It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, into a better ride. Take all that money we spend on weapons and defense each year and, instead, spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would do many times over -- not one human being excluded -- and we can explore space together, both inner and outer, forever. In peace.
Originally posted by YouSir
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
Ummm...........To be fair...you probably think that i've singled you out...But, to be honest...that wouldn't be the case...I just wanted to further the conversation...However...now that you're all butthurt about it and just want to sling crap...then sallie forth, by all means....Have a nice day
YouSir
Originally posted by YouSir
reply to post by usernamealreadytaken
Ummm...it's also pretty easy cast aspersions....Perhaps for you, you had the ability or foresight or experiance to read between those lines back in 2001...For others that realization came later and even after the fact and even after the experiance...I think that the Soldier, the subject of the OP fit the latter category but ultimately he did wake up and see the truth of his own complicity. I think his anger is misplaced, however, I think there are many more than one set of shoulders that culpability rests upon. I also think it's right to point this out and bring exposure to whatever exists behind the curtain....Cause we're certainly not in Kansas anymore..
YouSir
Originally posted by CthulhuRising
I post this is Political Madness because it is Madness that these people have been allowed to get away with doing this to the American People and the world.
From an open letter to George bush and dick Cheney by Tomas Young and Iraqi war Veteran.
My day of reckoning is upon me. Yours will come. I hope you will be put on trial. But mostly I hope, for your sakes, that you find the moral courage to face what you have done to me and to many, many others who deserved to live. I hope that before your time on earth ends, as mine is now ending, you will find the strength of character to stand before the American public and the world, and in particular the Iraqi people, and beg for forgiveness
Full letter here
CTH
In 1917 the administration of Woodrow Wilson decided to rely primarily on conscription, rather than voluntary enlistment, to raise military manpower for World War I when only 73,000 volunteers enlisted out of the initial 1 million target in the first six weeks of the war.[10] One claimed motivation was to head off ex-president Theodore Roosevelt, who proposed to raise a volunteer division, which would upstage Wilson, however there is no evidence that even Roosevelt had the popularity to overcome the unpopular war.
Originally posted by bbracken677
reply to post by Kokatsi
911 wouldnt have happened with a dem president? Are you truly that ignorant?
I seem to remember an attempt to blow up one of the towers during the 90s...I seem to remember a president named Clinton...I seem to remember that he was a democrat. I also seem to remember that Osama was ultimately involved in that attempt as well.
I also seem to remember that Clinton had a chance to take him out and passed on it. I also seem to remember a few embassies being bombed by the organization headed by Osama...during the Clinton admin.
They were against the US, the capitalistic nature of our country....not Bush and they probably didnt really have a clue as to what a Cheney was...
So...take your re-write of history and place it somewhere dark.
Sometimes it is best to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are clueless.
Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by nwtrucker
I can really understand having supported the wars when they started. Bush and his people were outstanding in getting public and overall world support. A couple exceptions...(France comes to mind for the most visible public example at the time) but for the most part, he was actually pretty successful on the coalition building side of things.
* * *
How ANYONE can support Iraq in hindsight is completely beyond my understanding. To have assumed there was more than we could know in 2003 is reasonable to me. To see more than existed TODAY seems willful to ignoring what is now known for what those in power at the time were doing and what WAS known vs. what we all assumed.
Now what gets me is that this thread is about Bush... Not Obama. It's about who started the wars. It's not about who's continuing one and starting new ones. A whole different thread could be made to cover that and literally dozens upon dozens have been.
So.. ONE thread where the focus is BUSH..AND ONLY BUSH isn't that much to ask occasionally. After all, history will record the the Commander and Chief was the one who initiated action against both Afghanistan and Iraq. Congress didn't. The President did. Congress reluctantly agreed after their usual political calculations and cold planning for advantage.
* * *
What shocks me and has me actually relating to those on the left is the fact that ON A 100% BUSH FOCUSED THREAD.....Obama STILL needs to come up in some relation to HISTORIC EVENTS he hadn't even been mentioned as name to think about in national leadership for. He was a rookie Senator with no name and no experience during all that. SO...He has nothing, in any way to do with the thread
It's the fact he gets brought into it that I think was educational to see. It's NO DIFFERENT than how Obama can't be criticized on the other myriad of threads that ARE entirely about HIM without Bush always being brought in to justify, mitigate or excuse in some way.
Well... This has been doing the precise opposite and it's just as cheap, cheesy and partisan from this side. I just hadn't seen it directed toward me before. Now that I have...I appreciate the positions and issues of the left members a bit more than I ever did for how they are aggressively argued on the slightest thing for some topics.
edit on 21-3-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Kokatsi
Well, it DIDN'T happen finally, did it? There were some attempts.
Originally posted by Kokatsi
Or did they?
Lots of questions. I think a dem president would have ordered a far more thorough investigation - if not prevented it (they all prevented such egregious terrorist acts and violations of air space actually).
Let's test this out around May 12th. Something like 911 could happen in Israel or America again, This time, the "culprits" will have clear ties to Russia. Or even China.
Originally posted by jjkenobi
He should add Obama to the address list.
Yes, thank you for correcting me. I said "Because you did not do it for the Freedom of the American people" but what I meant and should have said was "your service was not being used for the Freedom of the American people". Intentionally, IMO. The purpose to send you over there had NEVER been to serve American people (maybe American mega-corporations, or Iraqi people as you had suggested).
Originally posted by zeeon
As far as accusing me of joining for my own reasons and not those of serving my country - you sir are wrong.
I see your point of view, and acknowledge it. It's an unfortunate reality that no, my service has not improved the lives of Americans. I can admit that. I however, do not take responsibility for it, nor can I.
Have you tried writing letters to politicians who are only concerned with being reelected? How do you hold them to the constitution?
Originally posted by bbracken677
With the govt...we do have a choice, however.
We should send a message to congress by voting out EVERY incumbent.
Too many of our elected politicians are only concerned with fattening their own wallets and being reelected.
Our federal govt should be held to the constitution as to what their duties and responsibilities are...no more, no less.