Yesterday afternoon I had a lovely dinner with a close friend and we went to a garden pub.
It's somebody quite a bit older than me.

She started speaking about what she heard on the radio about over-population, how species are dying daily, and how humans are breeding themselves into extinction, and we'll be extinct before 100 years (the 6th extinction or whatnot).

I replied that I could not necessarily agree (knowing, also from ATS, how many opinions there are about this) and that some countries have a negative growth rate (which means that some form of immigration is inevitable), and that the Elites have supported population control, and propaganda for population control.
Well, I think most people are for some form of population management, but let me rephrase that the genocidal pruning of the "useless eaters" is what can also lurk behind such arguments.

She kept saying the earth is over-populated.
My point was: how do we know when the earth is overpopulated?
How do we know so many species are dying every day, or who crunched those numbers?
Maybe we should just have better management and distribution.

Eventually she got quite loud and somewhat snarling.
Then she spoke about how "we" must feed the world and drop bags of food from planes.
But is this what feeds the world?
Bags from helicopters and planes?
Great propaganda shots and pop songs, but is that really feeding the world?

Next she said that if she was a young person she would never "breed", because the world is simply overpopulated.
Then I told her that as a gay person the most common argument thrown at me is that we cannot "breed", but if I could I'd actually love to.

Then we just sat in silence and ordered the bill.
We spoke subsequently, and all seems so-so OK.

It scared me though, because we've always discussed everything, and suddenly it seemed like I was facing a fascist environmentalist.
My point was just that there are other opinions on this.
And the reaction was something like: "What? You don't believe the earth is over-populated and our only solution is to have less people? HOW DARE YOU?"

Any time someone uses the word 'breed' internal red flags start being thrown. I've rarely, if ever, heard the term used in a positive light and its nearly always said with a, somewhat, elitist attitude. If poverty and hunger were problems that this world truly wanted to solve it'd be done within a decade....but alas...

Well this "conversion" happened over one radio talk program.
That's what scares me even more, although unfortunately I didn't get the name of the speaker, but I think there are a lot going around parroting the same stuff.

I'm not necessarily saying what they said was all wrong, but for goodness sake, one must question a bit.
It's easy to slam politicians or religious preachers, but that's not where the mind-control or propaganda stops or starts.

I felt like I was back in college.
A hippie or environmentalist can do no wrong.
Maybe because I was like that when I was much younger it was unexpected that I should raise other points.

I thought a lot about David Icke's talk at Oxford on Youtube (not that I agree with him on all points).
Mainly about people policing other people.

Did I police back?
Maybe, although I didn't have one cogent counter-argument, I was just skeptical of many presented to me.

I simply do not think humans will be extinct in 100 years.
Perhaps humans will suffer and find other solutions.

The world is certainly overpopulated...in some areas
Namely India and China. They have bred far outside of their resources.

Western nations generally are fine for now. Bit crowded, but that is by choice (most want to crowd in and around cities).

the OP argument is a argument on resource for the local population, and the environmental impact. I think 2 kids per couple in the west is fine..but the highly pop areas need to settle with 1 kid if they want a future that isn't dismal.

Then there is the issue with places, such as india and china, becoming more and more industrial..the impact of billions of people suddenly getting cars, eating meats, etc...this will indeed effect the global climate more and more.

the solution is simple...we need to build a tardis and leave
or..maybe that is simply my solution.

Over consumption of resources is a problem. We consume more than we need to survive.

The paradigm that is trapping us in the present "overpopulation" rhetoric is the practice of considering land to be a possession and a very valuable one at that. This creates a situation where vast tracts of land end up being wasted rather than efficiently utilized.

I like having a yard to look at, as do we all. But the reality is that my pretty lawn, and the lawns and houses of my entire neighborhood, are sitting on land that could be used for food growth.

The reality is that people could change their value systems and the entire worlds population could be housed in a city about the size of Texas - or in a series of small cities that would leave the preponderance of the planet open to sustainable agricultural growth - without having to "cull the herd" or limit procreation at all.

Inb4 "ZOMG U DA AGENDA21!!!!!!"

The extremes tend to get heard on this issue sadly. The psycho hippies who are, essentially, cynical and preach that nature matters more than man - ignoring that man is part of nature and, therefore, anything we do IS, by definition "natural". On the other side the industrial capitalists who try to find profit in every resource that can possibly be exploited for gain.

Neither side makes sense at all. Progress, science, humanity, nature, and sustainability are all pretty compatible if we simply take a common sense approach to things. Living in cities isn't for everyone and people rebel against it. Then again... Manhattan and Paris aren't cheap places to live for good reason. Well designed and modern cities are extremely convenient places to live.

We live such a short span of time on this little rock floating through space. Yet we spend so much of that time purposely being unhappy. Where's the benefit in any of that?
Things suck all the time all over the place. We can make small changes, through our actions, and sometimes big changes. But other things will develop and life will suck again for some.

Do we spend our time wallowing in the muck and mire that we create? Or is it too much to ask, that we take the time to enjoy the peaceful, beautiful aspects of life, of nature, of what we do have and can enjoy.

Just some humble thoughts from a small little bunny.