E-Cigs second hand "smoke"? Safe or not for the non smoker?

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Big voluminous fantastic clouds of vapor with just the right amount of nicotine.......

Sounds like a good hookah smoke. And really, the same thing, except the shisha is also filtered through water to also cool it down.

But thick plumes of vapour, flavour and a good hookah session lasts over an hour.

I find cigarettes to be like fast food in the bigger picture. Pointless, tasteless, addictive and no sooner you put one out you want another one...

i was a smoker for 7 years and they helped me quit .

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


Atomized Nicotine is Not a Smoke or a Vapor , you Fears are Unfounded.........

...perhaps an invisible unproveable entity which rejects any gods has created the ecigs as a conspiratorial plan to undermine your previously declared faith?
I don't see the problem myself, but I see the problem you often have with anyone else in the world who doesn't believe in the same unprovable things as you do.
What a scandal hey, but hopefully you can save the world and share your peer reviewed studies which show the harm from 2nd hand vapour which has allegedly damaged humanity?

...I guess if you didn't have such a previously defined blind faith based outlook on life I would be drawn towards believing your claims, but as someone who appears to be a religious zealot in public, I shall dismiss it as just silly rantings.
Sorry if it is not something you like to hear, I'm just being honest, as you are so insultingly obvious at times here on ATS.

I hope you didnt have a coffee while you were there at the food court, because the steam rising off it is not much different to the vapour that is exhaled when using e-cigs. Scarey stuff indeed. All the liberal/progressive claims you make about yourself become self-evident as fraudulent when you say smokers "deserve" to be outside, and when you continue to ignore the evidence in your own "peer reviewed" study which proves the opposite of what you are complaining about.

I bought an e-cig about a month and a half ago. I mostly vape with Zero mg e-juice - which I mix myself. 50/50 Vegetable Glycerin, Propolyene Glycol, and a few of drops of food flavouring. I keep one ecig filled with an 2-4mg e-juice to stave off those cravings when I cant vape past them with the zero mg. Until I bought my e-cigs I was a 25-30 cigs a day smoker for 20 years. Not only will e-cigs be an improvement to my health, but by changing to e-cigs I am actually reducing the overall polluting chemicals that I contribute to our atmosphere.

Ive tried every pharma quit product under the sun to try and give up analogue cigarettes, and none of them have worked but theyve cost me alot of money - sometimes just as much as smoking itself. The best I have ever managed on pharma quit aids is about 2 weeks. This is all part of the design of pharma-quit products - they arent really meant to work, just keep you in a cycle of coming back to try a different (expensive) product. But I wonder if the OP wouldve complained if I had been sitting the next table with a pharmaceutical inhaler? Wouldve he even noticed? You only noticed the e-cigs because they are a novelty and you saw vapour being exhaled - no different to the steam from your coffee remember? In fact I vape Juicy Fruit and Marshmallow flavours ... basically steamed Juicy Fruit breath - I hope you've never BURPED in PUBLIC because the second hand stench of your lunch breath is not only inconsiderate, but toxic as well! Yes dude, that's how ridiculous you sound.

It is a fact the govt makes a lot of money in taxes from real cigarettes. They make a hell of a lot more in taxes from the sale of cigarettes, than the money they spend on the medical costs for smokers - not to mention the money they get from Tobacco company lobbyists. Do you really think the govt has any interest in stopping ppl smoking? They are raking it in by keeping ppl addicted to tobacco. If you are a smoker, e-cigs are the ultimate anti-authoritarian F.U. to the powers that be. Does it make sense yet, why they might want to demonise e-cigs ... a product that is showing very promising results in studies - much more than traditional pharma quit aids?? A product that has the potential of helping MILLIONS to quit?

In a study published online ahead of print in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine, researchers found that 31 percent of respondents reported having quit smoking six months after first purchasing an electronic cigarette.

The average six-month abstinence rate for traditional nicotine replacement products, such as nicotine patches or gum, is between 12 and 18 percent.

The researchers conducted an online survey of 222 first-time purchasers of electronic cigarettes, also known as e-cigarettes, from a leading electronic cigarette distributor. Of those who were not smoking at six months, 34.3 percent reported not using electronic cigarettes or any nicotine-containing products. Almost 67 percent of respondents reported having reduced the number of cigarettes they smoked after using electronic cigarettes.

sph.bu.edu...

Almost 67% cut-down!! 31% quit altogether! Twice as much as pharma quit aids. And there are more studies coming out all the time which are showing even more promising results again - even with people totally unmotivated to quit.

BTW I've never had a license and I ride a solar powered electric bicycle because I dont want to be complicit in my govts resource wars for oil, and the dumping of our uranium waste on foreign lands. I dont mind if people want to live in denial and drive cars, but as already pointed out in this thread, I hope you are not a gas-guzzler OP.





The Economist - No Smoke, No Fire www.economist.com...

.

The only things that secondhand vapor made from already approved and legal, trusted ingredients (read that as made outside of China and their pals at the FDA who turn a blind eye) are harmful to are big pharma and the related medical industrial complex, the sin tax, and to a lesser degree, big tobacco. It's both scaring them sh*tless and exposing their very real hypocrisy all in one fell swoop. Vaping has high positive health benefits for billions. But that is not acceptable to...well you know who.

It is alternately alarming and slightly amusing to watch the machinations unfold and their "rationale" about how this is dangerous and their attempts to outlaw, regulate, and stop it.

There is no secondhand "smoke." It is no more dangerous that the breath expelled by billions of people into the air daily. The attempts to ban it as if it was smoke are ludicrous. This is a total non-issue, but certainly something to watch.

Originally posted by rickymouse
Propylene glycol is one of my worst nightmares. I have to watch shampoos to make sure I do not have one with it. I can wash my hands in battery acid without burning and hardly ever get a rash but propylene glycol gives me a rash. Ethylene glycol doesn't even give me a rash on the skin. Methyl Ethyl Ketone doesn't bother me except if I breath it too long, then it gives me a headache.

Isn't it weird...i get a simialr itchy rash when i use soap or when my wife doesn't double rinse the laundry.

But i'm perfectly fine with Propylene Glycol. Others only have to open the window, breathe in grass pollen and they've had it..itchy throat, sore eyes and the rest of it.

I'm fine with pollen...horses for courses really mate isn't it.

I've vaped and used eliquid based on plain PG, PG/VG and plain VG (vegetable glycerin) for about two and a half years now, so has my wife. The first week we used PG based juice, we both had a mild reaction to it. It was basically a slightly irritated throat, and a slight rash around my neck, a little like mild heat rash.

Only lasted about a week. It's very common among vapers who switch from Tobacco to eCigs. It's often reported on forums, by almost everyone who's a new vaper.

99% of the time (or most of the time), the rash and tingly throat go away in about a week or two...some people discover they have an allergy to PG or VG though, (although allergy to VG is rarer than with PG) and then switch to using VG based eliquid exclusively, avoiding the PG based ones. (most juice is bought in any combination of PG / VG mixes)

As to the OP...thanks for posting.

Here's the thing. The vapour from eCigs isn't smoke...this seems obvious, but many people don't realise that the stuff that looks a lot like tobacco smoke coming out of an eCig...is not smoke, it is water. Plain water vapour, with a touch of flavour molecules mixed in and a few nicotine molecules, after the majority of it has been absorbed by the man or woman vaping it.

The quantity of nicotine in the vapour is very small. You'd probably get more nicotine into your system (the Human brain HAS nicotine receptors waiting for a fix of nicotine) by eating fruits or vegetables, especially tomatoes, which have relatively high amounts of nicotine in them naturally.

And nicotine based chemicals are sprayed on crops etc..it's probably a good bet that you'd ingest more nicotine in your food, than you would with 'second hand vapour' from an eCig.

Don't forget that a vapour is dense, it's much heavier than tobacco smoke, and dissipates MUCH quicker than smoke and doesn't linger like smoke does. It falls and thats it.

Don't worry about the vapour, it won't hurt you...cigarette smoke on the other hand can kill you.

NM

I know that around where I live the malls and many of the stores and most theaters do not allow e-cigs at all. Their reasons are their own for the most part but they have told my friend how uses one of these that they received a lot of complaints from others and decided it best just to ban the use of them except for in designated smoking areas. Also the airlines do not allow them to be used on the plane or even in non smoking areas of the airport. It is true that there are fewer restrictions on them than conventional combustion smoking but they are still not accepted in many public spaces.

Also they are getting imported from areas where they are also loaded with other ingredients banned in our area not allowed in them. This has a lot of mall operators and theater operators concerned about them.

reply to post by MysterX


I have a GRAS allergy. I'm only allergic to things that the FDA says are "generally recognized as safe". You do understand that Generally recognized as safe does not mean it is safe. Every single person on this earth is allergic or has metabolic issues with something.

Today marks three months clean from smoke, toke, and ethanol. Cold turkey since April 6th.

I decided to treat myself with an ecig about 8 weeks ago. I noticed increased dehydration, and sore throat. It seems the chemicals effect people differently. I'm training for the Texas Spartan Beast in December, and just gave up the ecig because I think it messes with my lungs a bit. There's definitely some addiction to it. Experiencing moderate withdrawal symptoms, but nothing I can't handle.

As for second hand issues. Puhleeaze. It's much better than regular cigarettes, and nothing much to add to the already polluted air.

Originally posted by QuantriQueptidez
I noticed increased dehydration, and sore throat. .

If you vape make sure you drink lots of water because the PG will dry you out.

And good for you for quitting!

reply to post by Yngvarr


My water intake increased from ~ 3 liters to ~ 5 liters.

It's now gone back to ~ 3 liters.

I became a vaper about two months ago after a life-long pack a day habit. Since each cartridge is approximately a pack of cigs, I am now about a pack every two to three weeks.

I don't feel the need to puff as often, and I feel so much better not smoking.

Even when I was a smoker I found it amazingly rude when people blew smoke in my direction. I always did whatever I could to ensure my exhaled smoke never went near anyone else's face. Now, it is ten times as offensive when clueless people blow smoke in my face. If I wanted that to happen, I would still be smoking.

That said, if anyone wants to blow the exhalation from their e-cigs at me, I honestly don't care. No smell, no greasy smoke, no ash, etc, and usually a very pleasant smell from their cartridges, depending on the flavor they smoke. I am personally most fond of the vanilla varieties.

I am not allowed to smoke at work unless I go outside with the smokers, and that is so that customers don't get upset with my "smoke" and with the fact that they aren't allowed to smoke inside. I am ok with that, but usually only take a hit or two and then get back inside so I can get away from the second hand smoke.

If more companies would just allow it, maybe more smokers would switch to vaping and we would get healthier as a whole. Big Tobacco won't allow that to happen though, and neither with the politicians in whose pockets they sit.

I have a nephew that will have such a bad asthmatic attack if he's close to anyone wearing perfume he'll end up in the hospital.
Can we ban perfumes????

I know, scapegoating is much more fun, isn't it?

reply to post by angrymartian


In my area, it's hit or miss on which businesses allow ecig use in them. You get your answer by observing/asking staff about it. My local hospital doesn't seem to find them a health hazard. My husband had a hospital stay last month, and when I asked where the relocated smoking area outside was now (I assumed that's where they'd want me to go) the head nurse just laughed and said the hospital's policy is that since no studies have found anything harmful exhaled, ecigs can be used in the building. She told me I could puff on mine right there if my husband's temporary roomie had no objections (he did not) I was pretty surprised to see a couple of patients sitting in the lounge admiring the view with their ecigs later on.
Regardless, it still felt a little Twilight Zone-y puffing indoors there, I kept expecting to get yelled at for it.

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein

Results During the smoking session, 19 cigarettes were smoked, administering 11.4mg of nicotine
(according to cigarette pack information). During the e-CIG session, 1.6 ml of liquid was consumed, administering
17.6mg of nicotine. During the smoking session we found: TOC=6.66mg/m3, toluene=1.7 μg/m3,
xylene=0.2 μg/m3, CO=11 mg/m3, nicotine=34 μg/m3, acrolein=20 μg/ml and PAH=9.4 μg/m3. No glycerin,
propylene glycol and NOx were detected after the smoking session. During the e-CIG session we found: TOC=0.73 mg/m3 and glycerin=72 μg/m3. No toluene, xylene, CO, NOx, nicotine, acrolein or PAHs were detected on room air during the e-CIG session.

Read the whole study here.... clearstream.flavourart.it...

So this above CLEARLY states that there were multiple things found in the air after the test was done.....

FINALLY some actual proof that your e-cigs are tainting the air of us who don't want it in the air!!

Hey... Do you know TOC stands for? I don't, and haven't read the report yet, but it looks like you misinterperted the findings of this study. If TOC = Total Organic Carbon, then only 2 things were found in the test chamber - carbon and glycerine.

It sounds to me like your wife got up to fast, or is having something else happening, but it isn't the e-cigs, as that study concluded that no nicotine was left-over after using an e-cig. Perhaps you missed where it says

No toluene, xylene, CO, NOx, nicotine, acrolein or PAHs were detected on room air during the e-CIG session

But since it seems like you already have dug your pitchfork out, and have a few torches lit, as well as are trying to assemble a mob, you shouldn't let all that energy go to waste, however misdirected it is due to poor reading comprehension. Thus i propose that you take on something that actually affects you every single day.

Car exhaust - especially diesel.

www.cancer.org...

Also - is your wife anemic?

reply to post by Evil_Santa

Hey... Do you know TOC stands for? I don't, and haven't read the report yet, but it looks like you misinterperted the findings of this study. If TOC = Total Organic Carbon, then only 2 things were found in the test chamber - carbon and glycerine.

You are correct -- TOC stands for total organic carbon in this case. I'd be curious to know what compounds the 0.73 mg/m3 of TOC included, given that the only reported organic compound from the e-cig vapor was glycerine at several orders of magnitude lower.

The fact is, eCigs have undoubtably ALREADY saved many lives that would have been lost or at least made people very ill due to tobacco smoking related diseases and illness.

In the UK alone, there are now well over a million people who have switched their nicotine delivery method from tobacco smoking to eCigs and vaping instead.

And the huge majority of those, at least in the thousands of forum threads devoted to vaping i've read over the last few years, feel and perform much better since they have switched to eCigs, myself and my wife included.

More energy, less depression, more stamina (in and out of the bedroom ) , clearer complexion, clearer thinking and our home, our car and we ourselves don't stink anymore...well, the wife does, but not of ciggys!

The difference is amazing, and only takes a few weeks to a month or so to purge your body of all the toxins present in tobacco smoking...a lot of what happens to your body when you stop smoking and switch to eCigs, almost all of what happens to your body actually is as a result of the body going through a detox of the accumulated years of poisoning by smoking...people will find they may get a spotty, acne like outbreak somewhere on their body, and they will be coughing up phlegm (brown gunge) from the lungs for several months after quitting the tobacco...this is your body clearing the crud that's built up in it's lungs and tissues.

The poisons leech out through the pores in the skin, which causes a rash of spots like acne...the lungs clear themselves of built up tars and toxins too.

The whole process lasts only a month or two and then you're clear of the tobacco poisons.

As for people thinking PG or VG is dangerous...it isn't..unless you decided to drink gallons of it or tried to breath it!. It's ubiquitous, literally in many, many types of product, toiletries, foods and drinks, toothpaste, cleaners, medicines (for sore throats no less) and in many other types..too many to list.

It's also beginning to be used as a disinfectant and bacterialogical suppressant in operating theatres in some hospitals, due to it's strong anti-bacterial properties. It's turned into vapour and pumped into the operating theatres.

Tests have been carried out on it for decade upon decade, almost a century, and not only has it been found to be harmless to human health and the environment, in lab tests, managed to keep a group of rats exposed to an influenza virus alive who were forced to breathe concentrated PG vapour...another group of rats that were infected with the influenza virus, but not made to breathe PG vapour all died.

Another (very dubious) test was carried out on schoolchildren back in the 1930's...Vapour was pumped into their classrooms with no ill effects recorded at all (very dodgy experiment i'm sure you'd agree)

One thing to keep in mind when thinking about eCigs, is that they are not a 'quit device'...they are an alternative, very much healthier and cleaner, 21st century nicotine delivery system.

Vapers have simply switched from filthy and poisonous (and deadly) tobacco smoking as a nicotine delivery system, to one...that isn't.

Nicotine is also not dangerous, unless you decided to drink a bottle of eliquid of course! Nicotine is now being prescribed to children and others...yes, prescribed as a medicine, primarily as an appetite suppressant in cases of obesity, but it has also been shown to be beneficial in other areas.

It's also present naturally in many vegetables we all routinely eat. 10g of Eggplant for example is estimated to contain as much nicotine as 3 hours worth of exposure to passive tobacco smoke...but obviously without the toxins and tars, carcinogens and mutagens that second hand smoke has in it.

The problem with people and companies banning their employees from vaping is ignorance, plain and simple.

People are distrustful of anything new...eCigs are no exception to this, even though they've been out for quite a number of years now, people just don't know much about them and assume they are producing smoke like a cigarette instead of just water vapour. Once people understand eCigs are literal life savers, and are no harm to those who use them or those who are around them...they will become more accepting of them.

Good luck if you're considering making the switch from tobacco to eCigs...you'll start to wonder why you didn't do it years ago. But remember to do your research properly...there are crap eCigs and there are 'Rolls Royce' quality eCigs...a good place to learn about this is eCig websites and forums.

If it's ok with the mods here are a couple of links to some good forums with friendly and helpful members and staff that are happy to help out a new vaper with advice and links etc.

(Mods, if adding links is not ok, just delete the links portion of this post, ta)

UK ECig Forum

USA Ecig Forum

Good luck.