I Was a Victim: The Steubenville Rape Case is Not Isolated!!

If you answer is NO, that they would not done that to another completely different person, then the victim does hold some sort of responsibility the lead up to the actual event that caused the rapist to target that particular person. Although that action was caused by the rapist.

reply to post by luciddream


We're discussing a friend-rape, correct? A crime which is somewhat tied to opportunity. My rapist was someone I trusted, thought nothing of going into the woods with him as we'd done it numerous times before. For whatever reason, that last time things went differently.

If it had been someone else walking in the woods with him, would he have done it? I don't know, and I don't really care. He chose to assault me. Whether he would chose to assault someone else or not in no way negates his actions.

Now if you're referring to situational rape, such as occurs when a girl is intoxicated, I'm torn. I still feel that the rapist is 100% at fault. He chose to rape, period. There should be no mitigating circumstances just because the female in question was intoxicated or passed out.

Now, as for the girl....we need to use our common sense. As parents, we need to teach our girls about the very real dangers of being in certain situations. Getting drunk at a frat party isn't a wise choice. That doesn't mean the girl deserves to be raped.....but there's no doubt her actions made her more vulnerable. I agree with the above poster, who stated that rapists are predatory creatures who take the easiest prey.

However, making stupid choices does not negate the responsibility of the criminal. If I chose to walk down a dark alleyway known for a high rate of mugging, and I get mugged....well, I was stupid. But the mugger is still 100% responsible for what he/she did.

Originally posted by g146541

Originally posted by heyitsok

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by Starwise

 

Terrible things happen to all people, that is the sad fact.
The strong people get up every morning and put on their war face and do the task at hand.

I wouldn't wish PTSD on my worst enemy. Nobody who has had it or had a loved one who had it would ever say such a thing.

I'm stronger than most people I've ever met, yet I have had PTSD, and it is hell. The worst kind of hell.

Have had...
Got it cured did you?
PTSD has been around for a long time but it was pretty much limited to people who had seen killing up close and personal, now anyone can have PTSD...
Maybe because it comes with meds and a possible S.S.I. payday would be my guess.
Like I said, The strong people get up every morning and put on their war face and do the task at hand.
You are right though, I would not wish true PTSD on anyone.

The flashbacks have stopped, and I can sleep without drugs. The nightmares are still with me though, but not every night anymore; and I am still scanning all around me every time I leave the house, and everyone I see in the store or walking on the sidewalk could be this one person, even though I suspect he is dead. From a distance, every face looks like it might be his, and I cannot breathe when I see it. (And just so you know, I'm not talking about my sexual abuse here. I would rather be raped a hundred times than go through what I am referencing again.) But I quit drinking and I got myself off of most of the meds I initially needed.

Only took six years to get to this point. So yeah, all in all maybe I'm not cured, but I've made a lot of progress.

You don't know me, or what I have been through. Just like I don't know you, or where you are getting your opinion on this, or why you are being mean about it. Does it make you feel strong, to tell others they are just weak, even though you have no idea what happened to them? If that is where you get your supposed strength, then I'd rather be weak.

Honestly, you sound to me like someone who has been through some rough stuff yourself. If you ever want to talk about it, you can U2U me. I'm always willing to listen and help if I can.

reply to post by g146541


A women(in a marriage) can do that to the husband, and land him in jail. heck just divorce and move on. If you think your husband is very abusive.

reply to post by smyleegrl

However, making stupid choices does not negate the responsibility of the criminal. If I chose to walk down a dark alleyway known for a high rate of mugging, and I get mugged....well, I was stupid. But the mugger is still 100% responsible for what he/she did.

Agree.

reply to post by smyleegrl

However, making stupid choices does not negate the responsibility of the criminal. If I chose to walk down a dark alleyway known for a high rate of mugging, and I get mugged....well, I was stupid. But the mugger is still 100% responsible for what he/she did.

This is what i have been trying to say the entire time. RESPONSIBILITY for their own self. It does not ever gets voided. No one is defending the abusers but no way i would say the victim had 0% responsibility(although this can vary in some rapes, but not in most)

Actually, i did not know it was a friend-rape case thread, it seems like everything was mixed up.

reply to post by seeker11


I understand what you are saying, and I did not mean to sound like this will happen if you have no common sense. We keep hearing stories like yours that happen under pretty benign conditions, where the victim has no idea that they are in a sketchy situation.

Alcohol seems to be a fairly common denominator as well.

Usually the perpetrator is looking for a victim of opportunity. Or not even looking for a victim until a situation materializes that the perpetrator can manipulate to his/her advantage.

And lets be 100% honest GUYS, although I am sure this can/has happened to men, the VAST overwhelming numbers of victims have been woman, and will continue to be woman.

These types of things can happen out of the blue, where the victim had no idea what was going to happen to them given the situation.

Men want it all the time, lots of of it, with as many as we can bed down, two three at a time if allowed.
Think of a rapist as a thief. You know what happens when you set down your nice gold bracelet around a thief right? the thief see's an opportunity, then manipulates the situation to his/her advantage, then pockets the goods when no one is looking.

This may sound a bit ridiculous, but if I was a woman, I would be treating my body/sexual organ as a very very expensive piece of gold and diamond jewelry. I would assume that most men will want to steal it if given the opportunity, and when entering into any type of unknown situation, I would have someone guarding my gem, just in case I take my eye off the ball, as I drink and have fun.

Would you go anywhere with an expensive diamond bracelet and just leave it laying around ?

No I didn't think so.

~~~~ __/) ~~~~~~

Two teenage girls were charged with menacing today for allegedly threatening the victim in the Steubenville, Ohio, rape case via Twitter and Facebook, Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine announced. “Let me be clear,” DeWine said in a news release on his website announcing the arrests this evening. “Threatening a teenage rape victim will not be tolerated. If anyone makes a threat verbally or via the Internet, we will take it seriously, we will find you, and we will arrest you.”

teen girls charged against victim



THIS IS ALSO A HUGE PROBLEM! This is similar to what happened to me. Why do some turn on each other like this???

reply to post by lnfideI


I starred you for your sensitive and well thought out response. Thank you.

reply to post by heyitsok


Not trying to be mean here, but the only thing I ever sugar coat are some of my recipes.
I have not had a hard life, maybe because of how I view things.
I have, on more than a few occasions gone to work with gashes and broken bones, only because if I didn't, nobody would do it for me.
The human body and mind is capable of so much more than many think it is, just most never push the envelope.
But I laugh about the "bad" old days, it is who I am, it made me my happy screwed up self!
I am just a simple retired plumber with failing health.
I just have a weakness for looking at life and saying, "Come at me Bro"!!

Originally posted by heyitsok

Originally posted by g146541

Originally posted by heyitsok

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by Starwise

 

Terrible things happen to all people, that is the sad fact.
The strong people get up every morning and put on their war face and do the task at hand.

I wouldn't wish PTSD on my worst enemy. Nobody who has had it or had a loved one who had it would ever say such a thing.

I'm stronger than most people I've ever met, yet I have had PTSD, and it is hell. The worst kind of hell.

Have had...
Got it cured did you?
PTSD has been around for a long time but it was pretty much limited to people who had seen killing up close and personal, now anyone can have PTSD...
Maybe because it comes with meds and a possible S.S.I. payday would be my guess.
Like I said, The strong people get up every morning and put on their war face and do the task at hand.
You are right though, I would not wish true PTSD on anyone.

I am still scanning all around me every time I leave the house, and everyone I see in the store or walking on the sidewalk could be this one person, even though I suspect he is dead.

That may never go away. It is now built into your protective armor. After 20 years, I am very hyper vigilant about my location, time, parking spot, CHILDREN, hairstyle, clothing etc.......I carry mace, a whistle, gun, and am always on guard......

That may sound a little paranoid......but once you have been assaulted, it changes who you are and makes you very aware...nothing is wrong with being aware of your surroundings IMO!! Sometimes when I go to sleep at night I have nightmares too, and awaken with anger, but I am able to brush that off and move on with my day.

This is a crazy world we live in, and it only seems to get crazier and more surreal every day.......(((hugs)))

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by heyitsok

 

Not trying to be mean here, but the only thing I ever sugar coat are some of my recipes.

I have not had a hard life, maybe because of how I view things.
I have, on more than a few occasions gone to work with gashes and broken bones, only because if I didn't, nobody would do it for me.
The human body and mind is capable of so much more than many think it is, just most never push the envelope.
But I laugh about the "bad" old days, it is who I am, it made me my happy screwed up self!
I am just a simple retired plumber with failing health.
I just have a weakness for looking at life and saying, "Come at me Bro"!!

Then why are you judging me so harshly? You sound tough. I am tough too, even tougher for fighting through the pain. But jeez man, you're all but calling me a weak, whiny, drug-seeking SSI whore. What is up with that? I wish you could meet me in real life. If you knew me, you would respect me a lot more.

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by seeker11

 

The responsibility varies with situation and the individual relationship, if its a rape between spouse, the responsibility for both would be pretty high. I think having a mind set that you(general) had no responsibility is a bad advice, it would just make more victims.

However, i never said you did, the question was not directed at you.

What do you think? does the victim, should hold absolute 0% responsibility? would you go promote that mind set to young group?

edit on 3/21/2013 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

If the person said No, or was unconscious so default is NO, then the fault is 100%, I will repeat that, 100%, the rapists.

Originally posted by Starwise

Originally posted by heyitsok

Originally posted by g146541

Originally posted by heyitsok

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by Starwise

 

Terrible things happen to all people, that is the sad fact.
The strong people get up every morning and put on their war face and do the task at hand.

I wouldn't wish PTSD on my worst enemy. Nobody who has had it or had a loved one who had it would ever say such a thing.

I'm stronger than most people I've ever met, yet I have had PTSD, and it is hell. The worst kind of hell.

Have had...
Got it cured did you?
PTSD has been around for a long time but it was pretty much limited to people who had seen killing up close and personal, now anyone can have PTSD...
Maybe because it comes with meds and a possible S.S.I. payday would be my guess.
Like I said, The strong people get up every morning and put on their war face and do the task at hand.
You are right though, I would not wish true PTSD on anyone.

I am still scanning all around me every time I leave the house, and everyone I see in the store or walking on the sidewalk could be this one person, even though I suspect he is dead.

That may never go away. It is now built into your protective armor. After 20 years, I am very hyper vigilant about my location, time, parking spot, CHILDREN, hairstyle, clothing etc.......I carry mace, a whistle, gun, and am always on guard......

That may sound a little paranoid......but once you have been assaulted, it changes who you are and makes you very aware...nothing is wrong with being aware of your surroundings IMO!! Sometimes when I go to sleep at night I have nightmares too, and awaken with anger, but I am able to brush that off and move on with my day.

This is a crazy world we live in, and it only seems to get crazier and more surreal every day.......(((hugs)))

What a coincidence, I carry my phone, pepper spray, two knives, taser, always, and sometimes gun. Still jump at every noise. Heart races, can't breathe, feels like chains locked around my chest. Still have nightmares that people are trying to murder me, only in the nightmares it is usually a family member or other loved one, tough for me to shrug off, I wake up bawling.

I can't do this thread anymore. Sorry, but I gotta go. This whole thing is f****d up. People don't get it, and I'm finished trying to explain, because I don't want to effing talk about it anymore.

ETA: thank you though, and ((hugs)) back.

Originally posted by 00nunya00

Originally posted by MotherMayEye

Originally posted by 00nunya00

I agree with your first statement, and disagree with the *eventuality* of your second.

I agree that a woman who wears next to nothing and goes out and gets too drunk has the right to wake up hungover for her mistakes and nothing more. However, I think the latter part is where we start taking things too far just because some stupid moron made some ridiculous statement at some point in the past, and now we have twisted the statement in our own statement of rights.

If I put on a skirt that shows my thong and almost my crotch, and go downtown and get drunk to where I can't be trusted to drive, and park myself in a bar full of drunk frat boys, what am I expecting? What am I "asking for" in all senses of the word? It's like the old debate about where our first amendment rights end; do I have the right to go into an airport and scream "BOMB BOMB BOMB!!!" even though I'm not actually making any sort of threat, and expect not to be arrested for the impression I'm giving off? No.

Going into an airport and yelling "BOMB BOMB BOMB!!!" is a crime, even if it's not a real threat. So yes, you should expect to be arrested and you deserve to be arrested. Dressing in a bra and thong and going into a crowd of drunken men may likely be indecent exposure and you should expect to be arrested and you deserve to be arrested -- but you don't deserve to be raped.

But we know 1 in 4 women are raped in her lifetime so it should not surprise a woman that she is raped after dressing in a bra and thong and going into a crowd of drunken men. But she still has every right to do just that and NOT be raped. Rape is not an acceptable punishment for indecent exposure. As I said earlier, she should fear it, but she's not to blame for anything but having bad judgment.

You're fighting against a straw man there. Only your very last statement acknowledges what my entire post was about. She has the right to not be raped, but SHE SHOULD EXPECT IT. Period. End of story. Will I tell my daughter she has the right to walk half-naked and drunk in a crowd of frat boys and expect to not be raped? The answer to that lies in whether she wants to get raped or not. If no, then she should never, ever walk half-naked and drunk into a crowd of drunken men, nor have the mindset that she "has the right" to do that. I will make sure those men get the jail time they deserve if they do, but I won't congratulate her and call her a hero if she does, nor fill her head with the lie that she "has that right". Because she doesn't.

Strippers are not raped! Men behave fairly well in the clubs or are tossed quite severely out.

Many people have grown up skinny dipping and no one did any raping, period.

Many have gone to nude beaches, even raised their kids when young to be au natural, and not experienced any raping, or even out of place comments.

Actually, in societies where people are more repressed and objectify people with blame the victim and enforce dress codes, more rapes occur.

Those islands with all the semi nude inhabitants don't have much stats and consider us the perverts.

I don't agree with what you wrote.

reply to post by heyitsok


HUGS, I understand....Love sent your way

Alcohol had nothing to do with my experiences.

I started getting molested when I was four, raped when I was eight, and ran away by the time I was sixteen to escape the constant beatings and violations of my body. I landed in some pretty rough places, desperate to not have to go back to him, and I got dragged back several times before I left for college...but, yeah, I'm 100% that what he did to me for ALL THOSE YEARS wasn't my fault. It couldn't have been....if I thought otherwise, I'd have killed myself by now.

Jump forward a bit...I was attacked by three men, one an ex-boyfriend and the other two his friends, while sleeping over at the ex-boyfriend's sister's house...she was my friend and was asleep in another room and had no idea what happened til she found me the next morning, beaten and unable to move. I was just sleeping, got awakened by a punch to the face, duct tape on the mouth...and I really don't wanna go into the details further.

So, to all of you who say a victim's always gotta take a little responsibility for what happened...I'm so sorry, I see what you're saying and you're just so totally right! I should TOTALLY feel responsible for being born to a pedophile...that was so clearly my choice, never should've put myself in that position, should I, gentlemen? Also, I should've never slept over at a girlfriend's house...I should've known that my ex-boyfriend/her brother would break in with two of his friends and gang rape me to punish me for breaking up with him...that should've been obvious, I should've protected myself and known better!

Or maybe...I didn't have anything to do with it. Maybe I was just a kid being broken and destroyed by an adult. Maybe I was just a woman being ravaged by men who were monsters.

But Hell...what do I know? Clearly nothing. I guess I'll just have to be more careful in my life, right?

Edit: Seriously, the way some of you talk about this stuff, not giving any thought to whom might read it and what they may have been through and how you may make them feel is absolutely horrible. You deal with a delicate topic in an indelicate fashion and reading what you've said has left me feeling filthy again. I have PTSD and I deal with it all the time...but I've been following this thread and some of your responses have made me feel sick, some have made me feel lost like a little kid again, and some have made me feel things that there are no words for. So, go ahead and sit back and think that by your "logical", "rational", "reasonable" and "unemotional" discussion about the "truth" about rape and how victims should feel is going to make some positive difference...but let me tell you this: you aren't doing anything but hurting people like me that read your posts. So good job!

I'm not trying to sound mean or be mean or start an argument. I just want to know...where is your compassion, guys? Your empathy? Concerning this issue alone, are you putting eniugh thought into what you're writing and sending out into the world and who might see it before you hit that post button? If you haven't before now, I implore you to do so before you again approach this EXTREMELY delicate matter in such an indelicate way.

Everyone here needs to be aware and reminded. This is an open forum. Please understand that many people approach issues from a very objective and even detached view point. I don't think that anyone here is intentionally meaning to be insensitive. This is a very sensitive issue.

If any of us who have been a victim of this atrocity - begin to feel uncomfortable or find themselves becoming overly emotional, it is best for us and own healing to remove oneself from the thread. Instead, continue to u2u with members that you identify with and are sharing your experience with. Everyone is at different places with their own healing process.

This is a very delicate topic. Lets not start slinging mud.

Blessings and Peace,
Cirque

reply to post by jcutler12888


Im going to respond to you. This thread is very emotional for us, nonetheless for those of you who have had to endure this. Im so sorry for what happened to you and everyone else. I havent experienced rape firsg hand but my fiance was raped so I try to protect her and help her cope. Shes very strong and independent and I guarantee you all of you are so very strong for what you have all gone through and being able to live on. Rape is horrible period and its never the victims fault, NEVER. All I was trying to say was that rape is going to occur, sickos will always be out there so people need to take steps like not drinking themselves unconscious at a random party which ive seen first hand . Please dont think I mean this is every case, its not by any means, but it does happen a lot and thats all I was trying to make clear.

reply to post by jcutler12888


Let me also add I admire you and everyone else here who has had the strength to open up about this. If I could be of any help to you or anyone please let me know by any means. I finished three tours in Iraq to become a paramedic here and one who the hardest things I have to see is people being sexually abused. You may not be a christian and I dont push beliefs on anyone but if you wouldnt mind id like to pray for u and everyone else here for further strength and courage as yiu all have shown you have it already.

I never hear women speaking of stopping the large amount of rapes against men in prison.