made from nothing. No elaborate and convoluted arguments involving "antimatter" are required.

Why do you have a need to "destroy every pantheistic based religion"? Is your god so weak that he cannot leave the dead to dig graves for their fellows, and instead demands worship from the unwilling? I suppose you could make a good case for that - the worship from his "willing followers" does seem to be a bit weak. Maybe he's looking for replacement players.

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic

My Christianity affirms that the Bible is the inspired word of God and that the events portrayed as happening literally did happen as described.

Then your Christianity is far too small. You are caught in the exoteric trap.

“...You can’t think yourself out of the story you are caught in with the rules and elements of the very story in which you are caught. You can’t free yourself with the tools that the master provides you. You need a new story and new cognitive tools.” -Jeffrey Kripal

Yes the Bible is inspired by Divinity. But what you fail to realize is that the Divine contains every pair of opposites and every archetype of the collective unconscious... including the archetype of the trickster. All have their place in the Pleroma. All find expression. As a result there are two parallel currents of theology in the Bible. Yet you only see one. You are blind to the esoteric current that encompasses and transcends the Bible and culture itself.

Therefore you can't transcend the Bible.

You fail to realize that every sacred text from every religion is inspired by the same God. You don't have the tools to realize that because you haven't studied comparative mysticism, comparative mythology, comparative religion enough to tri-angulate your exegesis through these overlapping fields of study. As a result your exegesis is stale and myopic and all too predictable.

You can't see past the tip of your own cultural references. You can't see that God transcends your concepts. Therefore you unknowingly make an idol out of your concepts and that prevents you from seeing God in all religions.

Therefore you can't see God at all. You are wretched, miserable, blind, and naked.

"If you can't see God in all, you can't see God at all." - Siri Singh Sahib

Originally posted by BlueMule

You can't see past the tip of your own cultural references. You can't see that God transcends your concepts. Therefore you unknowingly make an idol out of your concepts and that prevents you from seeing God in all religions.

Therefore you can't see God at all. You are wretched, miserable, blind, and naked.

"If you can't see God in all, you can't see God at all." - Siri Singh Sahib

This.

If you have to recite a "Confession of Faith", you are missing the entire point of even having a faith to begin with. That very "Confession" limits the potentials in your relationship to your God. The rules of religion are very few, very simple, and very concrete. By dragging in all the other baggage, you over-complicate religion to the point where you cannot even see your God because you have hidden him away behind Some Other Guy's Rules of Faith. The you have to make a choice of which Other Guy's Rules of Faith you want to follow, and spend endless hours defending those rules and ignoring your God to do so. You get trapped and bogged down in the theological forest, and can't make it into the bright sunny meadow beyond.

reply to post by nenothtu

You get trapped and bogged down in the theological forest, and can't make it into the bright sunny meadow beyond.

Which is where the people who have developed organic religions based on Creation itself already are...
we all have a forest to make it through - each on our own path. We can't hold someone's hand as they go through it. We can't drag them along on our path, either. The best we can do is call out and hail each other from various paths, or the meadow, but each soul has to make it through by themselves.

Sadly, not all even attempt it, let alone succeed.

This is a test for our core (sincerity - truth - heart).

Will people accept fear based teachings and go out and call destruction like that which happened in OUR dark ages?

Or will these societies be able to go BEYOND that from fear into compassion, understand, and love and not have to go through such a stage?


(This is my humble opinion anyway)..

reply to post by arpgme


I certainly hope compassion wins out. The fear-based thing has got to go.
Thanks for your comment/questions.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by wildtimes

No matter what "science" you think affirms it, your version is skewed, bud. Really, really warped.

I am mystified by people who attempt to use science to support or refute religion. Science is not antithetical to religion as they appear to assume, it is an entirely different field of endeavor. It's like trying to use bowling balls to support or refute the existence of uranium mines. The two are not only not linked or related, they are entirely different things, with no bearing on one another. They have entirely different aims, goals, methodologies, and purposes.

edit on 2013/3/22 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

What is is. The science taught now is a view of what is just like different religions try to explain what is. Try to get as much understanding of what is but know that what you believe is will not be the truth since it will be a simplification. The only way to know the truth is to know all things that are including every humans view of what is both conscious and unconscious. Instead of caring about what human view is more right I am trying to figure out the highest understanding of what is my mind can understand and I am not very impressed by the level of data my mind can keep track off. From my point the mind seem to be like a toy compared to what it should be or what I want it to be. So limited.

I have experiance paranormal thing (normal things that people unfortunatly have not experianced yet) and those things point towards something more behind the reality we are in. I do play around with synchronicity sometimes and can with that sometimes find out things that I need to know. If a specific religion is the whole truth in it's current form then why are paranormal entities showing me otherwise. Should I believe something by it's fruits of love or a human called Paul who say he knew the truth and anybody who say against him is not truthful?

Since when I read Paul writings I get the picture in my head of a egoistic manipulative person who care more about power than saving souls the choice becomes very easy for me. God could not care less what Paul writes and does what god wants not what it is told todo by Paul. God is still teaching and will teach until humanity will get it right. I trust god with my soul not Paul.

reply to post by LittleByLittle

. . . when I read Paul writings I get the picture in my head of a egoistic manipulative person who care more about power than saving souls . . .

What you need to do is read the authentic Paul, and not the 'Paul' of the book which is essentially historical fiction, called The Acts of the Apostles in the New Testament.
And you need to restrict your reading to the seven books, Romans, First and Second Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, Philemon, and First Thessalonians.
Once you cut out all the nonsense of fiction and forgery, you can get a more realistic view of the man.
Of course someone writing a forgery, purporting to be by Paul, would be grasping for power and that will bleed through, but it isn't Paul, it's someone else.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

. . . when I read Paul writings I get the picture in my head of a egoistic manipulative person who care more about power than saving souls . . .

What you need to do is read the authentic Paul, and not the 'Paul' of the book which is essentially historical fiction, called The Acts of the Apostles in the New Testament.
And you need to restrict your reading to the seven books, Romans, First and Second Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, Philemon, and First Thessalonians.
Once you cut out all the nonsense of fiction and forgery, you can get a more realistic view of the man.
Of course someone writing a forgery, purporting to be by Paul, would be grasping for power and that will bleed through, but it isn't Paul, it's someone else.

edit on 22-3-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

You might be right. But having to always question who wrote what in that book makes the book a pain in the backside to get clear answers from. If I want a puzzle book to train my mind then I read the bible. If I want to understand higher ideals then there is better more efficient sources. God have made sure they exists when I need them.

reply to post by LittleByLittle

But having to always question who wrote what in that book makes the book a pain in the backside to get clear answers from.

All the hard work has already been done and I just gave you the results of those decades of research and what the biblical scholars have settled on.

Westboro Baptist Church Gets a Taste of Its Own Medicine

Here's an example of people actually doing something to stand up and do something about the sort of people we have addressed in this thread.

From now on, the group known for picketing the funerals of everyone from military members killed in action to Mr. Rogers, in protest of America’s tolerance of homosexuality, will wake up every morning and stare at an LGBT rainbow—after Equality House members painted the building to match the gay pride flag.

Planting Peace director of operations Davis Hammet spoke to TakePart from inside Equality House. He tells us the idea for the project originated months ago, after Planting Peace members heard about the protest of Josef Miles—a 10-year-old who took it upon himself to hold a sign in front of Westboro that read “God Hates No One.”

I hadn't heard about the 10-year old who did this, but good for him, and good for this group for peacefully protesting in a way that Westboro can't hide from it.

reply to post by wildtimes

reply to post by wildtimes


Isn't that vandalism?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Whut?
They bought the house across from the WBC and painted it rainbow-striped.
No, it's not vandalism. And apparently it's not in an area with a Homeowners Association rulebook either!

reply to post by wildtimes


Your posts didn't say which building and I was too lazy to Google. Sue me.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Erm...Okay. I'll need pro bono counsel, though. How much you worth?
Sorry if I sounded snarky. Didn't mean to, was just laughing at how a Homeowners Association would faint if someone did this in some neighborhoods.
Did you ever look at the article link? A great pic on there, and it's on many other sites as well (with other pictures).