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God is love, so Jesus understood this from the begging because he himself is love. He was made perfect, but he still had to learn. His task was to learn through us rather than through sin himself. So he watched how our sin destroyed us and separated us from Love/God. He was then sent in his perfection to teach us how we could become like him.
In the OT God admits that he is the good and the bad guy. That we have been doing exactly what his will is for us to do. What this means to him is beyond me. What it means to me is he loves us. All of us, and he has been subjecting to sin because he loves us.
nowhere does it say we become perfect.
I did not mean to label you, I was merely trying to see if that was really what you believed. I respect you and truly like you; but, this is where we disagree.
I do not believe we ever become perfect nor do I wish to be, one God is enough for me.
Jesus accepted us for being imperfect, it is tough gift to accept; but, it leads to acceptance of others, forgiveness of others and salvation in an eternity with God. I do not wish to compete with God, Satan tried that and was only really looking out for himself.
We have four true choices. I am God, there is no God, I become God or I am not God. The "I become God" answer is really sort of risky. It means that there is no God today or that God can be surpassed by his creation.
A very long time ago, I started a thread. I asked people if they could pick their eternity, what answer would they have to what God was, what God would they choose. What if that really was what this life was about? What if the purpose of life was to make that decision? I have read posts where people said that if God spoke to them, they would punch him in the mouth. What if you truly get to choose your eternity as the bible says? Which would people choose and why?
You always ask great questions and provide great quotes. It is always a pleasure to examine these types of questions with you. Peace.
God sent spiritual light into the world. Jesus was not the light, but was full of that spirit, which was the knowledge of God, and it was in the Apostles, including and especially the writer of the Gospel of John.
. . . god created "light" . . . (and sent) this light to the world in the man . . . Jesus . . .
The Bible doesn't say so.
Jesus was there when Adam was formed.
Metaphorically, it is saying that God is spiritually positive.
The bible says God is love, and God is light. So we can assume that Jesus also being referred to as light is love.
"Perfection" (as used by Jesus) is a philosophical term which meant achieving an awareness of others as if you were looking at them from a detached (unselfish) perspective.
Imagine love as a spiritual state of mind. The evolution of our own mind towards perfection, the perfection of love.
More likely the other way around. We can stop committing overt sins, for example a career criminal who converted would stop robbing people, but we can't undo the affects of thousands of years of sin in the world, things that effect everyone on a personal level. We can achieve a certain type of 'perfection' by having the indwelling of God's spirit.
Maybe we cannot be made perfect but we can overcome what we call sin.
Jesus did not somehow become sinless by pursuit of love. Jesus was sinless to start with, and remained in that condition by not being selfish.
The flesh always has desires that need to be dealt with but when you drop the desires of the flesh for the pursuit of love, you find love. This love is Jesus the one who only pursued love thus was without sin.
This is all speculation on your part, making some biblically and logically unsound conclusions from fragmentary bits of information cherry picked from the Bible, then launching off from that as if you had a firm theoretical foundation to base it all on.
God is love, so Jesus understood this from the begging because he himself is love. He was made perfect, but he still had to learn. His task was to learn through us rather than through sin himself. So he watched how our sin destroyed us and separated us from Love/God. He was then sent in his perfection to teach us how we could become like him.
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by AQuestion
I did not mean to label you, I was merely trying to see if that was really what you believed. I respect you and truly like you; but, this is where we disagree.
No worries... we are allowed to disagree...
It is our disagreements that help us understand one another...
I do not believe we ever become perfect nor do I wish to be, one God is enough for me.
Ahh... I see the issue...
Perfection as a man... Not perfection equal with God...
Jesus accepted us for being imperfect, it is tough gift to accept; but, it leads to acceptance of others, forgiveness of others and salvation in an eternity with God. I do not wish to compete with God, Satan tried that and was only really looking out for himself.
Satan tried to compete with God?
See I don't buy this, and never have... In my personal opinion, Satan doesn't exist.... but if per chance he actually does... He is likely doing the job God gave him to do... Himself being "the adversary"...
We have four true choices. I am God, there is no God, I become God or I am not God. The "I become God" answer is really sort of risky. It means that there is no God today or that God can be surpassed by his creation.
Now would an angel... one that is described as Gods favorite decide that he (being a creation of God) could surpass his creator?
A very long time ago, I started a thread. I asked people if they could pick their eternity, what answer would they have to what God was, what God would they choose. What if that really was what this life was about? What if the purpose of life was to make that decision? I have read posts where people said that if God spoke to them, they would punch him in the mouth. What if you truly get to choose your eternity as the bible says? Which would people choose and why?
Theres plenty of "what ifs" in life...
So what if Jesus was right, and perfection is attainable if one simply learns what love is?
You always ask great questions and provide great quotes. It is always a pleasure to examine these types of questions with you. Peace.
Always a pleasure brother...
1 John 4:7-12 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because "GOD IS LOVE". 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.
10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
Genesis 1:3-5 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
John 1:7-9 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light. The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.
Colossians 1:13 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the "FIRSTBORN" over all creation.
Read the Genesis account as many times as you like Jesus must be the light
1 Thessalonians 5:5 For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness.
Psalm 119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.
Psalm 119:130 The unfolding of your words gives light; it imparts understanding to the simple.
Psalm 18:28 For it is you who light my lamp; the Lord my God lightens my darkness.
Psalm 104:2 Covering yourself with light as with a garment, stretching out the heavens like a tent.
Psalm 36:9 For with you is the fountain of life; in your light do we see light.
Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light, and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life,
Daniel 2:22 He reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what is in the darkness, and the light dwells with him.
Isaiah 8:20 To the teaching and to the testimony! If they will not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.
Isaiah 9:2 The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shined.
Isaiah 42:16 And I will lead the blind in a way that they do not know, in paths that they have not known I will guide them. I will turn the darkness before them into light, the rough places into level ground. These are the things I do, and I do not forsake them.
Isaiah 45:7 I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.
Isaiah 60:2-3 For behold, darkness shall cover the earth, and thick darkness the peoples; but the Lord will arise upon you, and his glory will be seen upon you. And nations shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising.
Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord has risen upon you.
Isaiah 60:20 Your sun shall no more go down, nor your moon withdraw itself; for the Lord will be your everlasting light, and your days of mourning shall be ended.
Job 24:12-13 From out of the city the dying groan, and the soul of the wounded cries for help; yet God charges no one with wrong. “There are those who rebel against the light, who are not acquainted with its ways, and do not stay in its paths.
Job 38:15 From the wicked their light is withheld, and their uplifted arm is broken.
Job 38:19-24 “Where is the way to the dwelling of light, and where is the place of darkness, that you may take it to its territory and that you may discern the paths to its home? You know, for you were born then, and the number of your days is great! “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow, or have you seen the storehouses of the hail, which I have reserved for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war? ...
Micah 7:8-10 Rejoice not over me, O my enemy; when I fall, I shall rise; when I sit in darkness, the Lord will be a light to me. I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me out to the light; I shall look upon his vindication. Then my enemy will see, and shame will cover her who said to me, “Where is the Lord your God?” My eyes will look upon her; now she will be trampled down like the mire of the streets.
1 Kings 11:36 Yet to his son I will give one tribe, that David my servant may always have a lamp before me in Jerusalem, the city where I have chosen to put my name.
Zechariah 14:6-7 On that day there shall be no light, cold, or frost. And there shall be a unique day, which is known to the Lord, neither day nor night, but at evening time there shall be light.
Exodus 13:21 And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night.
Jeremiah 13:16 Give glory to the Lord your God before he brings darkness, before your feet stumble on the twilight mountains, and while you look for light he turns it into gloom and makes it deep darkness.
Matthew 4:16 The people dwelling in darkness have seen a great light, and for those dwelling in the region and shadow of death, on them a light has dawned.”
Luke 2:32 A light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel.”
Luke 16:8 The master commended the dishonest manager for his shrewdness. For the sons of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own generation than the sons of light.
John 1:4-8 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.
John 3:19-21 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
John 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
John 9:5-7 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” Having said these things, he spat on the ground and made mud with the saliva. Then he anointed the man's eyes with the mud and said to him, “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (which means Sent). So he went and washed and came back seeing.
John 12:35 So Jesus said to them, “The light is among you for a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you. The one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going.
John 12:36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” When Jesus had said these things, he departed and hid himself from them.
1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 Peter 2:5-9 You yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
2 Peter 1:19 And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,
Ephesians 5:14 For anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says, “Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”
2 Corinthians 4:4-6 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 6:14-17 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
Acts 26:13 At midday, O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, that shone around me and those who journeyed with me.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Colossians 1:11-12 May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy, giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light.
Ephesians 5:8 For at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
Revelation 21:23-27 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by AQuestion
Arkagon already answered your first question correctly but you refused to believe him.
So let me see what I can do to convince you.
Isaiah 45:7 I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.
AQ I know you mean well but sometimes we need to humble ourselves. I mean no disrespect but you have been proven wrong on both counts. With scripture that is plain to understand. I only wish to love you, so if I offend you I offer you a sincere apology.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25
This is all speculation on your part, making some biblically and logically unsound conclusions from fragmentary bits of information cherry picked from the Bible, then launching off from that as if you had a firm theoretical foundation to base it all on.
God is love, so Jesus understood this from the begging because he himself is love. He was made perfect, but he still had to learn. His task was to learn through us rather than through sin himself. So he watched how our sin destroyed us and separated us from Love/God. He was then sent in his perfection to teach us how we could become like him.